Individual Review CARV

[LiquidFeet]

Yes.

 

[TheArchitect]

Is anyone here using Carv with Zipfits or other liners that you put on your foot and then into the shell? Any issues with the Carv footbed not staying in place?

 

[Mike King]

I don't know about you guys, but that looks like a significant bulge to me. Any little mustard-seed size piece of anything in my shoe makes a very big impression. How could anyone not feel that much larger bump?

Because it is in the middle of the lateral arch?

 

[Steve]

Is anyone here using Carv with Zipfits or other liners that you put on your foot and then into the shell? Any issues with the Carv footbed not staying in place?

mine were under Zipfits and it wasn’t a problem.

 

[TheArchitect]

mine were under Zipfits and it wasn’t a problem.

Glad to hear that, Steve.

 

[tazdevl]

S/Pro 120 here. I’ve got custom footbeds, heat formed shell and liner, punched in a couple spots. the foot sensor is 3mm but with all the work that’s been done on my boot, Im still unsure if I like what they’re doing to my fit.

I do like it but jury is still out f I love it enough to ignore how it’s affecting my fit.

 

[Noodler]

Glad to hear that, Steve.

@TheArchitect - I recommend that you do not have the CARV units in your shells when you do the initial ZipFit fitting. Those can be added later after you've got the ZipFit broken in for the shells. Then you can determine whether you think you can get the CARV back in along with the Zips without lowering the top of your bootboard (via grinding). Also, adding UHMW tape on top of the CARV is probably going to be the way to go to avoid the wear and tear on them.

 

[SwedishFish]

Is anyone here using Carv with Zipfits or other liners that you put on your foot and then into the shell? Any issues with the Carv footbed not staying in place?

I’m using Zipfits that I also put on first. I took the boot board out and put tape around the Carv insert and boot board like this:

FAQ - Troubleshooting

Improve your skiing technique with real-time audio coaching. Carv uses pressure and motion analysis to help you learn to ski using audio feedback on the ski slopes.

help.getcarv.com

No issues so far after a dozen or so trips.

 

[Noodler]

I’m using Zipfits that I also put on first. I took the boot board out and put tape around the Carv insert and boot board like this:

FAQ - Troubleshooting

Improve your skiing technique with real-time audio coaching. Carv uses pressure and motion analysis to help you learn to ski using audio feedback on the ski slopes.

help.getcarv.com

No issues so far after a dozen or so trips.

It's an interesting idea, but it wouldn't work with any of my boots. My bootboards are so tight into the bottom of the shell that adding even 1 layer of something like duct tape would not allow the bootboard to sit correctly in the shell. Of course all this tape is also going to take up even more room. I really have to wonder about what kind of boot fit people have who can add all this stuff into their boots without modification.

If there's concern about the CARV shifting on top of the bootboard, then can't it be secured to the top of the bootboard with a few small pieces of double-sided tape? Of course, I don't have a CARV so I don't actually know how best to make this all play together well.

 

[SwedishFish]

It's an interesting idea, but it wouldn't work with any of my boots. My bootboards are so tight into the bottom of the shell that adding even 1 layer of something like duct tape would not allow the bootboard to sit correctly in the shell. Of course all this tape is also going to take up even more room. I really have to wonder about what kind of boot fit people have who can add all this stuff into their boots without modification.

If there's concern about the CARV shifting on top of the bootboard, then can't it be secured to the top of the bootboard with a few small pieces of double-sided tape? Of course, I don't have a CARV so I don't actually know how best to make this all play together well.

I think most people would just do like you said and use the provided double sided tape to secure the inserts.

I was concerned that removing and re-inserting my Zipfits all the time might cause problems and went with the extra tape around the boot board.

To be fair it was a major pain in the ass getting the boot boards back in. I thought I was going to have to remove my cuffs to give me more access but eventually got everything back where it goes.

Everything is a little more snug than it was before but hasn’t been an issue. I’m sure everyone’s boot fit is different though.

 

[TheArchitect]

@TheArchitect - I recommend that you do not have the CARV units in your shells when you do the initial ZipFit fitting. Those can be added later after you've got the ZipFit broken in for the shells. Then you can determine whether you think you can get the CARV back in along with the Zips without lowering the top of your bootboard (via grinding). Also, adding UHMW tape on top of the CARV is probably going to be the way to go to avoid the wear and tear on them.

