Boot weight?

[AtleB]

I like some weight in my boots, but not for touring. Just weighed my boots right now, touring boots 1500g (tecnica zero G tour 27.5) each and regular boots 2200g each (dalbello krypton two pro 26,5) . I agree with others that I don't think 100g will be felt much.

 

[Slim]

Can we put some real numbers on this boot weight concern? What do your touring boots actually weigh (not the published numbers, but your setup weighed on a scale)? What would you consider the maximum weight you would be willing to have in a boot for the typical touring you do?

This is all new to me, so TIA.

The problem with us posting our boot weights, is the size differences.
So, you are better of checking Skimo.co and Blistergearreview, they weigh and publish that. Skimo usually has many sizes weighed.

The other thing to consider is shell weight vs liner or accessoires weight. For example, many of the lightweight boots, and the Zero G Tour Pro, have a fairly thin and very lightweight liner. If you put the same liner in a heavier boot, you’d save that weight too. Or, vice versa, if you wanted more warmth, support or comfort from the Zero G Tour, and put a beefier liner in, the weight would be closer to other boots in that category.

 

[Slim]

I would focus more on the fit and aligning the boots design/purpose to your needs.

Some AT boots focus more on great downhill performance than the uphill but can manage the uphill and some are designed to give the best performance on the uphill and can manage the downhill. There are boots between those 2 extremes.

This ^
Certainly, weight matters, but I think in many cases, When people say: “I got lighter boots, and could skin so much faster/further/longer”, I suspect there is much more than just weight going on.

Most lightweight AT boots walk/skin much better than the heavier ones.
Not (just) because of the weight, but because they don’t have as much friction in their cuff movement, and a shorter, more rockered sole, often no tongue, etc, etc.

If we truly want to evaluate the effect of weight, we need to strap some lead to our boots, then take it off.

In fact, I wish more manufacturers would make touring boots with the walkablity and ease of transitions of the lightest boots, but adding a bit of material (thickness/weight) to shell and liner for support, durability, warmth and comfort.

 

[Slim]

I have the same boot and i came from the Technica zero g pro which is 250 g lighter, but has much worse range of motion.

It doesn't seem to slow me down on the uphill, but the down is considerably better.

You found the range of motion for hiking/skinning to be much better on the Hoji Free?

 

[Noodler]

The problem with us posting our boot weights, is the size differences.
So, you are better of checking Skimo.co and Blistergearreview, they weigh and publish that. Skimo usually has many sizes weighed.

The other thing to consider is shell weight vs liner or accessoires weight. For example, many of the lightweight boots, and the Zero G Tour Pro, have a fairly thin and very lightweight liner. If you put the same liner in a heavier boot, you’d save that weight too. Or, vice versa, if you wanted more warmth, support or comfort from the Zero G Tour, and put a beefier liner in, the weight would be closer to other boots in that category.

Of course the size will change the weight, but what I would like to know is what YOU are dragging up the mountain. So what do your touring boots weigh? You're not getting out of this...

 

[Slim]

Ok @Noodler :
Zero G Tour Pro 27.5: 1462g including custom insoles and rear spoiler.
I weigh about 175lbs. We need the ratio of boot/body weight right?

My 27.5 Cochise 50/50 boots with Intution Liner, and my previous, original generation, 28.5 Scarpa Maestrale RS were around 1900g I think. But, as mentioned, these boots walk much better, so it’s not just the weight savings.

 

[Noodler]

Ok @Noodler :
Zero G Tour Pro 27.5: 1462g including custom insoles and rear spoiler.
I weigh about 175lbs. We need the ratio of boot/body weight right?

My 27.5 Cochise 50/50 boots with Intution Liner, and my previous, original generation, 28.5 Scarpa Maestrale RS were around 1900g I think. But, as mentioned, these boots walk much better, so it’s not just the weight savings.

Thanks. Just looking for numbers to do a sanity check on the package I'm putting together. I rarely "do things by the book"...

I haven't received the Daymakers yet, but I think I've devised a way to use them on the skis WITHOUT needing the alpine bindings to be on the skis during the up. More to come...

 

[Rod9301]

You found the range of motion for hiking/skinning to be much better on the Hoji Free?

