International (Europe/Japan/Southern Hemisphere) General Europe Q

[James]

Lol, the only time I’ve been in the last 5 years is French school break. You go when you can go. It’s no worse and not as bad as VT weekend.

 

[fatbob]

With far fewer runs per lift, and people (for the most part) staying away from the off-piste, do the groomed runs get a lot more chopped up by the end of the day compared to North America? Do they groom better over there, or even during the day?

Well yes and no. As above crowds get spread over a pretty big area but that doesn't prevent some individual pistes becoming a mobbed nightmare, particularly where they are a critical connector. Home runs are particularly bad because everyone on the mountain returning to that particular village is using them in the same time window.

 

[Jacob]

It would be great to get over there one day to check it all out. With my wife being a non-skier, going to Europe and hanging out a ski resort is very low on her list of priorities unfortunately. I'd like to do either the Monterosa area and Cervinia/Zermatt as one trip or a week in the Dolomites... Or both eventually!

If your wife is a non-skier, then you need to look at resorts that have more activities off the slopes. For example, St. Anton has an outdoor ice rink, an indoor swim center, a couple of indoor tennis courts, and an indoor climbing wall. You can also do some day trips to other towns like Innsbruck on the train (Innsbruck has an old town and a castle, so it’s worth a visit).

Arosa has outdoor and indoor ice skating, one of the hotels there has its own indoor tennis courts, and there are a bunch of winter walking trails all over the mountain, making it possible to meet up for lunch on the mountain. It’s also got a pro hockey team, so there’s a good chance they’ll have a home match while you’re there.

Kitzbuhel is a decent sized town and even closer to Innsbruck than St. Anton. I’ve never skied there, but I’ve been there in the summer.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

If your wife is a non-skier, then you need to look at resorts that have more activities off the slopes. For example, St. Anton has an outdoor ice rink, an indoor swim center, a couple of indoor tennis courts, and an indoor climbing wall. You can also do some day trips to other towns like Innsbruck on the train (Innsbruck has an old town and a castle, so it’s worth a visit).

Arosa has outdoor and indoor ice skating, one of the hotels there has its own indoor tennis courts, and there are a bunch of winter walking trails all over the mountain, making it possible to meet up for lunch on the mountain. It’s also got a pro hockey team, so there’s a good chance they’ll have a home match while you’re there.

Kitzbuhel is a decent sized town and even closer to Innsbruck than St. Anton. I’ve never skied there, but I’ve been there in the summer.

Thanks for the feedback. By chance, do any of those places you mentioned have an average daytime high of 28-32°C? Will they serve you frozen cocktails at your poolside lounger? That's my wife's speed.

Worse yet, she has already been to Venice so tying in a side trip to there with a Dolomites trip doesn't interest her too much either. She does like nice ski villages though, but she definitely likes them more in the summer.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks for the feedback. By chance, do any of those places you mentioned have an average daytime high of 28-32°C? Will they serve you frozen cocktails at your poolside lounger? That's my wife's speed.

Worse yet, she has already been to Venice so tying in a side trip to there with a Dolomites trip doesn't interest her too much either. She does like nice ski villages though, but she definitely likes them more in the summer.

A summer trip to the Alps is fun. Spend a couple of days in Zurich, then a couple of days in St. Anton, a couple of days in Kitzbuhel, a couple of days in Innsbruck, and then back to Zurich for the flight home.

 

[James]

Where is that Austrian ice skating for many miles?

 

[Ulmerhutte]

For those who doubt Europe gets powder (:

 

[fatbob]

Thanks for the feedback. By chance, do any of those places you mentioned have an average daytime high of 28-32°C? Will they serve you frozen cocktails at your poolside lounger? That's my wife's speed.

Worse yet, she has already been to Venice so tying in a side trip to there with a Dolomites trip doesn't interest her too much either. She does like nice ski villages though, but she definitely likes them more in the summer.