Interesting. I was thinking about this and came to the conclusion that keeping them in made more sense. I figured that the liners should form based on what will be the final condition (with Carv installed). I'll try without it though as I can see the logic in what you're suggesting.

I've read the other posts about UHMW tape and am planning to put it on top of the Carv as well as the shell and the toe and heel of the liner.

 

[Noodler]

Interesting. I was thinking about this and came to the conclusion that keeping them in made more sense. I figured that the liners should form based on what will be the final condition (with Carv installed). I'll try without it though as I can see the logic in what you're suggesting.

I've read the other posts about UHMW tape and am planning to put it on top of the Carv as well as the shell and the toe and heel of the liner.

Please toss out the old preconceived ideas about what traditional liner fitting is about when it comes to a ZipFit. A ZipFit can be re-fit over and over. You're better off not putting your CARV through the stress you're going to put your boot through during the initial fitting cycles. It's going to take some time and effort to get the liner broken-in. You can further break it in later by adding more thickness under your foot OR you may decide that it makes much more sense to lower the position of your foot in the boot. I have posted about this issue elsewhere, but I suspect a great many skiers do not have their foot position at the proper level in the boot so that their anatomy (heel & ankle) most closely aligns with where the contours of the heel and ankle pockets reside. If there's too much material below your foot in the boot, you either need to thin your footbed or grind your bootboard. There really is no other option if you truly want the ZipFit to perform at its best. You're goal is to have great heel hold down power in your boots. The first step in that goal is assessing whether your foot is able to get to the best position in the shell.

 

[TheWombat]

Just a short note on my first month with Carv. Overall I like it a lot. I am a intermediate skier, 3-4 years of experience, but I spent last season snow boarding so I was a little wobbly getting back onto skis. For the first couple of weeks I was getting mid 90s Ski IQ with the occasional 102. I am also skiing with my 5 and 7 year old kids so that reduces the opportunity to just ski on my own and focus on technique. This last week I had 2 half days on my own and was regularly getting 108+ with a high of 111. Based on looking through my metrics and some self assessment I should be able to hit the 120s during February as I focus more on technique and early edging. I am also a gadget geek so I like the concept of looking through the data, and I spend time looking at videos on how to improve certain metrics - so I learn through understanding the theory.

My wife is very different in learning style, she learns through feel, and finds that YouTube videos or having a concept explained doesn't help her. I didn't think she would be interested in Carv as she likes to ski for fun and doesn't like hassle (and while the setup of Carv each morning is easy, to her it would be classed as a hassle). However she hinted a few times about her own Carv, so we got one and she used it for the first time at the weekend. She went from a Ski IQ in the 80s on her first few runs through to increasing to a 107 yesterday. What surprised me was how having Carv has really got her to focus more on improving technique, and how she is becoming competitive in getting her score up, which is now pushing me more.

A few observations though, as I don't see Carv being a full replacement for real life instruction:

• I very much like to have the data to review my run while on the ski lift so I have 'objective metrics' to determine how I did.
• I very much like that I can then focus on one improvement area e.g. Early Edging and see whether my perception of improving is validated with the data being captured
• Having someone with a GoPro skiing behind you also helps provide input into how your body is moving which can be very helpful in supplementing the Carv data
  • so whether it is an instructor or family/friend, having that visual observation and coaching is still key, at least for a typical intermediate skier. Once the practiced technique is understood then Carv can really help in measuring the progress in advancing in it. e.g. Early Edging
• If you have poor technique Carv is not necessarily going to fix it for you, all it can do is highlight where the metrics are lower
• Sometimes our Ski-IQ scores change by 1-3 points after syncing - I'm not sure what causes this other than assuming the broader data set and algorithms on the server allow for additional calculations and refinement of the Ski-IQ
• The server has been down at least a couple of times in the last 4 weeks causing some synching issues
• There are bugs in the software, some minor, e.g. it say's "Yesterday's Run" when we are still in today which I am guessing is a timezone issue with Carv as we are on the East Coast. Other bugs have prevented the use of Carv entirely but at least Carv have been responsive in fixing them within 24-28 hours. Sometimes the app takes several seconds to respond to a button press which is a pain when I have my gloves off and it is cold outside!
• A couple of times I have had to delete the app and reinstall it as whenever I opened it the app would immediately close again (iPhone)

I showed Carv to one of our local instructors and they are thinking of buying it. I may spend a couple of hours on Friday getting some instruction from him where we focus on using Carv to direct the improvement areas and also measure the results. Will be a good test to see how the real life instruction and Carv data capture come together.

