Masters GS skis: glossary request ('cheater', 'tweener', 'masters', etc)

[Tony Storaro]

U14-U16 FIS ski (headline is wrong). You have to add binding to that price too, Look SPX. But for what you get ... it is a lot of ski for your money. It is a proper race construction with the best materials, real race skis, built for racing in race courses. My daughter was on Rossignol through those years and the shorter ones are not as nice as the longer ones. Don't look too much at the radius, flex is more important and you can (learn to) bend the ski into pretty short turns. In the extreme, look at WC athletes forcing their 30+ GS boards into a parallell course with 20 meter distance between the gates. Dynastar are the same models, just different paint jobs, so if you find them at better prices, go for it. Good luck.

It isn’t wrong, these are U14 ski. He needs U16 FIS ones.

 

[Swede]

It isn’t wrong, these are U14 ski. He needs U16 FIS ones.

They are U14-U16 FIS. Have had them for my girls, all lengths in Dynastar flavor too. The longer 25-27 are U16 and the shorter 20-23m typically U14. Headline say "non-fis" and that is wrong. They are FIS approved skis according to U14 and U16 regulations.

 

[Tony Storaro]

They are U14-U16 FIS. Have had them for my girls, all lengths in Dynastar flavor too. The longer 25-27 are U16 and the shorter 20-23m typically U14. Headline say "non-fis" and that is wrong. They are FIS approved skis according to U14 and U16 regulations.

Yes OK maybe, point is on most web-sites when they say FIS GS they normally mean the men, women and U16 versions and the ski in question here are the U16 185/27

 

[Swede]

No, these are not these.

You need this:

HERO ATHLETE GS 185 R22 | RACE | Rossignol

HERO ATHLETE GS 185 R22. Discover Rossignol ski & snowboard equipment, urban wear, technical wear, bikes: take advantage of ✓ Free delivery ✓ Free returns.

www.rossignol.com

They only come in one length: 185

Forget the radius, if you are good enough to ski 21m race ski, you won’t have troubles skiing 27m.

The 185 r27 is the longest length in that model, so what you suggest is actually the model he posted and asked about--it comes in four lengths, from 170 to 185 cm. It is the same model -- JR FIS GS. 182/25 and 185/27 are U16 skis.

 

[TaosN]

Wait so that is the correct ski on PeakSkiShop? Just want to make sure.

I picked the 182 as it was the closest to my current length, but if you think that at my height/weight (5-8, 170) I should go with 185 I could be convinced to do that (the price is right either way haha).

 

[Tony Storaro]

The 185 r27 is the longest length in that model, so what you suggest is actually the model he posted and asked about--it comes in four lengths, from 170 to 185 cm. It is the same model -- JR FIS GS. 182/25 and 185/27 are U16 skis.

Hold on, this is getting confusing..


Look here:

Search- Skicenter - Shop of Ski

Skicenter.it - Il tuo negozio online per sci, abbigliamento e attrezzatura invernale di alta qualità.

www.skicenter.it

There are 3 Hero Athlete FIS GS: 193,188 and 185 and then we have Hero Athlete GS in 3 lengths: 170,175 and 182. The latter ones are not described as FIS on the skicenter site so perhaps this is the reason for the NON-FIS on the other site dunno…

 

[Tony Storaro]

Wait so that is the correct ski on PeakSkiShop? Just want to make sure.

I picked the 182 as it was the closest to my current length, but if you think that at my height/weight (5-8, 170) I should go with 185 I could be convinced to do that (the price is right either way haha).

No. 182/25 will be perfect.

 

[TaosN]

Hold on, this is getting confusing..


