Getting on race skis - benefits? Recommended? Recommendations?

[Tony S]

SL skis are not a good entry into carving, or to develop carving skills at those earlier stages, because when they do engage it all happens very fast

That's precisely why I think they ARE good. The biggest issue most newcomers to carved turns have is insufficient patience. If you're on an 18m ski you have to be going a buck ten and have lots of elbow room before they're really going to come around. If nothing else, we simple don't always have that kind of acreage available here in the east. You're in the freaking trees or taking out three groms before you actually make a turn.

 

[oldschoolskier]

If you ski SL skis slow on easy slopes they carve and behave like GS skis at a walking pace, though no speed to mask your mistakes.

For beginners that major side cut actually encourages getting on the edge. Rebound only really starts when you start and drive them, at the beginner level most can't do this so its not an issue.

If you can get SL skis up to a pace that they get twitchy you are a good skier and the conversation is a mute point.

 

[slow-line-fast]

I’m thinking of this kind of ski for early developing carving skills: similar radius to SL but easier flexing so more accessible. I don’t know the models so can’t say much about one vs another of these types of ski.

2021 Head V-Shape V8

Andy Mink: The all-new Head V8 should be a force in the intermediate to advanced market. With a shape similar to the very successful Supershape series, the V8 is a carving machine; at the same time, it is not as demanding as its iBrethren. It is one of those skis capable of giving more when...

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[4ster]

For beginners that major side cut actually encourages getting on the edge. Rebound only really starts when you start and drive them, at the beginner level most can't do this so its not an issue.

This has been my experience as well. I will add that remaining on gentle terrain, a generic 1° base 2°-3° side bevel & shorter is better till you get the hang of it.
Of course a good balanced boot fit trumps all else!

 

[James]

is there a minimum skill level you'd say would be needed to have it not be a waste to buy slalom skis?

Relatively good control of fore/aft. It’s a fairly low bar. If they’re still in the mode of panicking, throwing arns up in the air, and sitting back, stiff tails will just accentuate the acceleration.

Relatively decent boot fit. If boots are way too big, you’ll roll around inside the boot and lateral ski control is difficult and random. (Wide skis might help self medicate that issue.)

It’s not like you’re suddenly going to turn into a snarling Marcel Hirscher. Or, need the skills he has to use them. A one degree base bevel would be appropriate.

 

[Yepow]

I can't wait to get out on the snow and see what the working on fore/aft and the new boot fit will do for me this year! I think we'll survive on the AXs without a pair of SLs just yet

 

[DocGKR]

There is a huge difference between the AX and a FIS SL--the SL will make you a much better skier, particularly with some good coaching......

 

[LiquidFeet]

There is a huge difference between the AX and a FIS SL--the SL will make you a much better skier, particularly with some good coaching......

Skis making a skier a better skier is always iffy.

It totally depends on whether the skills are there but latent because the current skis are holding the skier back from fully expressing those hidden skills. If they are there, put the skier on the new skis and magic will happen, and the skier will know it.

If the skills are absent, then those skills have to be built. So the issue becomes whether that skill building will happen best on the current skis or the ones under discussion.

Good coaching is always a good thing when building skills. But we all know that finding good coaching is also iffy.

 

[4ster]

There is a huge difference between the AX and a FIS SL--the SL will make you a much better skier, particularly with some good coaching......

True but not as big a gap as the AX to some wide, floppy rockered, powder plank!

 

[Yepow]

Would love the good coaching Pretty far away from a location where I'll get that Masters coaching, however. Finding a way to get coaching is tough. No good coaches in my province, can't join a masters group for itinerant travels to AB/BC because my timing is around vacation and staying married, not a coaching schedule, and haven't found a resort instructor at the resorts I frequent who I can click with as a project (plus it's preetty pricy to take those lessons a la carte at resort rates). Online coaching would be possible but there's no feedback loop on the 5 minute scale and worse, you can't take video easily on days when you're skiing alone, which is the time you'd want to be drilling a lot.

Can assert that the skills aren't latently there yet, but the motivation is. Learned a lot this summer though, did a lot of ski-specific dryland training/BPS stuff, got well-fit boots at this point we hope... now time to get on the snow!

 

[slow-line-fast]

@Yepow sounds like you are already on a good ski for your skiing development. Keep going!

 

[James]

Can assert that the skills aren't latently there yet, but the motivation is. Learned a lot this summer though, did a lot of ski-specific dryland training/BPS stuff, got well-fit boots at this point we hope... now time to get on the snow!

Honestly, you are a prime candidate for the skis we’re talking about. Don’t bother with consumer slaloms, though I would highly consider the 157/58 fis versions.

Look, $400. There’s a reason they’ve sold.

Sold - Brand New Fischer RC4 World Cup SL 165cm $400

For sale are brand new Fischer RC4 World Cup SL skis. 165 cm in length, race code 2081. Genuine Fischer race room skis. 54 flex. Curv booster race plate compatible with Fischer, Tyrolia, Head, Elan Freeflex, Race Service bindings & Attack2’s. Bindings not included in sale. These are obviously...

www.skitalk.com

 

[slow-line-fast]

errrr… not sure we want to go inverse blister on this

 

[James]

We had pages of technique discussion with @Yepow last season. It’s hardly a generic recommendation. Not to mention we’re peddling twin tip factions to anyone with a pulse.