Dramatically better, especially forward range of motion

 

[Slim]

Dramatically better, especially forward range of motion

Oh, that surprises me, I had not heard that before. Ah well, I have the ZGTP now,

 

[Tom K.]

This discussion is endlessly debated in the mtb world, and I've concluded that it just comes down to personal preference.

Some people like really light fast bikes, and will pay a penalty on the rugged downhills for that. Others will cheerfully lug a 35 pound enduro bike around a 4 hour loop so they can slay the downhill portions.

Neither approach is right or wrong. For me, I lean slightly towards the lighter approach with mtbs, and the opposite for AT stuff, but I've got friends that rock their skimo stuff darn near everywhere.

 

[Noodler]

This discussion is endlessly debated in the mtb world, and I've concluded that it just comes down to personal preference.

Some people like really light fast bikes, and will pay a penalty on the rugged downhills for that. Others will cheerfully lug a 35 pound enduro bike around a 4 hour loop so they can slay the downhill portions.

Neither approach is right or wrong. For me, I lean slightly towards the lighter approach with mtbs, and the opposite for AT stuff, but I've got friends that rock their skimo stuff darn near everywhere.

Thanks for that and I can totally relate. My query in this thread was more about getting a "sanity check". I've read some other information and posts that made me wonder if I was in the right ballpark for the boot weight concern. For a 50/50 boot, it sure looks like anything in the 1500-1700g range is "sane". To get under 1500g you need to venture into the AT boots (or even lighter with full-on skimo race boots). I've got my boot setup at about 1650g now (with the Palau liner and the lighter Downunders footbeds). I'm calling it good for now until I get a few tours completed and can reassess. For me to do anything different at this point will require a new boot purchase (which I will consider for next season).

 

[Slim]

@Noodler, what size boot do you have?
If it is 27.5 or bigger, then 1650g with footbeds is a great weight for a beefy touring boot, let alone a 50/50 boot.

@Tom K. , I think the bike analogy is interesting for a few reasons:
One, as you said, every person has different needs and desires.

Two because what is interesting with mtb’s is that we used to think:
Heavy (enduro, or as we called them back then, “all mountain”) bikes climb poorly, and lightweight (XC) bikes, suck for descending.

In the last few years, we have found that with good suspension design, and especially, good forward seating position, heavy longer travel enduro bikes can climb very comfortably.

At the same time, we have realized that lightweight, short travel XC bikes can actually descend pretty darn well, if they have good suspension, and especially, good , stable geometry.

I think, for the vast majority of bikers, this frees up much more useable bandwidth in the middle of the bell curve.

I think (hope?) that AT ski boots are heading the same way.

Heavier (but still lighter than an ‘average’ AT from 10 years ago), stiff boots with great walk mode (Hoji Free),
Super light boots that are fairly stiff (La Sportiva Skorpius, Dalbello Quantum)

And some very interesting stuff between, like the Zero G Tour and Scarpa F1 Lt.

 

[JonathanShefftz]

[...]I think (hope?) that AT ski boots are heading the same way.[...]

Full-carbon skimo race boots have already been that way for many years.

 

[Noodler]

@Noodler, what size boot do you have?
If it is 27.5 or bigger, then 1650g with footbeds is a great weight for a beefy touring boot, let alone a 50/50 boot.

It's a 25.5. So maybe it's not a great weight:size ratio, but our muscles/endurance doesn't know what size boot we're in, only the absolute weight that we're dragging up the hill. That was point in my earlier post about size versus weight.

 

[Slim]

It's a 25.5. So maybe it's not a great weight:size ratio, but our muscles/endurance doesn't know what size boot we're in, only the absolute weight that we're dragging up the hill. That was point in my earlier post about size versus weight.

Aha now I see. I had not grasped that that was what you were talking about before.

Yes, in the effort sense, weight of boot/weight of skier is what we should look at.
Indeed, if you have small feet, the difference between any 2 boots weight will be slightly less in an absolute sense.

If you have big feet and are lightweight, you are always going to be at a disadvantage.

And again, a hypothetical XT Free in 21.5 is still not going to skin/hike as well as an equivalent weight, 30.5 Alien RS.

 

[Slim]

Full-carbon skimo race boots have already been that way for many years.

Meaning ultra light weight with good descending performance?
I have not read that anywhere else before. Do you have an example of a boot review where that is mentioned?

