Boots...50/50 vs Traditional

[neonorchid]

Any input on Atomic's "Grip-Walk" Hawx XTD 130's liner update for 2019/2020?

 

[bremmick]

I stepped into a Cochise and XT Free in 28.5. Very tight fit. Slightly looser than rock climbing shoe tight. Tested the shell fit. It is about 5mm. Not sure how much length I’ll get in pack out. Or if my toe will lay flat.

Tried the Atomic Hawk XTD in 29.5.....couldn’t even get my foot down into it.

 

[Castle Dave]

Regarding the non cooperative toe, I have the same problem and there are options If the liner is too tight have it punched, if the shell is to tight have it punched although a vertical punch may be tricky. None of that worked for me so I ground down the boot board under the errant toe so it had a place to go. My toes just go along for the ride when I ski anyway so it's not to critical. My wife the nurse suggested you tape it flat (!!??}

 

[neonorchid]

I stepped into a Cochise and XT Free in 28.5. Very tight fit. Slightly looser than rock climbing shoe tight. Tested the shell fit. It is about 5mm. Not sure how much length I’ll get in pack out. Or if my toe will lay flat.

Tried the Atomic Hawk XTD in 29.5.....couldn’t even get my foot down into it.

Atomic really should do something about that!!! Hawk XTD 25.5 fits my foot well but was a real SOB to put on, and not much better getting them off. The clog just doesn't want to open enough and stay open, they oughta take a lesson in flex zones from sister company Salomon!

 

[ScottB]

Any input on Atomic's "Grip-Walk" Hawx XTD 130's liner update for 2019/2020?

I have seen it and it looks improved but didn't try them on.

 

[Analisa]

Any input on Atomic's "Grip-Walk" Hawx XTD 130's liner update for 2019/2020?

Shell got heavier, liner got a lot lighter. They made the 120 the more resort friendly brother with the liner on it.

 

[Rod9301]

None of the touring boots will ski as well as an Alpine boot.

I had the freetour 130, currently on Technica guide pro 130, ok boots, but nowhere near the performance of my rx 130

 

[bremmick]

How much length will I get with pack in on an XT Free and shell mold? I’m right at about 5-6mm on shell fit in a 28.5. Toe is just about laying flat.

 

[bremmick]

I’ve decided for sure on the short fit and 28.5.

Who has real first hand experience with the RX and XT Free? Is there a noticeable performance difference? I ski fairly hard. But also am a big dude at 6’4ish and 210 lbs.

Will I regret the XT Free if I don’t end up touring much, if ever?

 

[Analisa]

Generally, you'll get more responsiveness out of the extra weight & polyether of the RX, but it's also a little more temperature sensitive, so YMMV depending on any given day. It'll also be more durable over the long term (although, the XT Free is definitely on the beefy & durable side when it comes to touring boots). There are also always ways to beef up the feeling of the XT Frees with a zipfit liner or aftermarket booster strap (or going with the 140 flex XT Free Pro Model).

I'd probably err on the side of the RX. It's hard to buy the right touring gear when you don't tour yet, aren't sure where you'll tour or how often or how you stride or your uphill capacity or what the downhill terrain demands of your boots. Some people find the XT sufficient, some don't, and there's no guarantee that you won't end up shopping for touring boots even if you have the XT.

The people I know who are actually satisfied with a quiver of 1 for boots or skis either really have where they want to land on the weight/performance scale totally on point, budget constrained, or have been skiing tech touring setups as their first pair of skis and don't realize what they're missing.

 

[Tricia]

I worked with a solid boot fitter at Sports Den in Salt Lake City.

Curtis at Sports Den is definitely on his game!

 

[Tricia]

I’ve decided for sure on the short fit and 28.5.

Who has real first hand experience with the RX and XT Free? Is there a noticeable performance difference? I ski fairly hard. But also am a big dude at 6’4ish and 210 lbs.

Will I regret the XT Free if I don’t end up touring much, if ever?

@UGASkiDawg ??

 

[UGASkiDawg]

@UGASkiDawg ??

I'm in the rs130 for 6 years and just upgraded to a new 18/19 dual core rs 130 2 days ago. I have the xt free 130 as my at boot but no comparison for inbounds skiing. No experience with the RX. I'll take the RS over the xt free every day and twice on Sundays. Not much experience with other at boots but for my sidecountry purposes it works great. I'd be unhappy if I had to ski it as my only boot for 95% inbounds skiing.

 

[bremmick]

Those are some great honest pieces of feedback. I’ll be grabbing a pair of the RX130’s. Thank you.

