How do you know how tight your boots should be?

[AmyPJ]

I haven't read the entire thread. Has anyone asked about footbeds? A good supportive footbed will pull those toes back a few mm. And as we all know, a mm is a mile in a ski boot.

 

[Tricia]

Notes I took from today:

- Rubbing sensation on inner heel (behind inside ankle); both left and right boot
- Lots of pressure when tightented down on top of left food; right food not as bad but still aches
- Bottom of left foot really sore immediately following run (front of arch, behind toes); right foot aches but not unbearable
- Toes okay (although big left toe is sore tonight), shins okay

Custom footbed. My bootfitter was StartHaus in Truckee (recommended from here).

The big issue is pain on my instep. Left boot is the worst but both are very noticeable if clamped down (see below, though).





This makes me feel better. Wondering if I'm just cranking my boots down too hard. Towards the end of the day I just buckled my top buckle. Left my bottom three (towards my toes) unbuckled. Felt fine then.

I think my biggest issue is being able to tell if my performance is "good enough" without buckling down my boots. Think that's what this thread is about. At least for me. How do I know if my boots are performing well enough for how tight they are? Realize that's an experience thing. Intermediate skiier here so that's tough to tell for me. Averaging 10+ days/season—which is a lot for me.

Your boots should be snug like a very firm handshake, but it sounds like you're having some hot spots that need to be addressed.
You may need to go back to Start Haus and have your boots adjusted. Its not unusual to have some tweaks like a punch or some such.

 

[Ogg]

Your boots should be snug like a very firm handshake, but it sounds like you're having some hot spots that need to be addressed.
You may need to go back to Start Haus and have your boots adjusted. Its not unusual to have some tweaks like a punch or some such.

I'm pretty sure my boots still could use some tweaking after skiing them for 2 1/2 seasons.

 

[mister moose]

Each buckle has its own job. The two bottom buckles keep the snow out. The lower cuff buckle has an effect on the flex. The upper cuff buckle adds control.

I think the second buckle does more than keep the snow out.

The most common cause of black/lost toenails is boots that are too large. The foot slides fore and aft within the boot and bangs the nail against the front on each forward surge. Read @Mike Thomas post in the “How should new boots feel” thread and take it seriously

yes, but not always.

There are often side effects of over terraining yourself.

Not primarily a boot thing, but maybe in the way you imply. This is very true overall, outside of boot fitting.

I’d argue that getting into a smaller boot will force you to stay forward because of the incentive not to have your toes pushing the front of the boot.

Maybe, but sounds like a low return investment to me. Far better to ski to the carrot of skiing the whole foot, mainly centered but aware of fore aft pressure controls, than the stick of pain of a small boot thinking it will change the focus.

This is a great thread, and a subject that needs to be absorbed by aspiring novices and intermediates.

My additions are

The second buckle addresses the instep pressure, maintaining good contact on the footbed. Once you have a mold of your foot, you want to be on it all the time. Yes, skiing unbuckled is a great exercise, but we don't ski like that, not when we are using strong vertical components in our skiing. Third buckle is the heel pocket and general aft volume. 4th buckle is fine edge control, and the bigger your turn forces the tighter this needs to be. So "Race fit" might be a misnomer. It's really a dynamic range fit, not a concept reserved just for racers.

And all this needs to be with no pain, not the pain of hard points or chafing or cut off circulation. Forward shin pressure tenderness? Suck that one up, that's one the 5 day a year skier needs to get used to.

With this much emphasis and fitting on my boots, I still can get toe bang. For me its a temperature thing. I just don't have the same fit at 60 degrees as I do at 20 degrees. So far I only ski one pair of boots, but to solve that I could have 3 boots for cold, medium and warm skiing. My ski shop would love me if I did.

 

[AtleB]

I like boots that fit so snuggly that I can only wear a real thin sock. If I wear a slightly thicker sock my feet will cramp up. The boots are also tight enough that I can ski pretty decently without using the buckles, something I often do when following my kids around (on groomers).

 

[Dwight]

@ppg677 did you get boots yet? Where in Wis. have you tried?

 

[Noodler]

I think the second buckle does more than keep the snow out.


yes, but not always.


Not primarily a boot thing, but maybe in the way you imply. This is very true overall, outside of boot fitting.



Maybe, but sounds like a low return investment to me. Far better to ski to the carrot of skiing the whole foot, mainly centered but aware of fore aft pressure controls, than the stick of pain of a small boot thinking it will change the focus.

This is a great thread, and a subject that needs to be absorbed by aspiring novices and intermediates.

