Blister recommends wide rockered skis for beginners

[Tony S]

I was thinking about that today during a ride. And it came to me. The cycling analog of proper high speed carving is Tom Pidcock, stage 12 of the Tour 2022.

Just look at this:





I was like:

Just so you know what it's like trying to follow cycling here.

 

[tromano]

When I see people skiing like this I think what they are really doing is just speed checking themselves because they don't know how to cut speed with a proper turn. Nothing wrong with it if they are having fun and that's how they like to ski.

Skiing like this guy definitely conserves energy vs. making dynamic carves. Maybe he's just tired after a long season.

 

[James]

He took a lesson years ago and learned to pivot a flat ski to a steering angle and then obtain minimal directional change by partially engaging his edges, while controlling his speed as needed by blending in a bit of hockey stop (more edge engagement, but over-steered so still no real arcing a turn) to the minimal turn. That's what he expects skiing is, and expects that's all he will be able to do, since he is no FIS star athlete. He doesn't know it's broke, so he is not going to fix it. What he does works fine for him as it meets his expectations. He doesn't even know what he's missing.
Just my opinion though.

Years ago I thought the cure for this was steep pitch. They’d be forced to turn across the hill. Then I watched at Sunday River on White Heat as people did the exact same thing on very firm snow. They just got used to somewhat higher speed and steepness.

Doesn’t matter what skis, though stiffer is better. Width, rocker- whatever within reason. I never got to see the guy with the 146mm, 190something Liberty’s ski on firm snow. His choice of ski for touring Eastern resorts he told me.

Stages of ice skiing-
Ride the slide
Guide the slide
Hide the slide

 

[LiquidFeet]

Stages of ice skiing-
Ride the slide
Guide the slide
Hide the slide

That's refrigerator magnet worthy.

 

[James]

Stages of ice skiing-
Ride the slide
Guide the slide
Hide the slide

That's refrigerator magnet worthy.

Might be Terry Barbour.
I heard it on a podcast.

 

[KingGrump]

Then I watched at Sunday River on White Heat as people did the exact same thing on very firm snow. They just got used to somewhat higher speed and steepness.

If they ever stop the brutal grooming. Most of those skiers will learn to fly.

 

[James]

If they ever stop the brutal grooming. Most of those skiers will learn to fly.

Landing?

 

[KingGrump]

Landing?

You ever seen an intermediate doing a high speed skid into a large bump?

Houston, we have lift off.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Just so you know what it's like trying to follow cycling here.
View attachment 179831

Awww...that sucks.

VPN?

 

[FreddieG]

IMHO, and after teaching countless "never ever," or newer skiers, i think that the Blister team is absolutely going "bonkers"! I would never put a beginner on a rocker/wide ski !
They need to find their center/balanced position and be able to use the skis at an angle for wedges and such, which is easier to do in a narrow ski than a " fattie"!
And where do we take the beginners: green groomed runs! Would not dream of taking beginner skier anywhere else!
Thanks.

 

[Tony S]

I was thinking about that today during a ride. And it came to me. The cycling analog of proper high speed carving is Tom Pidcock, stage 12 of the Tour 2022.

You know, I was thinking about this. It's interesting how the world of competitive road cycling has totally embraced the value of an MTB background in its stars. And vice versa, I guess. The prevalence of crossover stars like Pidcock was just mentioned in the Cervelo thread. Not at all like skiing.

 

[Tony Storaro]

You know, I was thinking about this. It's interesting how the world of competitive road cycling has totally embraced the value of an MTB background in its stars. And vice versa, I guess. The prevalence of crossover stars like Pidcock was just mentioned in the Cervelo thread. Not at all like skiing.

Yeah, Sagan too. Not to talk about cyclocross where WvA and MvdP were superstars before moving to road. MTB helps greatly in getting better at bike handling. Just think about Sagan on one side and Primoz Roglic on the other. I like Roglic very much but this guy crashes way too often. On the other hand Sagan is a magician on the bike.

Skiing, dunno, Marcus Caston looks pretty handy on groomers but at elite competition level is probably not that common.

BTW, speaking about Marcus Caston and because it was often mentioned in this thread how it isn't necessary to ski technically correctly because the boys just want to have fun. I can accept that only in cases like Marcus. Haven't seen so much carving on the inside ski. Is it technically correct-no, does the dude have FUN? Hell yeah. Is he a joy to watch? Absolutely.
So point is, if one does not want to ski properly at least try to ski like Marcus. This is fun. Skidding around and Z turning isn't. It is exhausting and is painful to watch.

 

[charlier]

Let’s step back a bit. To clarify, it seems to me that Blister’s definition of a beginner is not a never ever or 1st year skier. It’s more like an athletic and younger beginner off-piste or powder skier that exclusively skis in western North America. These skiers are trying to up their game and keep up with friends at Crested Butte, Jackson Hole, Revelstoke, etc. Many are aspiring skiers that try to emulate TGR or equivalent videos.

From my guiding/avi instructor perspective, I see many super fit climbers and skiers that lack skills necessary for ski mountaineering, off-piste skiing, and hut trips. How do they choose their skis - all-mountain skis such as QST 98, Nordica 104 free, or wide touring skis with tech binding that are not compatible with their super light skis. I always suggest that they purchase a season pass, sign-up for ski lessons, and infinite laps with friends that are good skiers. It’s a different definition of fun.

