How to improve as an adult

[hollyberry]

Hey everyone,

I have been skiing for about 6 years now, some years with a decent amount of time on the slopes, (25-30 days when I lived near Hunter Mt) but other years, like 2020 & 2021, not a single day because of grad school and lack of money. I’m at the point where I can get down pretty much any terrain, even the tough ungroomed stuff at JH, Snowbird and Mammoth, safely and keeping my speed in check, but I definitely don’t look ‘cool’ doing it, and I suspect that I could be keeping my feet in much better parallel at all times, more balanced stance, etc. I still struggle to get edge on icy steeps a bit and usually just ski straight over true ice patches and look for softer pockets of snow to turn on. I can do various size/ pitch moguls, but again, definitely am not the fastest or most suave-looking on them! I estimate that I have had about 6 or 7 small group ski lessons in total.

I have a few questions:

1. Since I likely will be mostly skiing at my small, local resorts in PA this year (Roundtop, Whitetail) except for a few short trips to Stowe, what are good drills I can do to improve my technique on groomers and less steep slopes?

2. If I can get a friend to video me while skiing, what would be a helpful thing for me to do in the video to ‘diagnose’ potential technical flaws? What are things I should look for when analyzing the video?

3. Any instructor recommendations near Roundtop, Whitetail or Jack Frost? Any adult ski clinics in those areas worth checking out?

4. Do any of those areas run adult race leagues? I am interested in joining one to work on my technique, but it seems like those mountains only have youth race leagues, no ‘beer leagues…’

Thank you!

 

[Philpug]

Paging @Rudi Riet

I am thinking #4 would be a great start.

 

[mdf]

#2 - if you have a thick skin, posting video here for movement analysis can help a lot.
(I've done it myself on the site's predecessor.) Be forewarned however, even if you are an adult who can (mostly) deal with criticism objectively, it still turns out to be surprisingly difficult emotionally.

 

[Uncle-A]

Since you have been skiing 6 years I am guessing that you are on your first pair of skis, boots and bindings. That probably means your boots are too big, so in order to improve get your self to a boot fitter and get into a properly fit pair of boots. That would be a big improvement to your skiing before you do anything else.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Here's one you can do on your own.

Pick up the inside ski, keep it parallel to the snow, and make your turn. Do this from one turn to another, alternating lifting left ski and right ski. Keep at it until you can control your turn radius. Teach yourself to lift that new inside ski earlier and earlier in the turn.

Why? This exercise will tell you immediately if you are standing on the ski with good balance. If the lifted ski keeps having its tip higher than its tail, you're aft. If the lifted ski's tail keeps being higher than the tip, you're too far forward. Yes, too far.

If you can't control your turn radius, you are either aft or too far forward, and/or not in control of the stance ski's edging, and/or not in control of your lateral balance over that edged stance ski.

We do need to ski from outside ski to outside ski, so this skill is relevant to normal turns as well.

Getting yourself to be able to make controlled turns only on your outside ski will benefit both your fore-aft and your lateral balance. Do this on easy low pitch terrain at first, and work your way up the hill. When the hill overpowers your efforts, go back down and seek success on the easier terrain. Then head back up.

To work your new-found outside ski skills back into personal skiing, progressively lower that inside ski back down so that it's light, not lifted, through your turns. Get to the point when you can lift it in any turn on any terrain. This is a long-term goal, not a quick fix. Its benefits are deep, not shallow.

Can you master this one fast? Then lift the outside ski. Work on lifting it earlier and earlier in the turn. This is much harder.

Note: I haven't described how to shorten your turns when on the outside ski, or how to alternate between skidded turns and carved turns. If you try this exercise and wish to get more info, there's more.

 

[tromano]

#2 - if you have a thick skin, posting video here for movement analysis can help a lot.
(I've done it myself on the site's predecessor.) Be forewarned however, even if you are an adult who can (mostly) deal with criticism objectively, it still turns out to be surprisingly difficult emotionally.