My additions are

The second buckle addresses the instep pressure, maintaining good contact on the footbed. Once you have a mold of your foot, you want to be on it all the time. Yes, skiing unbuckled is a great exercise, but we don't ski like that, not when we are using strong vertical components in our skiing. Third buckle is the heel pocket and general aft volume. 4th buckle is fine edge control, and the bigger your turn forces the tighter this needs to be. So "Race fit" might be a misnomer. It's really a dynamic range fit, not a concept reserved just for racers.

And all this needs to be with no pain, not the pain of hard points or chafing or cut off circulation. Forward shin pressure tenderness? Suck that one up, that's one the 5 day a year skier needs to get used to.

With this much emphasis and fitting on my boots, I still can get toe bang. For me its a temperature thing. I just don't have the same fit at 60 degrees as I do at 20 degrees. So far I only ski one pair of boots, but to solve that I could have 3 boots for cold, medium and warm skiing. My ski shop would love me if I did.

Buckles 2 and 3 both provide the heel lock. They work together in a 4 buckle overlap boot.

The top buckle controls the responsiveness of the boot. It's not about turn forces. Most top level skiers leave it looser to decrease any suddenness in boot reaction to leg movements. More technical skiing (SL, GS) is run tighter.

 

[Uncle-A]

I like boots that fit so snuggly that I can only wear a real thin sock. If I wear a slightly thicker sock my feet will cramp up. The boots are also tight enough that I can ski pretty decently without using the buckles, something I often do when following my kids around (on groomers).

I have to agree, the thin socks limited amount of pressure on buckles. I have taken some heat from others when I say that a buckle is more about closing the boot than fitting the boot. IMHO the two middle buckles of a four buckle ski boot are the only important ones. Now that is more about the individual foot and not about how the boot fits at the calf, those with a thick calf may not use the top buckle and those with a thin calf will find the top buckle important.

 

[Ogg]

I like boots that fit so snuggly that I can only wear a real thin sock. If I wear a slightly thicker sock my feet will cramp up. The boots are also tight enough that I can ski pretty decently without using the buckles, something I often do when following my kids around (on groomers).

On the second day out in my current boots I made the mistake of putting on a very slightly thicker pair of socks than I was fitted in . The heel pain on one foot was unbearable. I had to get the boot off immediately and wait about 10 minutes for the pain to subside enough to get it back on with a thinner sock. The spot was a bit tender for weeks. I now ski in the thinnest socks I could find.

 

[Uncle-A]

On the second day out in my current boots I made the mistake of putting on a very slightly thicker pair of socks than I was fitted in . The heel pain on one foot was unbearable. I had to get the boot off immediately and wait about 10 minutes for the pain to subside enough to get it back on with a thinner sock. The spot was a bit tender for weeks. I now ski in the thinnest socks I could find.

I started using thin socks years ago, but that was more about my extra wide feet as well as the fact that my feet rarely got cold. I still use them today but my feet tend to be more aware of the cold than they use to be. I guess it is all about circulation now and that the boot doesn't cut off the circulation.

 

[mister moose]

The top buckle controls the responsiveness of the boot. It's not about turn forces. Most top level skiers leave it looser to decrease any suddenness in boot reaction to leg movements. More technical skiing (SL, GS) is run tighter.

I'd be interested to hear more about this. It runs counter to what I would expect. I run tighter for performance, looser for comfort, circulation, lift lines, low challenge skiing, etc. To me, top level skiing is all about precision and response, not decreasing either of those.

 

[markojp]

I'd be interested to hear more about this. It runs counter to what I would expect. I run tighter for performance, looser for comfort, circulation, lift lines, low challenge skiing, etc. To me, top level skiing is all about precision and response, not decreasing either of those.

Depends on how stiff a boot we're talking about.

 

[Noodler]

I'd be interested to hear more about this. It runs counter to what I would expect. I run tighter for performance, looser for comfort, circulation, lift lines, low challenge skiing, etc. To me, top level skiing is all about precision and response, not decreasing either of those.

 

[Noodler]

I started using thin socks years ago, but that was more about my extra wide feet as well as the fact that my feet rarely got cold. I still use them today but my feet tend to be more aware of the cold than they use to be. I guess it is all about circulation now and that the boot doesn't cut off the circulation.

Since we're talking socks, I started using compression socks when I came back to skiing a couple seasons ago. I had to do so for health reasons, but I quickly saw the light and realized that I should have been using compression ski socks a long time ago. The benefits of a sock with true compression are amazing for multiple reasons. They never slip or slide at all, so no chance of developing a blister if your boot fit isn't quite up to par. They help deliver a "consistent" foot shape and volume for each ski day (our feet can vary depending on elevation, what you ate, etc.). They improve blood flow, thus in turn actually help your feet stay warmer. I could go on and on as to why I'm loving them. I finally found some on Amazon that are excellent and aren't $50 a pair.