Why oh why do people persist in marrying these non skiers/boarders. Surely ought to be part of the marriage vows "I do solemnly swear to support my H/W's choices in winter holiday activities if in return they will tolerate mine for the summer "

 

[Slim]

Where is that Austrian ice skating for many miles?

Do you mean the plowed course on the Weissensee?

Ice Skating

Ice skating at Lake Weissensee is one of the absolute winter highlights in Carinthia. With 6.5 km², Europe

www.weissensee.com

As far as I can tell, that is less than 25km long though. It is where the Dutch 11 cities race/tour is held when there is insufficient ice in the Netherlands (most winters), but they have to resort to lapping it, as there is not a long enough course to get the full race/tour in one go(200km)

 

[Cheizz]

Where is that Austrian ice skating for many miles?

That's the Weissensee, as @Slim mentioned. A friend of mine is a marathon ice skater. She and her competitors are over there for two weeks every year from the end of January. The nearest ski resort is Nassfeld (40 minute drive) and Bad Klein Kirchheim (70-minute drive).

 

[Seldomski]

Hello all,
I am planning to ski Europe 2022 assuming the pandemic has eased a bit more. That said, I ski primarily on piste (99%) and enjoy nice après. I’ve been to PC/DV/Vail and my wife is a strong upper intermediate (can ski all backbowls at vail.). Going to Aspen next week. We are in our early 40’s looking to explore Zermatt, Lech/St Anton, the Dolomites over the next few years. I don’t have any second hand advice on the pros and cons of each locale or European skiing in general —. Is it “worth it” to ski the alps over a western US resort trip in light of the convenience factor? Would love any and all input! Many thanks

That's a good starter list.

I have skied Cortina for 1 week and St. Anton for 1 week. Both were fantastic. We went the last week of January with our local ski club (two different trips in different years). I recommend doing your first trip with a ski club since it will likely include people who have skied Europe before. There are a lot of differences in how the sport is approached in Europe vs. North America that are hard to explain. But sitting down with someone (in person) who has done it before can be very illuminating.

My takeaways:
1) Many hotels in Europe assume a 1 week stay with half board, staying Saturday to Saturday. Half board is Breakfast and dinner included. Recommend you get this option but also venture out some nights to experience other fine dining. Dinner at the hotel is communal and can be quite fun way to meet others.
2) Off piste terrain is not patrolled and generally not mitigated for avalanches. Obstacles are not marked outside the groomed trails. Things like cliffs, crevasses, ravines, etc that are marked in North America (NA) simply are not. You leave the marked groomer, you are on your own. Rescue off piste (or even on) is not covered by the lift ticket and you can be billed separately for it. So you may want some pass insurance with your lift ticket to cover medical evacuation.
3) If you have off piste skills and the snow is good, hire a guide to take you off the groomers. Cost of a guide is generally not too bad, roughly 30-50% the cost of a private lesson in NA.
4) Most skiers are on narrow (<80mm) carving skis and are generally more proficient than the average NA skier (unless they are tourists from USA). Rental skis are generally much cheaper and better quality/selection than in North America. Don't bother bringing your skis -- rent. International airlines don't always cover skis as a freebie checked bag. Depending on the partner airlines, you can face a big bill.
5) Ski areas are massive and you will generally be walking more in the city/base areas with ski boots. Invest in some ski tracks, yak trax, cat tracks, etc etc for your ski boots to help with walking around. Don't worry about seeing relatively few trails on a map of Cortina or St. Anton. They ski much larger than they look on the trail map.
6) After skiing europe, ski resorts in North America will look like Disney world to you. The NA ski resorts are trying to look like the 400+ year old towns in the mountains. It's like going to Epcot Italy vs. actually going to Italy... Similarly, the food is far superior in europe and the après ski scene can be insane (depending on where you go).
7) Many ski areas of europe have ski routes or itineraries that are famous. They are a mix of on and off-piste skiing to see points of interest. Particularly Cortina/Dolomites area. Some of these can be done on your own with some research. Others really should be done with a guide.