Overall my summary is a great concept for those looking to measure their skiing and/or see areas for improvement. A few bugs but for both my wife and I we are using it every weekend and finding it beneficial and have no regrets on the purchase.

thanks

Alex

 

[TheArchitect]

Please toss out the old preconceived ideas about what traditional liner fitting is about when it comes to a ZipFit. A ZipFit can be re-fit over and over. You're better off not putting your CARV through the stress you're going to put your boot through during the initial fitting cycles. It's going to take some time and effort to get the liner broken-in. You can further break it in later by adding more thickness under your foot OR you may decide that it makes much more sense to lower the position of your foot in the boot. I have posted about this issue elsewhere, but I suspect a great many skiers do not have their foot position at the proper level in the boot so that their anatomy (heel & ankle) most closely aligns with where the contours of the heel and ankle pockets reside. If there's too much material below your foot in the boot, you either need to thin your footbed or grind your bootboard. There really is no other option if you truly want the ZipFit to perform at its best. You're goal is to have great heel hold down power in your boots. The first step in that goal is assessing whether your foot is able to get to the best position in the shell.

Understood and will do!

 

[textrovert]

I now have 16 days on CARV this season. So I thought I would provide some additional feedback.

I still love it and use it every time. It definitely has helped me improve. But I would not say it replaces ski instruction. It actually works as a great compliment to instruction.

I am subbed to Tom Gellie's Big Picture Skiing. Each time I ski I have a few things I try to implement from his videos, with CARV in free skiing mode. I use the SkiIQ it gives at the end of each run to see if what I attempted helped. When the score went up, I tried to recall the feelings I had and do more of the same. The last several days, something clicked and I have been locked in a good positive feedback loop with improvements every day I am skiing. When I started this season, I was in the 115-120 range. Today I hit 141 (with a little cheat help).

Cheat help: I mentioned earlier that I had my best groomed runs sandwiched between moguls or other choppy runs. I found that I could just stop and re-start the free-ski session at the start of the groomer (and do the same at the bottom before the section back to the chair). This gives SkiIQ just for the section of interest. I guess eventually, I should strive to ski it all equally smoothly, but I needed to see the score in just the section of interest to give me the right feedback.

Addendum: I had it running on a couple of powder days and my score tanked to 100-110 range.

 

[textrovert]

Just a short note on my first month with Carv. Overall I like it a lot. I am a intermediate skier, 3-4 years of experience, but I spent last season snow boarding so I was a little wobbly getting back onto skis. For the first couple of weeks I was getting mid 90s Ski IQ with the occasional 102. I am also skiing with my 5 and 7 year old kids so that reduces the opportunity to just ski on my own and focus on technique. This last week I had 2 half days on my own and was regularly getting 108+ with a high of 111. Based on looking through my metrics and some self assessment I should be able to hit the 120s during February as I focus more on technique and early edging. I am also a gadget geek so I like the concept of looking through the data, and I spend time looking at videos on how to improve certain metrics - so I learn through understanding the theory.

My wife is very different in learning style, she learns through feel, and finds that YouTube videos or having a concept explained doesn't help her. I didn't think she would be interested in Carv as she likes to ski for fun and doesn't like hassle (and while the setup of Carv each morning is easy, to her it would be classed as a hassle). However she hinted a few times about her own Carv, so we got one and she used it for the first time at the weekend. She went from a Ski IQ in the 80s on her first few runs through to increasing to a 107 yesterday. What surprised me was how having Carv has really got her to focus more on improving technique, and how she is becoming competitive in getting her score up, which is now pushing me more.