Its worth a try. But I have posted video of myself before. Interpreting that feedback for someone who doesn't know what they are doing wrong is a job in its self. Especially if there are more than one problem or the people providing feedback have differing opinions, which is almost always the case.

To fix the problem you still have to put in the work, getting boots that fit $$, doing drills, and working with an instructor / coach $$. No quick fixes; no free lunches.

My advice once you have boots dialed, save your nickles an plan a trip to a cheap mom and pop ski hill. I know of a few places you can buy a day ticket and a 2 hour private for less than $200. Ask me where if you can't find one. Take a few lessons with and instructor you like. Tip well. And then focus on drills to make permenant any improvements the rest of your season.

Another option would be the taos ski week. See gathering thread for details. https://www.skitalk.com/threads/202...-22-january-29-2022.23625/page-26#post-686993

 

[Rudi Riet]

Hey everyone,

Greetings from the District of Columbia!

1. Since I likely will be mostly skiing at my small, local resorts in PA this year (Roundtop, Whitetail) except for a few short trips to Stowe, what are good drills I can do to improve my technique on groomers and less steep slopes?

@LiquidFeet definitely hit the nail on the head with the exercises given. Outside ski dominance is crucial to improving skiing, and if you try doing this on flat terrain you can't "cheat." Speed from steeps can often mask technical problems. And as stated: it's a long-term goal and won't be fixed in one day.

Also: remember that like a tree every turn starts from the ground up. Starting at the toes and soles of your feet, to the ankles, knees, hips, etc., a turn needs to start from the ground.

2. If I can get a friend to video me while skiing, what would be a helpful thing for me to do in the video to ‘diagnose’ potential technical flaws? What are things I should look for when analyzing the video?

For the first pass, just ski as your normally do. Mix up turn shapes and sizes with each bit of video. Take video on steeps and flats. But start with the baseline of skiing as you usually do.

Things to look for? That's a loaded question and a possible rabbit hole. That said, here are some starting points:

- Fore/aft balance. Ideally your hip axis (e.g. your hip pointers) should be over the ball of your foot (or the AFD on your binding) at the beginning of the turn and never spend a ton of time behind your heel. Being over the ball of your foot requires things like ankle flexion and an active extension of the outside leg.
- Stance. Is it too narrow? Is it too wide? Are you getting parallel shins or an A-frame? Ideally you want a stance where your feet are comfortably wide to provide stability but not so wide that the alignment of your lower legs is taken out of whack. And look at alignment of your legs in general. If you're knock-kneed (pronated) or bow-legged (supinated), you likely need boot alignment work done by a professional - a worthwhile exercise for any skier.
- Outside ski dominance. Enough was explained above.
- In turns on moderate to steeper terrain, look at short leg vs. long leg - i.e. independent leg action. In a dynamic turn the inside leg should be "short" or retracted, while the outside leg should be "long" or extended. This plays into stance: it's really tough to pull off short leg/long leg with your feet glued together.

There are other minor things like arm placement, back curvature, etc., but the basics mentioned above are a great start.

3. Any instructor recommendations near Roundtop, Whitetail or Jack Frost? Any adult ski clinics in those areas worth checking out?

I can speak more to Liberty Mountain for this as it's where I'm HQed (though I'm not an instructor there - the racing team isn't part of the ski school). DM me if you want a few names of good instructors for what you want to do.

4. Do any of those areas run adult race leagues? I am interested in joining one to work on my technique, but it seems like those mountains only have youth race leagues, no ‘beer leagues…’

Sadly not to my knowledge. Masters/adult ski racing only really exists at Elk Mountain these days - a long drive from Ball'mer. There is masters racing in the Southern Alpine Racing Association (SARA) with teams from Virginia having masters programs. Bryce has one, as does Massanutten.

Good luck!

