Best for NE groomer and NE chop

[KingGrump]

It’s not the ski in itself.

 

[James]

Honestly, this like a broken record. We could just say, “listen to track 2”.
Then the other part is holding back the tide of well meaning, but completely wrong, advice if one wants to improve quickly. All of a sudden, 92mm progressive mount twin tips are in the mix! Hey, they carve.
Yeah, a 146mm wide Liberty can carve with the right pilot.

Not to be one of the “FIS slalom skis cured childhood cancer and solved world hunger” crowd, but…

You’ve made such progress!
Another piece in the understanding…
Those skis won’t do the curing, but they free up so much time in the “what ski should I get to learn to ski?” search, that the person has time in the lab to find the cure.

Once you learn to ski it, you pretty much answer these questions yourself, and choices
are much more subtle.
We are on page 11, and the OP is still waffling and headed to the usual suspects…

 

[Crank]

It's generally kind of hard to demo skis before your boots are dialed in. Is there a reason you're trying to solve both problems simultaneously?

Not sure where you're skiing, but I know Aspen East near Killington (and probably other shops at other mountains) used to demo Head Supershapes and other similar performance carving skis. If you can call around to shops near wherever you ski, you may find options that are more specialized than the narrow all mountain skis you've tried so far. I believe the analogous Volkl line is the Deacon (the non-foam core rental versions).

?

No not really questioning; you are doing plenty of that. But if you are responding to me... I'm a guy who buys skis from a neighbor's moving sale for $10 and slaps a a pair of bindings I had laying around on them. You're alos making your boot buy more complex than it needs to be, fine with that.

Carry on and good luck in your searches.

 

[GA49]

It's generally kind of hard to demo skis before your boots are dialed in. Is there a reason you're trying to solve both problems simultaneously?

Not sure where you're skiing, but I know Aspen East near Killington (and probably other shops at other mountains) used to demo Head Supershapes and other similar performance carving skis. If you can call around to shops near wherever you ski, you may find options that are more specialized than the narrow all mountain skis you've tried so far. I believe the analogous Volkl line is the Deacon (the non-foam core rental versions).

Was waiting on the Deacon 80s to come back to the tent yesterday, but ran out of time.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

No not really questioning; you are doing plenty of that. But if you are responding to me... I'm a guy who buys skis from a neighbor's moving sale for $10 and slaps a a pair of bindings I had laying around on them. You're alos making your boot buy more complex than it needs to be, fine with that.

Was responding to @GreenAthlete49 sorry for confusion

 

[GA49]

Honestly, this like a broken record. We could just say, “listen to track 2”.
Then the other part is holding back the tide of well meaning, but completely wrong, advice if one wants to improve quickly. All of a sudden, 92mm progressive mount twin tips are in the mix! Hey, they carve.
Yeah, a 146mm wide Liberty can carve with the right pilot.


You’ve made such progress!
Another piece in the understanding…
Those skis won’t do the curing, but they free up so much time in the “what ski should I get to learn to ski?” search, that the person has time in the lab to find the cure.

Once you learn to ski it, you pretty much answer these questions yourself, and choices
are much more subtle.
We are on page 11, and the OP is still waffling and headed to the usual suspects…

I'm picking up demos on Wednesday, will see what they have in stock and will see if they have any skis in this range. I think I saw some Deacons last time I was in there... Not sure if this is the same category.

I'm very interested in trying this category of ski that is recommended by many of you but want to demo first. I'll be heading Killington, Mt Snow and maybe even Stowe over the next 3-7 weeks so if not now, maybe one of those locations.

Another questions (related). I'm 220 now, will be 190 next winter (I swear ) ...length of ski range...any recommendations? Seems to be a lot of variance in advice. The warmer the weather, I think the longer, so I'm included to think around 180, but on solid winter snow, smaller than that seems to be good.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Honestly, this like a broken record. We could just say, “listen to track 2”.
Then the other part is holding back the tide of well meaning, but completely wrong, advice if one wants to improve quickly. All of a sudden, 92mm progressive mount twin tips are in the mix! Hey, they carve.
Yeah, a 146mm wide Liberty can carve with the right pilot.


You’ve made such progress!
Another piece in the understanding…
Those skis won’t do the curing, but they free up so much time in the “what ski should I get to learn to ski?” search, that the person has time in the lab to find the cure.