 

[Raymond Slarver]

First of all, I just want to say that there's been a ton of really informative and helpful info in the responses here - thanks all!

@Raymond Slarver, I've quoted above some things you said in your OP.

1. What specific things listed in the Level III skiing exam do you already know you need to work on?
2. What kind of skiing do you typically do when you are not teaching?
3. What skis do you use most often?

If people here knew these things, perhaps the usefulness of skiing on FIS race skis of some sort (I'm presuming as a daily driver) would become clearer.

1. As far as fundamentals go - everything could be polished, but nothing stands out as just totally rotten, I'd say? After some clinics (including with demo team members) last season I was working on fore/aft balance in general, and my upper body posture/movement patterns in particular. I tended to stand a little erect, even when I thought my upper body was where it needed to be. This summer I've been working to strengthen core and hips, both in the gym and dynamically (lots of time on inline skates)
Like I alluded to somewhere earlier, LIII is a big objective or target, but refining my skiing is the greater goal for me. I try to go into a season with some general ideal I want to work on all season in mind - last season it was developing a feel for the snow. This coming season I think it's going to be really nailing down an efficient, stacked position through all the stages of the turn, in whatever terrain I choose. That was part of my thinking behind getting on SL skis, at least some of the time - to get on skis that are going to demand I up my technical chops, on the hunch that that'll have across-the-board benefits. It's fun to get better, anyway.
I'll try to drop some video for MA sometime this season.
2. A little bit of everything, I'd say. Where I ski the most (Catskills), a good winter means I'll aim to ski ~75/25 on-piste/off - but we don't always have those conditions, especially recently. I'm pretty decent on steeps (e.g. honest northeastern blacks) when I'm feeling the mood, though a lot less into steep when it's like, glare-icy and/or flattish light. I'm not hungering to get to no-fall-zone chutes or anything, tbh - not that we have much of that here. I love a good glade, but get to do that less often unless I go further north or west. My bump skiing has gotten significantly better in recent years, but it still could get better - this is a matter of me getting better at picking lines as much as anything technical. On deep-rutted, irregular crapped-up bumps on steep terrain I struggle - that's probably the worst aspect of my skiing.
I like to go fast but also have a mental speed limit. Strong self-preservation instinct here
3. Mostly my Kastle MX83s the last few seasons, though I got my hands on a pair of those Crosson Dissenter 78s at the start of last season and gave them a lot of run, too.

 

[TheApprentice]

I can not recommend fis slalom skis. I have to admit that fis slaloms skis are pretty much the single best option for carved performance turns. If you're not very experienced in skiing this kind of ski and turn, then they'll more likely just throw you off of them rather than do what you want them to do. Though if you get a very used pair from somebody like a fis racer, then they could be worn down enough to not have such a bronco like experience. To learn how to properly carve turns and really bend the ski, then a "masters/cheater" slalom ski would probably work better for you. Some other commenters have already recommended some good options like the Head esl (previously the isl) or the fischer rc4. I have also skied the blizzard firebird, nordica doberman, and the dynastar master options and can wholeheartedly recommend those.

As for fis GS, if you want to do any kind of carved turn on those, do not get them. Those skis can and will seriously injure you, in the pursuit of carving them. would instead recommend the cheater gs skis as others have said like a 21m or less radius ski.

In conclusion, a (very) used pair of fis slaloms or an older pair of head esl/isl or an older pair of fischer rc4 sc would work pretty well for you. Especially since the well used pair of slalom skis can be found for decent prices, though they will look pretty banged up and likely not have a whole lot of edge left if that's something you care about. But a used/older pair of a masters slalom ski would probably be the best choice for you since certain models can feel like a proper slalom ski, just without the untamed animal feeling to them.

 

[Tony Storaro]

That's precisely why I think they ARE good. The biggest issue most newcomers to carved turns have is insufficient patience. If you're on an 18m ski you have to be going a buck ten and have lots of elbow room before they're really going to come around. If nothing else, we simple don't always have that kind of acreage available here in the east. You're in the freaking trees or taking out three groms before you actually make a turn.

True.
I can't help but admire the wisdom of my local ski schools-all newbs on under 80 mm, under 15m ski.

You are a beginner? Take these and go practice, you will get better. When you get better come back, we will give you some race-ish carvers.
Oh you want 90+mm? You want them fat? Nah, no can do, we don't do that here.

 

[Tony Storaro]

I can't wait to get out on the snow and see what the working on fore/aft and the new boot fit will do for me this year! I think we'll survive on the AXs without a pair of SLs just yet

On the AX you will be perfectly fine. Been there done that.

 

[Tony Storaro]

There is a huge difference between the AX and a FIS SL--the SL will make you a much better skier, particularly with some good coaching......

For an absolute beginner who skis very slowly-maybe, but for the intermediate who increases the speed I beg to differ. Someone who wants to move faster but still is not capable to fully control the temperament of SL ski very quickly discovers new and interesting meanings of "suffering".

 

[KingGrump]

For an absolute beginner who skis very slowly-maybe, but for the intermediate who increases the speed I beg to differ. Someone who wants to move faster but still is not capable to fully control the temperament of SL ski very quickly discovers new and interesting meanings of "suffering".

Learn to ski well slowly. Speed will come.

Speed hides a multitude of sins.