MA request: Taos bumps

[recbumper]

Interesting. Tried to include some of this in my rounder line bump skiing - well, in the very limited time I got last July in Oz. The big difference to travelling straight down the fall line is more frequently meeting the bump from the side with more time between bumps. Dictated partly by terrain but mostly by age.



Wouldn't describe it as pulling feet back myself. It's back of heels travelling towards the glutes. A Big Picture Skiing vid suggested the cue of feeling like our butt is moving down perpendicular to the face of the bump. Because the front face of the bump is pushing the feet up the upper body doesn't drop at all - it just sort of feels like it. The legs fold in front but the upper body momentum brings it through over the slowing feet so they travel back to be in the right position cresting the bump. Works for me - less things to think about. Everyone's MMV.

Aside: there's a timing thing here. Pull the feet up early in anticipation of the bump and there's no real reduction of speed. Delay a fraction, allow the skis to meet the bump, partially resist the leg folding to prolong the initial merge with the bump and there's speed control. Look for a nice big bump face for extra speed control.



Glad you wrote that. A few people have observed that the OP sometimes extends too soon. In a rounder line there's good reasons to hold the flexed position to get the skis pointed in the right direction and edges ready to engage. Felt that was another key learning last time skiing. Eighteen months of squats helped.

^^^ very accurately described I would say. Nice writing!!

 

[James]

Julie's video is excellent.

My 2 cents of silly minor commentary/user's interpretation might be something like this --

>1. Move feet behind us & hips come thru.
You initiate the pull of your feet behind you when the tips of the skis touch the mogul face in front of you. The tips touching in front is the cue to start pulling heels back & up, hard & fast. When practicing on flats you pull straight back cause there is no "up" without the depth of an actual mogul.
Hips come thru. The hips coming thru is a definite feeling. They kindof come thru on their own if you are pulling hard enough, but you can also give a bit of a forward projection to make sure your hips are out forward.

>2. Timing.
In general, you want to Hollllllllllddd your absorbed position until your boots have travelled approx 1/2 to 2/3 of the way down the backside. Then you release the Hollllld and there is a quick, fast, short extension at the end of the backside and down into the trough. It is very asymmetrical. There is a lonnnnnng Hold, and then a very brief Extend. The Holllllld part is very counterintuitive, the body tends to want to extend too soon.

>3. The traversing-across-the-bumps drill at 3:04 "This is a drill to help us feel..."
The mogul traverse drill is a *really good one*. It's worth spending a lot of time on over & over to develop timing & feel.

There are actually kindof Two Parts to absorption, and you can use the mogul traverse drill to learn both parts --
1) Handling the Frontside (tip impact, heels pulling back & up, ski tip bending toward you, staying balanced while handling that sudden pressure), and then
2) Handling The Backside (Holllding in absorbed position while you roll over the crest, start to coast down the top half of the Backside, then choosing your moment to Release Feet (Extend), and making sure that the speed of your Extension is chosen correctly to match the depth & slope of each particular mogul

>3.1. Drawing attention to the timing of the movement - when the feet reach the drop-off point on the bump.
Yes, you go over the main crest fully absorbed and Hollllding. You travel about halfway down the backside and then Release the feet so they track downward. It has a very Swooopy feeling when done well.

>3.2. And at 3:11, where the bump has an elongated top, she deliberately delays most of the movement until the main drop off.
Yes, you want to develop patience in the Hollllld so that you can get that swoop.

The overall timing of absorption is Syncopated. It's a bit like a jazz Swing beat fast-slowwww, fast-slowww

The fast part is the tail-end of the Backside, tip impact into mogul face, and explosive pull.
The Slowww part is the final little upward bit of the crest, weightshifting onto the new ski just before or exactly at the crest (while fully absorbed), and hollllding down the upper half to 2/3 of the Backside

Dunno if that helps. This stuff all happens in split instants but writing about it turns into a lotta wordzz, sorry.

Are you still primarily going outside ski to outside ski? Left foot to right foot, or opposite. Because it looks “two footed” but it seems to work much better foot to foot - at a lower level anyway.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

This thread delivers!