To be clear, I am sure that race boots got lighter, and at the same time better descending. But what I meant with the bike analogy, was somehting that was an out and out good descender, while still being short travel and lightweight. Not “good descender for a XC race bike’.

Something like a Transition Spur:

Field Test: Transition Spur - Made to Descend - Pinkbike

A short-travel bike for riders who don’t care that they only have a short amount of travel.

www.pinkbike.com

This bike out descends a trail bike from 10 years ago.


So in the AT boot realm, that means, a boot being able to drive a large ski, in variable snow, under a full sized skier.

Let’s say, a (near) race boot weight, that out skis an original Maestrale.

Edit, I just saw the Wildsnow review of the P? gig out Mountain boot. I had seen the boot on their website, but never read about it before. What coincidence!

 

[JonathanShefftz]

Meaning ultra light weight with good descending performance?
I have not read that anywhere else before. Do you have an example of a boot review where that is mentioned?

To be clear, I am sure that race boots got lighter, and at the same time better descending. But what I meant with the bike analogy, was somehting that was an out and out good descender, while still being short travel and lightweight. Not “good descender for a XC race bike’.

My reviews are posted here:

SCARPA Alien 3.0 Boot

A third Alien has landed! And this one is not cheap like the 1.0. That’s because SCARPA used 100% carbon fiber in both the upper and lower shell, shedding hundreds of grams in the process. The result is a skimo racing machine, built for serious competitor...

skimo.co

SCARPA Alien 1.0 Boot

SCARPA says that never before has anything this lightweight provided this much performance. At Skimo Co, we tend to agree. Liberal use of carbon fiber and a cleverly designed minimalist buckle system allows these boots to cross the finish line at a scant ...

skimo.co

I also have a reviewing coming up at Skintrack.com for the new La Sportiva Stratos V.

And even the Pierre Gignoux Race 400 skis quite well, although not as good as the above models.

 

[ScottB]

I use the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD 130. In the 26.5 reference size it weighs 1420 grams, which is pretty light for a middle weight boot that is borderline 50/50 boot. The liner weighs 275 grams. I am in a 29.5 size and I don't know how much that weighs, more for sure.

I recently upgraded the liner to a mimic liner. It weighs 400 grams, so I added 125 grams to the boot. I have skinned in the boot this year with the mimic liner and I did not notice the weight. What I did notice, however, is the increase in flex stiffness of the new liner. To me, this basically proves what Slim and others have been saying in this thread. With the new mimic liner, I really enjoy skiing the boot inbounds, so I think it moves into the 50/50 catagory. Its definitely on the light end of the category at 1550 grams, and big heavy skis can make it feel less precise than my race boots (not a big surprise). Just for sh*ts and giggles, I will try to weigh my XTD's and my new Atomic Redster Club Sport boots. The Redsters feel like the heaviest boots I have ever owned.

 

[clewis]

Just saw this thread was still going.

I ended up with the Tecnica Zero G Pro Tour. Out of the box they just fit better then the Hoji's. This was the biggest deciding factor. Otherwise it was a toss up.

So far I have about 20 days touring on them and really enjoy it. The only complaints would be a little challenging to get my feet in them. I really need to pry the boot open. And the buckles can be a little finicky.

The uphill travel is awesome. Old boot were BD Quadrants. These feel like hiking boots to me. Nice and stiff/supportive for the ride down.

With my insoles they weight 1340grams per boot. Size 25.5. Highly recommend checking them out.

I have a number of friends on the Hoji's as well and all seem to enjoy them. Walk mode is awesome. But most had to do work on the boots(this is a personal thing though).

Next will be to wok on my pack weight. But that's a whole other thread.

 

[Noodler]

With all the mods I've made to my Fischer The Curv 130 boots, they're now sitting at 1774g. Definitely on the heavy side for touring (and of course there's no walk-mode or tech fittings). I was able to pick up a pair of the 2021 Fischer Ranger Free 130 boots for cheap. They're spec'd at 1600g at the 26.5 shell size. I believe that in my size they'll be at or below 1500g once I swap out the liners. So this option eliminates my desire to jump into the Scarpa Maestrale XT or the Hoji Free 130. This opens up consideration for going much lower in weight for a dedicated touring setup. I'm thinking something in the realm of the new 2022 Fischer Transalp at 1280g or even lighter.