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Let's Play a U.S. Game Again - "Find The TDF" ... :(

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Yo Momma

Yo Momma

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Watched Bobke and Phil on Stg 4 last night just to check out the coverage. Not bad. They have improved. Nowhere near as much detail and focused analysis as GCN+, but pretty good. Lovin' Christian V on the moto. He's more GCN than the rest of the crew.

Paul and his two new cohorts in studio..... ouch .... that was painful to watch! They need some serious practice before they are ready for Primetime. Producers should have picked up the lack of chemistry during practice sessions, if they even bothered to do any. That was amateur hour! :beercheer:
 

jt10000

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I cannot stand people who ran or profited from large-scale doping under Amstrong/Bruyneel era still making money off the notoriety they built during that era. That includes Liggett who was one of the last strong Amstrong apologists/defenders and Bob Roll who was similar. Never watch or listen to any of them. And Bruyneel the unrepentant dope-deal who helped take corruption in the sport to new levels? I don't care how smart he is - I will never listen to him.

Liggett is also often incompetent now. I once compared his commentary in a race with that of Michel Wuyts and others on Belgian TV. I don't speak Flemish, but it was obvious Liggett was misinterpreting what was happening. And in particular predicting things rather than waiting 15 seconds to actual describe what was happening. Oh, and missing a big storyline - a rider he loves was in a long break and he kept going on how that rider was doing so great. Meanwhile Wyuts and crew kept pointing out how that rider looked desperate for a new bottle. He cracked. This was 10 years ago - now I never listen to him. Even w/o the doper-support he's just not that good. Sound smooth for sure though.

Oh, and I've met him as a guest speaker at an event I helped organize late in the last century. I just can't stand him and his crew now.
 

cantunamunch

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I cannot stand people who ran or profited from large-scale doping under Amstrong/Bruyneel era still making money off the notoriety they built during that era. That includes Liggett who was one of the last strong Amstrong apologists/defenders and Bob Roll who was similar.

Guessing you're also not a fan of the current crop of team managers/DS ... I mean Netflix' show is like a Rolodex of '95-'08 cheaters and enablers.

Further Guessing you don't mind NBC dropping Horner - even though he was more engaged than NBC's current comment crew.


Never watch or listen to any of them. And Bruyneel the unrepentant dope-deal who helped take corruption in the sport to new levels? I don't care how smart he is - I will never listen to him.

One has to be careful whom one lets into the teaching role...

Liggett is also often incompetent now.

Troof. Quite past it, imo.




 

jt10000

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Guessing you're also not a fan of the current crop of team managers/DS ... I mean Netflix' show is like a Rolodex of '95-'08 cheaters and enablers.

Further Guessing you don't mind NBC dropping Horner - even though he was more engaged than NBC's current comment crew.
I don't like Horner either. Was a huge fan back in the day - even hung out with him for a few hours in the mid 90s before he made it big. We were at the same motel during an NRC race and he was crushing it for a guy with no team. Later his career became absurd. His Vuelta win was absurd. I didn't know he'd been on NBC - never watch or listen to them due to Liggett.

In terms of doper DSs - yes not a fan. But it varies by how much a leader they were in the corruption. Johan Bruyneel was one of the worst. Top of the tree. Whereas a guy like Marc Sergeant was just average. And some current DS's - Charlie Wegelius and Svein Tuft for example - seem to have been clean or almost clean.
 
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Jack skis

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Perhaps if we complain enough race coverage will disappear completely. I understand people having opinions that differ from mine (especially since mine are mostly based on ignorance), but I really don't want to lose easy access to TV coverage of bike racing.
 

jt10000

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Perhaps if we complain enough race coverage will disappear completely. I understand people having opinions that differ from mine (especially since mine are mostly based on ignorance), but I really don't want to lose easy access to TV coverage of bike racing.
Yeah, see to me not rewarding people who profited from massive massive cheating (and in the case of Armstrong and Bruyneel trying to ruin other people's lives) is more important than easy access to TV coverage. Clearly YMMV.

But that's besides the point: it's silly to think that it's those crooks and their flunkies or nothing. There's no shortage of people wanting to work in sports broadcasting. There are so many people who could be working in the industry who were not big cheaters and apologists for big cheaters, but those big names stay on top.

That's part of the reason I won't watch them. Having those crooks and their apologists on top of broadcasting just perpetuates the scam - they got more money back when Armstrong was racing, literally making it harder or impossible for cleaner athletes to succeed in the sport. And now it continues in other aspects of the sport.
 
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cantunamunch

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Perhaps if we complain enough race coverage will disappear completely. I understand people having opinions that differ from mine (especially since mine are mostly based on ignorance), but I really don't want to lose easy access to TV coverage of bike racing.

We're already kind of seeing that - witness how hard it is to find NBC coverage anyway, and USA are barely even motivated to do live broadcasts past the first week.

We could sort of excuse that because the parcours is so absolutely time-gappy this year. Remember when Froome & Co. basically owned the GC the first week and even Movistar had to admit defeat and look for the team classification? If anyone watched, it was for the travelogue. NBC know this season is likely to become another one of those. But they're also missing a trick by ignoring Netflix' doccos.


But that's besides the point: it's silly to think that it's those crooks and their flunkies or nothing. There's no shortage of people wanting to work in sports broadcasting. There are so many people who could be working in the industry who were not big cheaters and apologists for big cheaters, but those big names stay on top.

I have to admit I felt this way watching Millar's time trial doc on Prime and watching the Moviestar show 'El Dia Menos Pensado'.

But I also have to counterbalance this feeling by noting that justice needs must include some notion of having served ones penalty.
So, paradoxicaly, I'm relatively close to neutral on people like Vaughters. Maybe in the neutral-ish zone on Valverde. Less than neutral on old school managers like Lefevere.

 

scott43

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"For the people that don't believe in cycling, the cynics and the skeptics, I'm sorry for you, I'm sorry you can't dream big."
I mean, I'm cynical.. But.. I'm not sure he's THAT guy... I'm not sure that doping is as big an issue as it has been previously. Some folks who DID dope note that younger riders are winning which points to less doping because it typically helps older riders more. Not an expert, this is what the old dopers are saying. Having said that, the speeds continue to rise so I remain somewhat skeptical...

EDIT: need to be careful on the spoilers..no names or implied persons!!
 

jt10000

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I mean, I'm cynical.. But.. I'm not sure he's THAT guy... I'm not sure that doping is as big an issue as it has been previously. Some folks who DID dope note that younger riders are winning which points to less doping because it typically helps older riders more. Not an expert, this is what the old dopers are saying. Having said that, the speeds continue to rise so I remain somewhat skeptical...

EDIT: need to be careful on the spoilers..no names or implied persons!!
I don't feel that about him as a rider (I don't know much about him actually). On the other hand, his team has a lot of resources and really pushes the envelope. So I wonder.

But most of all, in a thread with praise for THAT guy, I couldn't resist. Hope I am way wrong.
 

fatbob

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No point in a thread if you can't post in real time. People who open sporting threads then bitch about spoilers are the worst. Don't open em.
 

scott43

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So ...are we finally ready to talk about the stage 4 shoulder strike on Girmay?
I mean, I've never been sprinter guy so I have a hard time commenting with any authority. I remember when my countryman Steve Bauer ran Criquielion into the barriers and nearly killed him. I thought that was disgusting quite frankly. The veneer of civility is quite thin at times. Complete lack of sportsmanship.
 

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