Once you learn to ski it, you pretty much answer these questions yourself, and choices
are much more subtle.
We are on page 11, and the OP is still waffling and headed to the usual suspects…

One can go effing nuts trying to find that “perfect’ ski for given snow/mountain, try ski after ski after ski and they will still go nowhere. The differences between ski A and ski B that have similar dimensions but come from different manufacturers are MUCH MUCH smaller than their similarities.

And yeah, if one can properly ski SL or similar short turning narrow carvers, they can ski whatever. I’ve been thinking a lot these days when dealing with bad snow nd crowds. What would be the perfect ski? Well turns out there is no such thing. It is not the ski, it is how you ski it.

 

[GA49]

So here's what comes up in the search

1. 2023 Salomon S/Force Fx.76
2. 2023 Salomon S/Force Ti.80
3. 2023 Blossom Numero Uno N*1 SC
4. 2023 Head Shape E-V8
5. 2023 Blossom AM77
6. 2023 Kästle PX81
7. 2023 Lusti MP 77

The Shape E-V8 seem pretty good and a lot of people recommend. I want to make sure it's forgiving in the area of being in the backset at speed or steep pitch, usually both and that I'm not constantly getting hooked up for being in the back seat accidently.

 

[ARL67]

If I were OP with a lack of equipment testing/owning experience, I'd research like hell ( SkiTalk, SkiEssentials, Blister ) and wait for end of sales ( 30% off or better ) and take a flyer on one of my researched top-3. One really can't go wrong with the likes of a Fischer RC One 86 GT, Deacon 84, Experience 82ti ( and others ). Get some miles on any of them and use that as a baseline to move forward or expand the quiver.

 

[Tom K.]

the narrower skis definitely are easier on my creaky old knees.

QFT

When it’s narrow, even cat tracks are fun gliding, tipping, learning.

And again, QFT

2023 Head Shape E-V8

At 220 pounds, I'm going to say you at least might be too big for these. I'm 200 and own the V10 and it isn't terribly hard to find its limits. They are great fun for slowing things down and "family" skiing, though.

 

[James]

Another questions (related). I'm 220 now, will be 190 next winter (I swear ) ...length of ski range...any recommendations? Seems to be a lot of variance in advice. The warmer the weather, I think the longer, so I'm included to think around 180, but on solid winter snow, smaller than that seems to be good.

There’s no set length, despite whatever google search you do says. Depends on the ski and what you want to do.

Some skis do vary greatly in flex between sizes.

 

[François Pugh]

Was waiting on the Deacon 80s to come back to the tent yesterday, but ran out of time.

I'm picking up demos on Wednesday, will see what they have in stock and will see if they have any skis in this range. I think I saw some Deacons last time I was in there... Not sure if this is the same category.

I'm very interested in trying this category of ski that is recommended by many of you but want to demo first. I'll be heading Killington, Mt Snow and maybe even Stowe over the next 3-7 weeks so if not now, maybe one of those locations.

Another questions (related). I'm 220 now, will be 190 next winter (I swear ) ...length of ski range...any recommendations? Seems to be a lot of variance in advice. The warmer the weather, I think the longer, so I'm included to think around 180, but on solid winter snow, smaller than that seems to be good.

So here's what comes up in the search

1. 2023 Salomon S/Force Fx.76
2. 2023 Salomon S/Force Ti.80
3. 2023 Blossom Numero Uno N*1 SC
4. 2023 Head Shape E-V8
5. 2023 Blossom AM77
6. 2023 Kästle PX81
7. 2023 Lusti MP 77

The Shape E-V8 seem pretty good and a lot of people recommend. I want to make sure it's forgiving in the area of being in the backset at speed or steep pitch, usually both and that I'm not constantly getting hooked up for being in the back seat accidently.

I spent a day on Deacon 80s on soft snow, a nice smooth ski, much better than say Deacon 79. It will handle pretty much any snow condition, and will carve fine if you know how to carve.
Plus:
It has some rocker so it will be forgiving of errors;
Higher speed limit than other intermediate skis (e.g. Speezone 12 (not 14, not 10)) - I didn't get a chance to really push it though;
Wide enough and long enough turn radius to make skiing off the groomed runs in soft snow noticeably easier than on a narrow carver.
Minus:
That rocker disconnects the tips from the snow on a hard surface - so less feedback for learning, and not as gratifying as a full-on full-camber traditional carver.
Not as eager to tip into a turn on a hard surface as a narrow (around 70 mm) ski;

220 (I assume you mean 220 lbs) and talking about "at speed"
Get the longest length whatever ski you choose comes in.
Forgetabout the V-8; not stiff enough to turn you with any real gusto.

