How much should I expect to pay for decent all season tires?

[François Pugh]

Many jurisdictions forbid studs. For that reason I chose to run the non-studded Hakka R2s on my Mazda 3. Even if I knew I would be in a place that allowed studs, it would have been a close call, as most of my driving is on bare or wet pavement. Micheline X-ice III would also be acceptable (but he Hakkas are better). Tire design is a compromise between the best solution for ice, the best solution for deep snow, the best solution for dry pavement, the best solution for wet pavement, the best solution for mud, the best solution for snow, etc. In winter, I prefer to have the best tires for the worse conditions I encounter; I can easily live and avoid accidents with most reputable tires in good conditions.

You are definitely safer driving slowly in the cleared lane on your mid-pack snow tires or all-weather tires than you would be passing in the slush-covered passing lane at 60+mph with your Hakkas. It's on you to decide how safe to be when you drive, no matter what tires you have on the vehicle.

Unless the surface is deep snow or sand, there is an advantage to not locking up your tires, so if you haven't got an ABS left foot use the computer's ABS (even though the noise of the ABS is irritating).

It was a studded tire using antique technology that the early Blizzak commercials used to show how superior their non-studded winter tires were better than. Just because the tire is studded doesn't mean it's better. Sipes aren't the whole story either.

 

[Monique]

@nay - so, distilled down, is your suggestion that I should use hybrid tires year round on an Outback that is mostly a commuter between Longmont and Boulder, but also does a lot of I-70 in rough conditions, and gets used for one or two 1000 mile trips a year?

I feel that there may be some drift into straw man territory above ... Just because tire A is better in snow/ice than tire B, does not preclude tire B from being a significant upgrade over tire C. I have found X-Ices on the 2008 Outback to be significantly better than my all seasons on the same. However, I can't find a record from Discount Tire of the tire purchase, so it's possible Eric bought them elsewhere or they got lost in the ether, or who knows. I handed over the records when I sold the car.

I do see that I paid $850 for the X-Ices including install in 2011, and in 2010 we bought Michelin Primacy MXV4 which ended up being $920 with install.

I'm slightly embarrassed if it turns out we consistently overspent, but the fact is that we were in a different financial situation than I am now. It didn't seem like it mattered much at the time. It matters now.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I’ve had a set of Conti DWS Extremes (shortly after they first cane out) and later DWS (as the replacement tire for those) over all they are a good tires. Drove them a lot through winter conditions and hard summer driving.

Here’s what they do and don’t do.

• Do not meet the mileage claims (tire life claims), because as they seem age poorly (could be a Conti thing a and not a DWS thing)
• Winter traction is good, though not the same as winter tires.
• Summer (sports) handling pretty good, though traction drops off at about the 50% wear mark, rubber hardens or is harder to increase life.
• Wet handling not bad, definitely better new and acceptable older (on par with other tires). Note there is a point when wet traction drops off there is still tread left by expections you would expect some, but that is not the case.
• The Extremes where definitely a better tire, but at the cost compared to other solutions ????, which is why I bought the regular DWS’s
• Noisy. No matter how you slice it they are noisy tires.

I have since gone to dedicated off brand summers and off brand winters. Both seem to perform better in their element and cost very little more for 2 sets of tires vs 1. Neither are as noisy as the DWS tire and combined have better tire life. IMHO DWS tires are a good all season, though not a winter tire replacement.

If you are a one tire does it all person get good all seasons and a set of tire chains. They will get you through just about anything and when it’s bad slip on the chains and drive slow. I've done that for years (including Toronto, where chains are only legal when conditions warrant, which is less than 1% of the time, usually when the snow clearing contractors screw up).

Remember great traction only means gets you further, deeper and stuck better because most ignore the warns.

 

[Monique]

If you are a one tire does it all person get good all seasons and a set of tire chains. They will get you through just about anything and when it’s bad slip on the chains and drive slow. I've done that for years (including Toronto, where chains are only legal when conditions warrant, which is less than 1% of the time, usually when the snow clearing contractors screw up).

All good points, but chains are a pain to put on, and there have been various discussions on the forum (maybe not this thread) about how impractical it would be to use chains for I-70.

 

[cantunamunch]

Have you checked to see what hybrids are available in Subie sizes? It is 10 weeks to proper shoulder season and it seems like that is an option that could a lot for your money in the next 6 months.

 

[Monique]

Have you checked to see what hybrids are available in Subie sizes? It is 10 weeks to proper shoulder season and it seems like that is an option that could a lot for your money in the next 6 months.

How would I get that info? I don't see "hybrid" as a filter option on TireRack.com ...

 

[cantunamunch]

How would I get that info? I don't see "hybrid" as a filter option on TireRack.com ...

Direct email question? Or compile a list of known tire models and crosscheck?

 

[scott43]

How would I get that info? I don't see "hybrid" as a filter option on TireRack.com ...

You can look for all-weather I believe..
Here's a Canadian site for your vehicle..
https://www.1010tires.com/Tires/201...-6R-Limited/225-65R17-102H/170787/All+Weather

 

[Monique]

Direct email question? Or compile a list of known tire models and crosscheck?

I suppose. Googling "hybrid tires for subaru outback" seems to return results that don't even relate to hybrids, just outback tires.

You can look for all-weather I believe..
Here's a Canadian site for your vehicle..
https://www.1010tires.com/Tires/201...-6R-Limited/225-65R17-102H/170787/All+Weather

Weird. It lists the OEM as 17". Discount Tire's receipt shows 18". Pretty sure it's 18".

On a tangent, here, but what does that number represent? Is that rim diameter?

How does that number impact driving experience / suitability for different conditions?