 

[Uncle-A]

Since we're talking socks, I started using compression socks when I came back to skiing a couple seasons ago. I had to do so for health reasons, but I quickly saw the light and realized that I should have been using compression ski socks a long time ago. The benefits of a sock with true compression are amazing for multiple reasons. They never slip or slide at all, so no chance of developing a blister if your boot fit isn't quite up to par. They help deliver a "consistent" foot shape and volume for each ski day (our feet can vary depending on elevation, what you ate, etc.). They improve blood flow, thus in turn actually help your feet stay warmer. I could go on and on as to why I'm loving them. I finally found some on Amazon that are excellent and aren't $50 a pair.

Thanks for sharing this, I have thought about compression socks, although I have had issues getting very tight socks over my high instep. I had to stop using two pairs of my favorite thin socks because getting them off after a day of skiing was such an ordeal. I was wondering if you or anyone has tried CooperFit socks every once in a while I see them at a reduced price and was wondering if they are worth it.

 

[crgildart]

mm is a mile in a ski boot.

Signature material up there!

 

[mister moose]

He says right off the bat, full tightness for carving on a steeper, firmer snow slope. He then eases off the power strap only for softer snow. I'm really not saying anything different. He goes on to looser setting for powder and intermediate level skiing. And he's skiing a very stiff boot.

Don't forget your western bias vs my eastern bias. We get a lot more firm snow here.

I stand by my turning force generates the need for responsiveness on firm snow comment. Any lateral movement of the boot relative to your Calf/shin/tibia is going to decrease the precision of the edge angle and support needed to maintain that angle. Higher forces = more liner and flesh squish and more movement to hold that pressured edge. The boot needs to be tighter. Soft snow does what? Decreases forces. More yield of the snow. So decreased need for that precision under load characteristic (load is less), and you can ease off the tightness some without a resultant loss in precision. Under zero load, the softest boot will track precisely. We just are ever so rarely interested in that case.

Even in powder, full flotation ski immersed powder, the need exists to be precise. Who hasn't experienced the diverging skis that once started is hard to reel in, and is one of several skills the new powder skier needs to learn: increased need for uniform (L&R) steering and angle inputs. The need to be precise. Lateral loads are less, boot settings can be relaxed, but the boot still needs to be tight enough to move the ski with precision; when immersed, both skis are tracking full length all the time. Sloppy inputs are not rewarded.

 

[Noodler]

He says right off the bat, full tightness for carving on a steeper, firmer snow slope. He then eases off the power strap only for softer snow. I'm really not saying anything different. He goes on to looser setting for powder and intermediate level skiing. And he's skiing a very stiff boot.

Don't forget your western bias vs my eastern bias. We get a lot more firm snow here.

I stand by my turning force generates the need for responsiveness on firm snow comment. Any lateral movement of the boot relative to your Calf/shin/tibia is going to decrease the precision of the edge angle and support needed to maintain that angle. Higher forces = more liner and flesh squish and more movement to hold that pressured edge. The boot needs to be tighter. Soft snow does what? Decreases forces. More yield of the snow. So decreased need for that precision under load characteristic (load is less), and you can ease off the tightness some without a resultant loss in precision. Under zero load, the softest boot will track precisely. We just are ever so rarely interested in that case.

Even in powder, full flotation ski immersed powder, the need exists to be precise. Who hasn't experienced the diverging skis that once started is hard to reel in, and is one of several skills the new powder skier needs to learn: increased need for uniform (L&R) steering and angle inputs. The need to be precise. Lateral loads are less, boot settings can be relaxed, but the boot still needs to be tight enough to move the ski with precision; when immersed, both skis are tracking full length all the time. Sloppy inputs are not rewarded.

I think we agree on how these changes impact the skiing. I just don't think of it as "turn forces", but rather tuning the boot responsiveness.

 

[Uncle-A]

I think we agree on how these changes impact the skiing. I just don't think of it as "turn forces", but rather tuning the boot responsiveness.

Boot responsiveness is the key, when selling a boot I always referred to transfer of action from the foot to the ski. If you have a secure boot the ski responds to every action of the foot, that is both correct movement or incorrect movement. That is a non forgiving boot generally what advanced level skiers want. A newer skier wants a bit of a more forgiving boot. Now you don't have to give up fit but find a boot that is not as beefy. Softer plastic, less rigid forward lean, but the fit should be still firm.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

I could go on and on as to why I'm loving them. I finally found some on Amazon that are excellent and aren't $50 a pair.

Care to share which ones? Been thinking about trying some, but $50 is abit hard to try something I may toss after a day.
-Chris