 

[slow-line-fast]

Skiing, dunno, Marcus Caston looks pretty handy on groomers but at elite competition level is probably not that common.

BTW, speaking about Marcus Caston and because it was often mentioned in this thread how it isn't necessary to ski technically correctly because the boys just want to have fun. I can accept that only in cases like Marcus. Haven't seen so much carving on the inside ski. Is it technically correct-no, does the dude have FUN? Hell yeah. Is he a joy to watch? Absolutely.
So point is, if one does not want to ski properly at least try to ski like Marcus. This is fun. Skidding around and Z turning isn't. It is exhausting and is painful to watch.

Marcus Caston has chops. He also has fun for (the camera), I presume mostly for himself. And that's all good.

https://skiracing.com/ski-racings-unspoken-savior/

 

[Tony Storaro]

Marcus Caston has chops. He also has fun for (the camera), I presume mostly for himself. And that's all good.

It is better than just good. I can sit and watch this guy ski all day long, inside ski carving or not.

 

[Tony S]

Let’s step back a bit. To clarify, it seems to me that Blister’s definition of a beginner is not a never ever or 1st year skier. It’s more like an athletic and younger beginner off-piste or powder skier that exclusively skis in western North America. These skiers are trying to up their game and keep up with friends at Crested Butte, Jackson Hole, Revelstoke, etc. Many are aspiring skiers that try to emulate TGR or equivalent videos.

Totally. And to the extent that they are responsible communicators they should have come up with a better term for their audience than "beginners," because that word has a well established meaning in the sport.

 

[4ster]

From my guiding/avi instructor perspective, I see many super fit climbers and skiers that lack skills necessary for ski mountaineering, off-piste skiing, and hut trips.

Reminds me of a guy I met touring a few years back. He was a UC Berkeley student & had taken some kind of backcountry/wilderness classes. He had all the requisite gear & I met up with him high on Mt. Tallac, a steep mountain above Lake Tahoe. We talked & climbed together for a while till it was time to ski down. As we transitioned out of our skins I began to wonder. As soon as we began the decent I was in fear for this guys safety! His skiing level was that of a low intermediate who would struggle to be comfortable on groomed blue run let alone a steep backcountry route. I spent the rest of my morning giving a survival technique ski lesson...

 

[charlier]

@4ster and @Tony S good posts and I agree 100%, We are having discussions in the guiding and avalanche instructor community regarding the low level of ski skills for our many of our customers. Many are taking avi classes and guided trips way above their skill level. It’s not easy to learn how to ski in the backcountry with a 15+ lb daypack. We suggest - first, get alpine skis, take ski lessons, ski laps, and repeat. Then come back next year and they will have a better experience. its unfortunate that many alpine lessons do not teach side slipping, a falling leaf, and kick turns on moderate slopes.

 

[Tricia]

When I see people skiing like this I think what they are really doing is just speed checking themselves because they don't know how to cut speed with a proper turn. Nothing wrong with it if they are having fun and that's how they like to ski.

OK, serious question, the nice personality of this dude aside as I am sure he is a delight to be around, but how on God's green Earth is possible to ski so much and be that bad?
This is some out of this world persistence at staying bad. Or what is it? I don't understand...And no, don't just answer He just wants to have fun. Cant be that easy, must be something deeper.

Easy. Do the same thing over and over.
Very standard.

Humans are remarkably creative in conscious or unconscious work arounds. One could say, “put him on very short carving skis”, and skiing like that would be horrible. Not necessarily, if you could even convince a try.

Yeah, but sometimes I have to make myself take a step back and try and see it from a different perspective. In all honesty I agree with you because I am the type that always tries to improve at everything I do. I grew up an athlete and have always been competitive so it's in my nature. Some people aren't like that. What I will say, is the better you ski the more fun it becomes, even if you think it's a blast just being mediocre. My opinion though.

Repeating bad movements until they’re ingrained?

Plus I think he came to skiing pretty late in life.

So both, probably.

I‘d prefer to see it as he has room for improvement though than say he’s bad.

All of this....
As one of my favorite instructors says, "Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent."

That being said, he's having fun so who am I to judge?

Oh, I know......I'm Tricia (effin) Pugliese! That's who

But seriously, he's having fun and not hurting anyone so...let him ski.
Just don't mistake it for good skiing

 

[Tricia]

Reminds me of a guy I met touring a few years back. He was a UC Berkeley student & had taken some kind of backcountry/wilderness classes. He had all the requisite gear & I met up with him high on Mt. Tallac, a steep mountain above Lake Tahoe. We talked & climbed together for a while till it was time to ski down. As we transitioned out of our skins I began to wonder. As soon as we began the decent I was in fear for this guys safety! His skiing level was that of a low intermediate who would struggle to be comfortable on groomed blue run let alone a steep backcountry route. I spent the rest of my morning giving a survival technique ski lesson...
View attachment 180022

This guy was lucky he happened to bump into you.
This story doesn't surprise me, especially from the past few years when we've seen novice skiers get into BC. #duetocovid