 

[markojp]

Another questions (related). I'm 220 now, will be 190 next winter (I swear ) ...length of ski range...any recommendations? Seems to be a lot of variance in advice. The warmer the weather, I think the longer, so I'm included to think around 180, but on solid winter snow, smaller than that seems to be good.

You're over thinking this by a couple orders of magnitude, and not all advice is created equal. You've got industry people here helping, and others affirming their own choices that have little to do with your needs.

In my life, I've NEVER heard of picking a ski length related to temperature. Terrain maybe, and most certainly making a ski type choice for snow conditions, but not temperature. Base structure and temperature, sure, but not length. My 175 carving skis will see everything from -20f this past Jan to 65f this coming July.

 

[dbostedo]

Another questions (related). I'm 220 now, will be 190 next winter (I swear ) ...length of ski range...any recommendations? Seems to be a lot of variance in advice. The warmer the weather, I think the longer, so I'm included to think around 180, but on solid winter snow, smaller than that seems to be good.

My advice? Stop worrying about things so much. I went from 225 to 180 ish over the last 18 months and have been skiing my same skis in the same lengths and still loving them. You're digging in really, really, really hard on the analysis. If you enjoy way over thinking things (and some folks do online) then great.

Otherwise, pick something narrowish and ski it a bunch in all conditions. It will still be fun and ALL of your skis will seem like better skis as you get better.

(Did i post this same rant already? I feel like I posted this already... )

 

[zircon]

I the end there's a net loss of $$ of course but worth getting the right feeling skis.

Keep in mind that your tastes will change over time and the right feeling skis now might hold you back, or the right feeling skis later might punish mistakes now.

I'm not blindly purchasing a ski in a list without trying it out first

This is going to be an issue, as you may have noticed. Depending on the shop, the right tool for your job is difficult to come by in a demo fleet. People that buy them tend to already know what they want. Demos are often treated like fancy rentals, and with those customers the freeride lite all mountain segment pays the bills.

Fwiw I've seen an ex-demo Laser AX (not your size) for sale at Northern Ski Works in Killington the last few times I was there. Maybe they'll have something narrow and carvy in their current demo fleet. If you ever make it down to Massachusetts, the on-mountain shop at Wachusett definitely has a full range of hard snow skis and you can swap out as much as you want during the time window you pay for.

When it’s narrow, even cat tracks are fun gliding, tipping, learning.

James is wise. Get on a flat-to-uphill cat track on some narrow carving skis. Barely moving. No skating allowed. Now now go from railroad tracks to partial turns to big swoopy semicircles (once you merge with a bigger trail) using just the rebound from your skis. Special kind of magic.

 

[Brad J]

I think what the OP should do is not listen to the narrow ski guys ( I am one of them) keep on demo ski’s that are too wide and purchase one of them , he won’t accomplish his stated goal but he probably will find a ski he is comfortable with. The problem is he will be in the same boat only with another pair of ski’s that can’t/won’t get him where he wants to end up. IMO demoing a good carver most likely is not going to really click without a lot of practice and or lessons. Unfortunately it takes a lot of effort to get to the level he is looking for , the ski’s are just a piece of the pie.

 

[Crank]

Maybe he's thinking warm temps = soft snow. But the soft snow that a lengthier ski is called for is blower pow a couple feet deep and then you can still ski fine with less length it's just a little more sensitive to what I think you guys call fore/aft pressure?

 

[markojp]

Maybe he's thinking warm temps = soft snow. But the soft snow that a lengthier ski is called for is blower pow a couple feet deep and then you can still ski fine with less length it's just a little more sensitive to what I think you guys call fore/aft pressure?

Powder skis generally can be longer. All Mtn, in the middle, Piste skis, shorter inless they're event specific race skis.

 

[GA49]

What do you all think of the Elan Wingman 78? (they have 2 versions at 78 I believe)

 

[Marker]

Fwiw I've seen an ex-demo Laser AX (not your size) for sale at Northern Ski Works in Killington the last few times I was there. Maybe they'll have something narrow and carvy in their current demo fleet. If you ever make it down to Massachusetts, the on-mountain shop at Wachusett definitely has a full range of hard snow skis and you can swap out as much as you want during the time window you pay for.

What size AX? I ski a Hero Elite LT in 183 cm on firm days and have occasionally taken them through the bumps, but an intrigued by these and the Blossom AM77 that is the new darling of SkiTalk.