A few observations though, as I don't see Carv being a full replacement for real life instruction:

• I very much like to have the data to review my run while on the ski lift so I have 'objective metrics' to determine how I did.
• I very much like that I can then focus on one improvement area e.g. Early Edging and see whether my perception of improving is validated with the data being captured
• Having someone with a GoPro skiing behind you also helps provide input into how your body is moving which can be very helpful in supplementing the Carv data
  • so whether it is an instructor or family/friend, having that visual observation and coaching is still key, at least for a typical intermediate skier. Once the practiced technique is understood then Carv can really help in measuring the progress in advancing in it. e.g. Early Edging
• If you have poor technique Carv is not necessarily going to fix it for you, all it can do is highlight where the metrics are lower
• Sometimes our Ski-IQ scores change by 1-3 points after syncing - I'm not sure what causes this other than assuming the broader data set and algorithms on the server allow for additional calculations and refinement of the Ski-IQ
• The server has been down at least a couple of times in the last 4 weeks causing some synching issues
• There are bugs in the software, some minor, e.g. it say's "Yesterday's Run" when we are still in today which I am guessing is a timezone issue with Carv as we are on the East Coast. Other bugs have prevented the use of Carv entirely but at least Carv have been responsive in fixing them within 24-28 hours. Sometimes the app takes several seconds to respond to a button press which is a pain when I have my gloves off and it is cold outside!
• A couple of times I have had to delete the app and reinstall it as whenever I opened it the app would immediately close again (iPhone)

I showed Carv to one of our local instructors and they are thinking of buying it. I may spend a couple of hours on Friday getting some instruction from him where we focus on using Carv to direct the improvement areas and also measure the results. Will be a good test to see how the real life instruction and Carv data capture come together.

Overall my summary is a great concept for those looking to measure their skiing and/or see areas for improvement. A few bugs but for both my wife and I we are using it every weekend and finding it beneficial and have no regrets on the purchase.

thanks

Alex

Nice detailed review Alex. I missed seeing it before it posted my update above.

My experience matches yours, especially the bullet points you highlighted.

 

[TheArchitect]

I was using mine this weekend in Free Ski mode. After 6-7 runs I looked at my scores and found that I was consistently low on fore-aft stance so I switched to Fore/Aft Monitor mode for the rest of the day. For those who don't have a Carv unit the Monitor mode will speak a number after every turn to tell you how you're doing. The target range is from 45-60 with anything below indicating a too-forward stance and above you're too far back. With 2 separate monitor sessions of 306 and 337 turns my average score was 48. Before I had the voice giving me feedback my Ski IQ was lower for each run but the scores moved up after. The funny thing is I would have never guessed that my tendency was to be too far forward.

The other thing that was great about monitor mode was when I went on steeper terrain my numbers jumped up to be consistently in the mid to high 50s, confirming that on steeper terrain I tend to be further back. It sort of validates to me that the Carv units really are reading what's going on with my stance.

Anyway, in the 4 primary categories of Balance, Edging, Pressure and Rotary I typically land close to or in the target zone for the last 3 with my best scores in Pressure. I'm consistently in the Pro zone for that. What's great is that Carv confirms what I suspected was my biggest weakness, Balance and Edging. I'm going to spend the next handful of ski days focused entirely on fore/aft and foot roll to see if I can bring that skill up to the level of the other three.

 

[textrovert]

Having someone with a GoPro skiing behind you also helps provide input into how your body is moving which can be very helpful in supplementing the Carv data

• so whether it is an instructor or family/friend, having that visual observation and coaching is still key, at least for a typical intermediate skier. Once the practiced technique is understood then Carv can really help in measuring the progress in advancing in it. e.g. Early Edging

A while ago, I saw a video from CARV where they had synced video of a skier with the CARV data overlaid (like how you can add speed/elevation/map with regular GoPro video). Maybe it was just a debug feature or a future option they are working on.

EDIT: Found it. It was a video from Tom. Really old one though - from 2017. So maybe it was dropped.

 

[Steve]

Yes I was in touch with them about this. They took that out a while ago and hope to put it back in at some point. Very disappointing to me, I felt a little misled.

 

[TheWombat]

Yes I was in touch with them about this. They took that out a while ago and hope to put it back in at some point. Very disappointing to me, I felt a little misled.

If/when that feature returns it will exponentially increase the ability of Carv, assuming that you don't need a PhD to interpret the information being displayed with the video.

As good as Carv is there are a myriad of improvement areas for Carv, and I guess they need to prioritize. I would like to see access to the data via a website (similar to Garmin Connect) as well as the phone, and a way to easily compare two (or more) runs side by side. At the moment I have Carv on my iPad and iPhone to allow me to manually compare two runs, but it could be done much better.

TheWombat