Many thanks for the analysis, feedback, instructions, coaching cues, and most importantly, compliments. There is a lot to digest and absorb.

Did not want to interrupt with the “my intent was this” and “usually I do that” and turn this into an unnecessary arguments. Happy to listen and absorb… and extend.. and absorb…

To those who saw me ski better: yes, I can do better but this was a very representative video of the type of skiing that makes me want to say what the f$&@k take lessons.

 

[KingGrump]

@Pasha , why the frown to post #60.

Forgotten how?

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

@Pasha , why the frown to post #60.

Forgotten how?

Getting action through the fence seems painful

 

[recbumper]

Are you still primarily going outside ski to outside ski? Left foot to right foot, or opposite. Because it looks “two footed” but it seems to work much better foot to foot - at a lower level anyway.

In mogul technique you aim to have your weight 100% on one ski, then shift 100% to the other to initiate the turn. You work hard to press your knees together, and can also lightly press your feet together. But it is not a two-footed platform, it's all on one ski, then all on the other. It can look from the outside like a 2-foot platform, but that is usually just because peeps are keeping their feet cleanly together.

An exception is in very soft snow where it's OK to get two-footy.

Also at high speeds the actual weight distribution may be 70/30 or whatnot, but the goal is 100/0 then 0/100

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

You're pretty leisurely in line selection. Maybe add a bit more "bam bam" in your approach.

I’m more of a “thank you maam” these days. You know, with long round turns.

 

[KingGrump]

Getting action through the fence seems painful

Not if you do it right.
Think hip projection like the pic in post #41.

Remember picket fence. Not barb wire fence.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

Not if you do it right.
Think hip projection like the pic in post #41.

Remember picket fence. Not barb wire fence.

I dare you to start a thread tittled “getting acttion through a picket fence: tell us your story”.

 

[1Turn2Many]

KingGrump’s picket fence. Says the 1/4” gaps have plenty of room. Although, the boards are 1/2” thick so not much penetration.

 

[geepers]

Think about what you would do if you were getting a piece of action through a picket fence.

Raises even more questions about "the Taos way"...

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

 

[KingGrump]

Raises even more questions about "the Taos way"...

That's marketing for Taos ski week.

 

[KingGrump]

View attachment 197833
KingGrump’s picket fence. Says the 1/4” gaps have plenty of room. Although, the boards are 1/2” thick so not much penetration.

Typical for ski school forum thread. Everything get misconstrued.
That is not picket fence. That is a board on batten fence. Shall required different technique for that.

This is a picket fence.

Different technique required. Much higher success rate.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

Typical for ski school forum thread. Everything get misconstrued.
That is not picket fence. That is a board on batten fence. Shall required different technique for that.

This is a picket fence.
View attachment 197848
Different technique required. Much higher success rate.

FIS PF?

 

[Rod9301]

Here's another really good pic of Forward body position for moguls

View attachment 197712
This is practice on Flats but you can see how the whole body is Forward. It is Forward and clearly **beyond perpendicular** to the slope. Niiiice.

Pasha, you can also see here that the body is upright like yours.

The one improvement you could add in to your body position would be to get your hips forward more. For moguls, you want the hips always-always-always forward. In Alpine skiing people tend to crouch low-ish in order to reduce wind resistance and go faster. The low crouch may gain speed but it drops your hips back. In moguls you don't care about the wind resistance -- you are trying to go slow! (relative to fall-line speed) So then you are free to change your body position to keep your hips up & forward, which gets your weight onto the front of the ski where you want it to get Early & consistent edge.

It's not always, when you absorb a bump, your hips are back then when you crest, pull the feet back to re center and to bring the tips down.

 

[Rod9301]

Are you still primarily going outside ski to outside ski? Left foot to right foot, or opposite. Because it looks “two footed” but it seems to work much better foot to foot - at a lower level anyway.

Yeah, you want to be on the outside ski. With feet close together.

 

[James]

Moseley used to talk about jumping over the low chain link fence, lifting the feet up.

 

[mister moose]

Lots of opinions on when to do what, representing different styles .... but

things happen fast in the moguls. Mogul shape and spacing changes, unless you're competing on a seeded course.

Versatility is your best friend.