 

[Swede]

Outside to outside is a great excersice.
Dropping your poles and concentrate on your lower body also great as an excersice. Put your hands on your hips or behind your back and think about ankles, knees and hips to create angles (show the underside of your skis to bystanders when you turn).
If you can find a race legaue for beginner adults with coaching, it's hard to beat for rapid development as a skier. But as many are very focused on gate training (tactics) a combinations with a clinic for technique/drills is great.
If you can video yourself, there should be a number of coaches that do analysis (not familiar with US as I'm in Europe) online that you can send to. @Rudi Riet or perhaps @ScotsSkier have names I would think. Posting on here can be good, but might not be for everyone. And a lot of people will make their voice heard. A lot. It is the Interwebz.

 

[dbostedo]

I've had a couple of really good lessons with Patrick McCord at Whitetail, but that was a couple of years ago so I don't know if he's still there and teaching (he was the ski school director at one point so didn't always teach).

Otherwise, you can always call the ski school desks, and take the time to explain your situation and goals. That can help them match you with an appropriate instructor. And I'd recommend a private lesson or two if you can swing the cost. It's expensive, but I've gotten a lot, personally, out of private lessons, even just an hour or two. But it does get expensive fast.

 

[cantunamunch]

I've had a couple of really good lessons with Patrick McCord at Whitetail, but that was a couple of years ago so I don't know if he's still there and teaching (he was the ski school director at one point so didn't always teach).

+ Whitetail used to have womens' weekend clinics. Whether that will be brought back post-Covid

 

[hollyberry]

Since you have been skiing 6 years I am guessing that you are on your first pair of skis, boots and bindings. That probably means your boots are too big, so in order to improve get your self to a boot fitter and get into a properly fit pair of boots. That would be a big improvement to your skiing before you do anything else.

Actually, I’m on my second pair of boots. My first pair, Head Spyre K2 80 flex, were comfy for learning but eventually were not very supportive. Now I’m in a Technica boot, looks like maybe it is called Mach MV or W2W, with 95 flex. Originally, I bought the Head Raptor as my second boot on the recommendation of a boot fitter at Hunter, but it was so damn uncomfortable and unforgiving that I realized I wanted comfort over performance, at least to some degree. I ski on Blizzard Viva 88’s, 160 length.

 

[hollyberry]

+ Whitetail used to have womens' weekend clinics. Whether that will be brought back post-Covid

Hope so! That would be perfect!

 

[hollyberry]

+ Whitetail used to have womens' weekend clinics. Whether that will be brought back post-Covid

Hope so! That would be perfect

Greetings from the District of Columbia!



@LiquidFeet definitely hit the nail on the head with the exercises given. Outside ski dominance is crucial to improving skiing, and if you try doing this on flat terrain you can't "cheat." Speed from steeps can often mask technical problems. And as stated: it's a long-term goal and won't be fixed in one day.

Also: remember that like a tree every turn starts from the ground up. Starting at the toes and soles of your feet, to the ankles, knees, hips, etc., a turn needs to start from the ground.



For the first pass, just ski as your normally do. Mix up turn shapes and sizes with each bit of video. Take video on steeps and flats. But start with the baseline of skiing as you usually do.

Things to look for? That's a loaded question and a possible rabbit hole. That said, here are some starting points:

- Fore/aft balance. Ideally your hip axis (e.g. your hip pointers) should be over the ball of your foot (or the AFD on your binding) at the beginning of the turn and never spend a ton of time behind your heel. Being over the ball of your foot requires things like ankle flexion and an active extension of the outside leg.
- Stance. Is it too narrow? Is it too wide? Are you getting parallel shins or an A-frame? Ideally you want a stance where your feet are comfortably wide to provide stability but not so wide that the alignment of your lower legs is taken out of whack. And look at alignment of your legs in general. If you're knock-kneed (pronated) or bow-legged (supinated), you likely need boot alignment work done by a professional - a worthwhile exercise for any skier.
- Outside ski dominance. Enough was explained above.
- In turns on moderate to steeper terrain, look at short leg vs. long leg - i.e. independent leg action. In a dynamic turn the inside leg should be "short" or retracted, while the outside leg should be "long" or extended. This plays into stance: it's really tough to pull off short leg/long leg with your feet glued together.

There are other minor things like arm placement, back curvature, etc., but the basics mentioned above are a great start.



