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Gym exercises for mogul absorption (frontside & backside)

recbumper

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I was at the gym today working with a trainer. We did 2 exercises which felt like good, fun approximations of mogul absorption motions/efforts.

1) Frontside/absorption start. For the frontside of the mogul, the absorption motion is a dynamic heel-pull (starts absorption). The gym training/physical strength buildup exercise we did is to lie on your back on an 18" or 24" box, with heels in TRX stirrups. Then do a hamstring curl (8-12 reps). Feels quite a lot like the dynamic feeling of the heelpull on the frontside.
<Another version of this is to put the heels up on a Swiss ball and do heelpulls. I found the feet in stirrups felt quite a lot more dynamic & more similar to real-life mogul motion than on the ball, prob cause more complete foot-to-foot isolation, and especially cause the heels are free in space like on skis, unlike on the ball..> In a real mogul run you are doing 20-100+ turns with 20-30 lbs. weight (pulling back the weight of yr skis+boots+bindings). In the gym exercise you are doing 8-12 reps (3-4 sets) with 100-200lbs weight (your bodyweight) so you are building strength/power for an approx comparable motion.

2) Backside/extension. for the backside of the mogul (extension), the quads always get tired on the extensions late in the ski day. Gym exercise is a power exercise. You set up a 24" box near a wall. You are gonna squat down putting your tail onto the box. You take a midweight medicine ball. You squat down holding the medicine ball. You stand up dynamically and throw the medicine ball up against the wall above you, as it comes down you catch it and squat down to the box. Repeat 8-12 reps, 3-4 sets. This builds strength & power in a way very similar to extension on the backside of the mogul.
< The medicine-ball throw is quite a lot like Heather McPhie's pre-season workout video, just a bit more focused cause it adds the squat which she doesn't have in the vid. >

Obviously the one huuuge thing that is missing is the incredible Woinngg between the frontside & the backside where the ski tip hits the frontside face and bends way up in front of you and you have to keep your balance until it snaps down on the backside. Not sure how to work on that part in the gym hahaha. But anyway that's more of a balance & technique thing than a strength thing with the big muscles which these 2 exercises are kindof working on.

It'll be fun to see how these help when we get out to PSI camp at Mt. Hood end of July a coupla months from now.

A couple of years ago before camp I was working on hamstrings with a ham curl liedown bench. That was lots of work & pure strength, but it was a much more simplified motion where you do the rigid range that the bench has, not the equipment helps you with the range-of-motion that You have. I liked the TRX stirrup version from today a lot better.

Jones Suxx

Peace All
 
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Dave Marshak

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The absorption phase is the most difficult for me. When you suck up your knees to absorb, your leg muscles pull your ppelvis forward. You need a strong core to prevent your pelvis from rotating forward and pulling your spine out of alignment. Anyone with weak back is gonna struggle in moguls. Long term office workers are often out of alignmnet before they start.
Your approach seems to be mostly about extension, which is the easy part for me.

dm
 
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recbumper

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> When you suck up your knees to absorb, your leg muscles pull your ppelvis forward.

...Don't suck up your knees. The knees are largely irrelevant for modern absorption. Instead, pull your heels back & upward. <obviously the knees bend some, but that is a consequence, not the active action. The active action is the heel-pull up & backward.> When you pull the heels, that gets the motion started in the right direction (backwards), and so you are already counteracting the tendency of the pelvis to rotate forward.

Totally agree about alignment - want to stay aligned.
 

Dave Marshak

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I can't figure out what that React machine is even after I followed the link, but strength machines are generally a mistake for athletic training. Machines isolate muscles in a way that does not necesarily develop core strength. Free weights train your muscles to work together to balance and control the weight. A leg press sled takes your back out of the load path and will develop quad strength faster than free weight squats, but do you really want your legs to be strong to lift more than your back can support?

dm
 

Dave Marshak

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...Don't suck up your knees.
Watch the first Jonny Mosely video again. His torso is stable but his knees are up almost to his hips, and that's without falling out of balance the way I always do.
Until you are an elite competitior, skiing is all about core strength and stability, not leg strength. When someone tells me they need to get to the gym to work on leg muscles, it's a sure thing that they are skiing from the back seat.

dm
 

Dave Marshak

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Nothing like any of those other machines you mention.
It's a little bit like other machines. It eliminates the risk of dropping a 55 pound weight on your foot, and it's too big and expensive for most people to have in their home. That's why gym owners love machines. I'll pass on all of them.

dm
 

Wendy

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The absorption phase is the most difficult for me. When you suck up your knees to absorb, your leg muscles pull your ppelvis forward. You need a strong core to prevent your pelvis from rotating forward and pulling your spine out of alignment. Anyone with weak back is gonna struggle in moguls. Long term office workers are often out of alignmnet before they start.
Your approach seems to be mostly about extension, which is the easy part for me.

dm
In the past I’ve had days when I’ve woken up with a sore back after practicing in a bump run the day before. That experience and a few others woke me up and now I do pushups and planks every morning as part of my routine. I’m hoping next year I’ll see a bit of a difference.
 
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recbumper

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> ...his knees are up almost to his hips

Yes, that was the older-school absorption approach in the 90s-00s. Lately the technique has evolved and by & large now it is about how high in back you can pull your heels straight up, rather than how high in front you can lift your knees. Jonny is an awesome skier but the specific technique has evolved some from how they were doing it then to how the top competitors are doing it now (e.g. Mikael Kingsbury, Perrine Laffont, Ben Cavet etc.)

Thus in the gym the focus on the fun frontside TRX heel-pull as the first exercise. The squats with medicine ball are pretty much secondary, just cause the quads do need some training to help 'em endure thru a day on the bumps. But technique-wise that is the second step rather than the first, and the heel-pull is much more crucial than the extension...
 
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Dave Marshak

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.. that was the older-school absorption approach in the 90s-00s. Lately the technique has evolved and by & large now it is about how high in back you can pull your heels straight up...
Whatever. You're still gonna need a strong core to stabilize your hips.
Strength training to duplicate ski movements is no tvery effective. The strength you need is the strength to bring your body back into balance when you make some disfunctional movement. It's like you are trying to learn skills in the gym. That never works. Build core strength, flexibilty and balance in the gym. Then the strength to perform ski movements will come quickly on the snow as skill developes.

dm
 

Dave Marshak

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Assuming that using the machine in the forward direction helps correct forward pelvis rotation, does using the machine backward trigger the correct sequence of hamstring activation?
How does standing on a moving platform correct hip rotation? How does it compare to trainng on bosus aor balance balls or other unstable sufaces?
Nothing has changed my opinion that machines are all about selling memberships and limiting training injuries in the gym. I'm pretty sure I'm not gonna see one of those in the USOC training center in Lake Placid.

dm
 

cantunamunch

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How does standing on a moving platform correct hip rotation? How does it compare to trainng on bosus aor balance balls or other unstable sufaces?

How does training on bosus or other unstable surfaces even relate to standing on a moving platform with a bigger speed change than your walking speed? Or anyone's, short of Olympic speedwalkers?

How does changing your opinion answer my question?
 
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recbumper

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> It's like you are trying to learn skills in the gym. That never works. Build core strength, flexibilty and balance in the gym. Then the strength to perform ski movements will come quickly on the snow as skill developes.



Bez kommentariev
 

James

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2812462B-43C1-4EAE-A460-92801A183056.png

Moseley type exercise, no?
 

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