 

[cantunamunch]

Weird. It lists the OEM as 17". Discount Tire's receipt shows 18". Pretty sure it's 18".

Tire/rim packages sold as options or packages are not always shown as OEM on tire replacement websites.

On a tangent, here, but what does that number represent? Is that rim diameter?

Yes.

How does that number impact driving experience / suitability for different conditions?

It means that a bigger proportion of the tire/rim combo is rim and not tire. In terms of benefits/drawbacks
a) with a bigger rim the overall combo is lighter, this is good in all conditions
b) with a bigger rim the tire sidewall is shorter, making the tire feel stiffer -> more road feedback and control in dry conditions

There is (c) - you can trade that lightness and apparent tire stiffness back in for a taller tire, which could give you a marginal benefit of being more likely to slice through on-road snow/slush to bare pavement. "Could" and "marginal" because it may not happen when you want it to, and because you may not like what's under the loose material, and because there's a good chance you will lose contact to bare pavement if you're still actively steering or using ABS/VSA.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I feel like I should put on a helmet to go the tire store. Now I realize what people probably feel when they read the ski instruction threads.

I have a 2012 Mini-Countryman AWD. I drive back and forth from Denver to Aspen every weekend from November to April. In the summer, I drive to Aspen once a month or so. I generally keep my winter tires on through the end of May and put them back on October 1. What tires would work best for my situation?

 

[scott43]

Tire/rim packages sold as options or packages are not always shown as OEM on tire replacement websites.

Could also be Canadian spec is different than US spec..very possible.

 

[scott43]

Larger rims is almost entirely fashion-driven. Some performance benefits, mostly in cornering, but really it's more visual than anything for the most part.

 

[Monique]

Now I realize what people probably feel when they read the ski instruction threads.

OMG. You're totally right. I am in completely over my head here. Good thing I shouldn't need to make a decision for at least 2 years, probably more.

On the subject of budgeting ... well, maybe I should start a separate thread, actually.

 

[cantunamunch]

On the subject of budgeting ... well, maybe I should start a separate thread, actually.

 

[nay]

@nay - so, distilled down, is your suggestion that I should use hybrid tires year round on an Outback that is mostly a commuter between Longmont and Boulder, but also does a lot of I-70 in rough conditions, and gets used for one or two 1000 mile trips a year?

I feel that there may be some drift into straw man territory above ... Just because tire A is better in snow/ice than tire B, does not preclude tire B from being a significant upgrade over tire C. I have found X-Ices on the 2008 Outback to be significantly better than my all seasons on the same. However, I can't find a record from Discount Tire of the tire purchase, so it's possible Eric bought them elsewhere or they got lost in the ether, or who knows. I handed over the records when I sold the car.

I do see that I paid $850 for the X-Ices including install in 2011, and in 2010 we bought Michelin Primacy MXV4 which ended up being $920 with install.

I'm slightly embarrassed if it turns out we consistently overspent, but the fact is that we were in a different financial situation than I am now. It didn't seem like it mattered much at the time. It matters now.

Yes, I think where the budget really matters that a hybrid tire makes a ton of sense - these are excellent tires and will be a significant upgrade for the non-winter stuff.

Keep in mind that I only offer this for perspective. I am an outlier in that the worse it is, the more I want to go, and the broader performance envelope is meaningful to me since I would get stuck in some 3D conditions on “winter” tires.

But, I see a lot of these so called truck tires on AWD cars now (I recently saw BFG ko2 on a Lexus AWD sedan) probably in part because of their vast superiority in pushing a bit further off the paved trailheads, like Mohawk.

Here is the Falken AT3W on my 3 ton Sequoia with 37K miles on them. I have rotated these tires once (me and my maintenance habits):

And this is the ko2 with its high real world ice test scores at 43K miles along with quite a bit of not so gentle offroad abuse. Still 7/32 tread and it started with 15/32.

AT3W on pure ice.

ko2 as a post happy hour (^^^ms. nay driving to the local watering hole after it took me 7 hours to get home from not skiing due to a I-70 closure) comparison test. Yes, that is steeper than it looks.

Slight nod to the ko2. Neither tire had any issues driven at proper speeds for...ice...

ko2 with enough forward traction combined with lockers to drag 3 tons all the way to sitting on the frame with all four gently spinning at idle (carry an avy shovel ).

You might want the car versions of a tire like this, but a lot of your peers are jumping ship...

 

[nay]

I feel like I should put on a helmet to go the tire store. Now I realize what people probably feel when they read the ski instruction threads.

I have a 2012 Mini-Countryman AWD. I drive back and forth from Denver to Aspen every weekend from November to April. In the summer, I drive to Aspen once a month or so. I generally keep my winter tires on through the end of May and put them back on October 1. What tires would work best for my situation?

Minis do pretty well in the snow, so you could choose performance in dry conditions and go with one of those newer all weather car tires.

Personally, I view I-70 more as urban warfare with morons than anything else, and if I was in a small car I’d probably choose a premiere winter tire from the perspective of “get out of the way” if say a truck came sliding towards me.

But these newer tires offer more treadlife and better wet conditions performance, and that trip has more exposure to sitting in traffic than anything, so with AWD they might be perfect.

 

[nay]

A vid for @Monique. If you google “BFG ko2 on Outback”, you’ll get tons of hits.

Summer is fun in Colorado. It would be nice to not wear useless summer pavement tires.


And it’s too bad they look awful.

The OWL (outline white letters) can be mounted in, so you get OBL.

Of course in 2 years there will be more advanced tires, but the ko2 topsheet is hard to beat for a wagon.

 

[nay]

Saw this at the Incline trailhead. Even Mercedes drivers have had enough of not having traction.

That’s the Goodyear Duratrac.

I’m personally sick of the Incline.