I can speak more to Liberty Mountain for this as it's where I'm HQed (though I'm not an instructor there - the racing team isn't part of the ski school). DM me if you want a few names of good instructors for what you want to do.



Sadly not to my knowledge. Masters/adult ski racing only really exists at Elk Mountain these days - a long drive from Ball'mer. There is masters racing in the Southern Alpine Racing Association (SARA) with teams from Virginia having masters programs. Bryce has one, as does Massanutten.

Good luck!

Liberty is not too far out of my way, either. I will message you : )

 

[hollyberry]

Posting on here can be good, but might not be for everyone. And a lot of people will make their voice heard. A lot. It is the Interwebz.

LOL. I’m sure you are right!

 

[johnnyvw]

"Can you master this one fast? Then lift the outside ski. Work on lifting it earlier and earlier in the turn. This is much harder."

This exercise definitely took my skiing to a higher level....greatly improves balance in all conditions

 

[recbumper]

Hi Holly. We have an informal gang of 10-20+ folks at Liberty who hang out & work on technique, do video, ski moguls together, etc. It's all loose & informal (and doesn't cost anything ).

We do a lot of the drills described above ^^^ like LiquidFeet's and others, and help each other with learning technique & stuff. Every once in a while we get friends who are current or previous US Ski Team folks to do a bit of commenting/coaching on the videos.

Ages range from kids, several families, up to folks in their 60s-70s. We tend to be mostly at Liberty cause it seems to be more convenient for most of the folks, and every once in a while we make it up to Roundtop or Whitetail. We're mostly over on the back-side trails at Liberty. C'mon and hang out if ya feel like it.

 

[jcjpdx]

This is an interesting question to me. I've had two ski "careers"; I took ski lessons for 5 years in middle school and high school. I was never very good, and eventually quit at age 17 for a variety of reasons. Fast forward 30 years, I took up skiing again in my late forties. That was twenty years ago, and I am a much improved skier than at age 17. Here are several of things I found helpful:

Ditto early weight transfer to the outside foot.

"Practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect." I say this because I became convinced "getting down pretty much any terrain" might not be the best way to improve technique. I practice skiing slowly on groomed runs most every time I ski. It takes more technique to turn while skiing slowly, and skiing in really tough terrain can cause one to fall back into old habits. Then take take your improved technique into more challenging terrain.

Reading Dune. Learning the concept of "Bu Ji", which is defined as "Effortless action, taken from a position of rest, in perfect harmony with the environment." I'm only slightly kidding. I also had a yoga-based physical therapist who taught me to only use the necessary muscles, and relax everything else. Lito Tejada-Flores discusses a similar concept in his book "Soft Skiing."

If you ever figure out how to hold an edge on ice, let the rest of us know. Cheers!

 

[hollyberry]

Hi Holly. We have an informal gang of 10-20+ folks at Liberty who hang out & work on technique, do video, ski moguls together, etc. It's all loose & informal (and doesn't cost anything ).

We do a lot of the drills described above ^^^ like LiquidFeet's and others, and help each other with learning technique & stuff. Every once in a while we get friends who are current or previous US Ski Team folks to do a bit of commenting/coaching on the videos.

Ages range from kids, several families, up to folks in their 60s-70s. We tend to be mostly at Liberty cause it seems to be more convenient for most of the folks, and every once in a while we make it up to Roundtop or Whitetail. We're mostly over on the back-side trails at Liberty. C'mon and hang out if ya feel like it.

That sounds great! Do you have a Facebook page? How can I find where/when to meet up?

 

[hollyberry]

If you ever figure out how to hold an edge on ice, let the rest of us know. Cheers!

Hahah OK so it’s not just me! Those GS downhill skiers look like they are skiing on pure ice sometimes, but they certainly seem to be holding a hell of an edge!!

 

[hollyberry]

Hahah OK so it’s not just me! Those GS downhill skiers look like they are skiing on pure ice sometimes, but they certainly seem to be holding a hell of an edge!!

I mean, the only difference between me and them is 20+ years experience, 10,000 hours of practice and drills, and training from top coaches…. That’s all…