 

[James]

“Is it worth it?”
Depends on how strongly you’re wondering and what the goals are. If you just want vert and good snow, maybe not.
Years ago on Epicski there was a guy who asked “Is it worth it for an intermediate to go west?” He skied Whiteface in NY. He got tons of very good advice, ultimately he went to Steamboat. He basically concluded it wasn’t worth it.
So the easy answer to the worth it question is ‘no’. That way one is not disappointed.
But if you’re still wondering, just go and find out.

 

[Seldomski]

If you just want vert and good snow, maybe not.

Yes agree with this. If you ski with the purpose of getting lots of vertical and some exercise on some groomers, and don't stop to smell the roses when you ski, it's probably not worth it. If I had gone skiing to the alps 15 years ago, I would probably have thought it wasn't worth it. I know a bunch of skiers that would not consider it worth it since it's not a good "value." It's like a game for them to minimize expenditures while maximizing the skiing.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

It's like a game for them to minimize expenditures while maximizing the skiing.

That would be me to some extent.

The issue is it's difficult to get a group to hop on a plane and fly somewhere without their families and spouses unless the costs are extremely reasonable. So when I plan out our annual trips, I try to minimize the sticker shock as much as possible so when the itinerary is presented to the wives, we get as many approvals as we can.

That said, I understand the European experience is a different animal altogether. Sure, when I go there (someday!) I'll still try to rack up the vert, but it will all be planned around where lunch is going to be, and seeing all the different villages that would be reachable from our home base.

 

[James]

Ski clubs often have very reasonable trip prices.

 

[Jacob]

That said, I understand the European experience is a different animal altogether. Sure, when I go there (someday!) I'll still try to rack up the vert, but it will all be planned around where lunch is going to be, and seeing all the different villages that would be reachable from our home base.

Rather than thinking about it in terms of destinations for lunch or whatever, it’s better to think of it like resort hopping within a ski area. So basically, you break up the ski area into sections and ski different sections on different days. But instead of driving to each section in the morning, you ski there.

So for example, whenever I go to St. Anton, I usually ski Rendl and the front side of St. Anton on the first day. On the second day, I usually ski the front side a little more and then head over to Stuben for the rest of the day. After that, I’ll spend a day or two just skiing Zürs and Lech, and so on.

First thing in the morning, I take the fastest route to the section I want to spend the day in. And then once I get there, I go looking for the terrain that looks most fun in that section.

 

[Cheizz]

There are loads of great ski areas in the alps. I have been to around 60 of them. So if you need help in trip layouts as @Jacob describes, there are a few here that can help. At your service.

 

[Seldomski]

That would be me to some extent.

The issue is it's difficult to get a group to hop on a plane and fly somewhere without their families and spouses unless the costs are extremely reasonable. So when I plan out our annual trips, I try to minimize the sticker shock as much as possible so when the itinerary is presented to the wives, we get as many approvals as we can.

That said, I understand the European experience is a different animal altogether. Sure, when I go there (someday!) I'll still try to rack up the vert, but it will all be planned around where lunch is going to be, and seeing all the different villages that would be reachable from our home base.

Nothing wrong with that approach. Doing a dudes' trip to Europe minus wife and kids may be a nonstarter. You really need to go for a week to make the flights worthwhile.

 

[Jacob]

That would be me to some extent.

The issue is it's difficult to get a group to hop on a plane and fly somewhere without their families and spouses unless the costs are extremely reasonable. So when I plan out our annual trips, I try to minimize the sticker shock as much as possible so when the itinerary is presented to the wives, we get as many approvals as we can.

I forgot to mention that, if you’re travelling in a group and looking to keep costs down, then you should really be looking to stay in self catered apartments. They’re not very glamorous, but they’re cheaper than staying in hotels, especially with the option of stocking up at the grocery store and eating in.

I stayed in a studio apartment in Val d’Isere a few years ago that easily fit three adults for less than what I could find for a room for two in a hotel.

 

[JoeSchmoe]

On the subject of lodging, as far as I can tell, most European double rooms are usually just one big bed? That's a little too cozy for guys trips... We want our own beds!