 

[Slim]

I tired on both a Lange XT free and Cochise and bought the Cochise because it feet my foot a fair bit better: snugger heel hold and a toch roomier in the toe box.
At the time, I was looking for an inbounds boot, just picked this because of fit.


@Analisa , I do tour in mine. I have the Cochise 120, which might be a touch lighter shell than the 130, but the weight is decent for a PU boot. Of course, Grilamid boots will be Lighter, but not always by much. My Cochise Shell weighs 1500g, and my old Maestrale RS shell is 1460g, in one size bigger. I certainly will get a light touring boot at some point in the future, but that would be very far from a 50/50 boot.
Real world range of motion is not that much different either between the two. I think the Lange Freetour wasn’t quite a good.
The biggest issue for me was the tongue in the stock liner, using the Scarpa/Intution liner in the Cochise shell drops weight, and has less resistance to ankle movement.

To be clear, I am by no way suggesting the Cochise is a touring boot, nor even that it is the best compromise between touring capability and downhill performance.
But @bremmick , was looking for an inbounds boot, with touring/walk mode, and in that genre, it does quite well.

 

[bremmick]

I tired on both a Lange XT free and Cochise and bought the Cochise because it feet my foot a fair bit better: snugger heel hold and a toch roomier in the toe box.
At the time, I was looking for an inbounds boot, just picked this because of fit.


@Analisa , I do tour in mine. I have the Cochise 120, which might be a touch lighter shell than the 130, but the weight is decent for a PU boot. Of course, Grilamid boots will be Lighter, but not always by much. My Cochise Shell weighs 1500g, and my old Maestrale RS shell is 1460g, in one size bigger. I certainly will get a light touring boot at some point in the future, but that would be very far from a 50/50 boot.
Real world range of motion is not that much different either between the two. I think the Lange Freetour wasn’t quite a good.
The biggest issue for me was the tongue in the stock liner, using the Scarpa/Intution liner in the Cochise shell drops weight, and has less resistance to ankle movement.

To be clear, I am by no way suggesting the Cochise is a touring boot, nor even that it is the best compromise between touring capability and downhill performance.
But @bremmick , was looking for an inbounds boot, with touring/walk mode, and in that genre, it does quite well.

How’s the skiing in the Cochise in an inbounds situation compared with a true alpine boot in a Mach1 or RX 130? How’s it ski with it’s shell vs a Grilamid shell XT Free?

 

[Mike Rogers]

My new Hoji FREE ski AMAZINGLY well. The flex is very firm and progressive. Unusual in a lightish touring boot. The HAWX XTD is the other "no compromise" light touring boot and it would be my choice to use on alpine bindings as well.

Mine do too!

But.....while I am happy skiing the Hoji Free inbounds, I am happier on my Kryptons.

Still, not a bad one boot quiver if you mostly ski soft snow inbounds

 

[Choucas]

No touring or 50/50 boot will match the performance of an alpine boot. If you are looking to improve, go with an alpine boot with a performance fit. Then, when you have saved up some more pennies, buy a touring boot. They need not be as tight fitting. Walking is different from downhill skiing.

 

[Slim]

How’s the skiing in the Cochise in an inbounds situation compared with a true alpine boot in a Mach1 or RX 130? How’s it ski with it’s shell vs a Grilamid shell XT Free?

I can‘t compare it to any of those, since I haven’t skied them. I had an older lower level Lange boot and a before this.
i would say, it seems pretty similar. It’s still PU shell, just like an regular Alpine boot. It’s still fairly standard shell design. Of course, it's not the stiffest, nor is it the narrowest last, so if you want or need those things, look elsewhere. But, comparing to a regular alpine boot, I don’t feel any movement in the cuff from walk mode, although I am sure there is something going on there, and a true high performance boot without walk mode will be more direct and more precise.

I haven’t skied the Lange XT Free, so can't say for sure, but really, I’d bet they’d be pretty similar. You‘re mostly looking at different fit, and only after that, since they are both overlap shells with heel mounted walk mode, only then you start getting into different flex characteristics of different plastics,and that’s pretty hard to tell without A/B in the same day. Blister review might offer some comparisons.

My guess is, if you are skiing slalom skis, or something similar, where you want a very stiff, very precise boot, stick with the high end Alpine boots without walk mode.
For my skiing, moderate speed, not driving the ski’s very hard, using very ‘loose’ skis, I don't think there is a difference between the Cochise and other Alpine boots without the walk mode.
At my shop, one of the ski buyers uses the Cochise 130 as his ’freeskiing’ boot, whenever he is not race(training).

 

[Andy Mink]

A lot of people also forget to click their boots back into ski mode before taking off

I've resembled that remark. More than once!