Look here:

Search- Skicenter - Shop of Ski

Skicenter.it - Il tuo negozio online per sci, abbigliamento e attrezzatura invernale di alta qualità.

www.skicenter.it

There are 3 Hero Athlete FIS GS: 193,188 and 182 and then we have Hero Athlete GS in 3 lengths: 170,175 and 182. The latter ones are not described as FIS on the skicenter site so perhaps this is the reason for the NON-FIS on the other site dunno…

I agree it is legitimately confusing, to make things even weirder, when I go to Rossignols website I see this:

Now when I click on the "170-182" skis I can see the option for a 185, with seemingly identical dimensions (sidecut, radius, weight, etc) to the "other" 185 that is listed by itself, except it is out of stock.

The only obvious difference appears to be the color of the top sheet, otherwise they are described with seemingly the same verbiage.

Is it possible that the lighter orange color is just the 2025 top sheet design, and that's listed by itself as it's the only one of next year's skis that they have at this time? There's only one ratings review for it.

 

[trailtrimmer]

Wait so that is the correct ski on PeakSkiShop? Just want to make sure.

I picked the 182 as it was the closest to my current length, but if you think that at my height/weight (5-8, 170) I should go with 185 I could be convinced to do that (the price is right either way haha).

I think you made the best choice for your given size.

 

[Swede]

170-175-182--185 are the tweeners. 20 to 27 m radius. The two shorter U14ish and the two longer u16. Nothing to be confused about. They are FIS approved for U14 and U16.

 

[Tony Storaro]

I agree it is legitimately confusing, to make things even weirder, when I go to Rossignols website I see this:

View attachment 230576
Now when I click on the "170-182" skis I can see the option for a 185, with seemingly identical dimensions (sidecut, radius, weight, etc) to the "other" 185 that is listed by itself, except it is out of stock.

The only obvious difference appears to be the color of the top sheet, otherwise they are described with seemingly the same verbiage.

Is it possible that the lighter orange color is just the 2025 top sheet design, and that's listed by itself as it's the only one of next year's skis that they have at this time? There's only one ratings review for it.

Rossi… Last year we had the same discussion about confusing info on their FIS SL ski.

I am not even sure this orange is not a mistake as on various web-sites it varies from this washed out orange to solid red.

 

[DocGKR]

TaosN--you have the correct ski: Rossi/Dynastar 65mm wide 182cm/25m. That is the best one for your height and weight. If you were 185lbs or more, I'd recommend the 185/27m length of the same ski. Likely the SPX15 binding.​

 

[TaosN]

TaosN--you have the correct ski: Rossi/Dynastar 65mm wide 182cm/25m. That is the best one for your height and weight. If you were 185lbs or more, I'd recommend the 185/27m length of the same ski. Likely the SPX15 binding.​

Awesome thanks! Just go ahead and order from Peak Performance?

I can source the SPX 15 locally

 

[DocGKR]

Peak Performance is fine, as is Race Place: https://the-raceplace.com/collections/race-skis, not to mention great shops like Start Haus and Racer's Edge.

 

[TaosN]

Peak Performance is fine, as is Race Place: https://the-raceplace.com/collections/race-skis, not to mention great shops like Start Haus and Racer's Edge.

Race Place was the first place I looked but they appear to be sold out of the Rossi in 182.

Start Haus is the closer to me geographically, but Peak Performance has the ski at the lowest price, I could call Start Haus and ask if they can price match?

 

[ski otter 2]

TaosN--you have the correct ski: Rossi/Dynastar 65mm wide 182cm/25m. That is the best one for your height and weight. If you were 185lbs or more, I'd recommend the 185/27m length of the same ski. Likely the SPX15 binding.​

Apologies, this is confusing to me, but I have more limited experience on race skis outside my own experience
and that of a very few folks in shops whom I ski with, and who also have an interest in skiing race skis.
To me, there are really different dynamics involved with different lengths and particular skis.
So what I'm experiencing may not fit others? Dunno.

Also, yesterday I just skied briefly with a junior youngster (of maybe 120 to 130 pounds, no more, I'm guessing),
whose coach had encouraged him in his choice to now switch to the 188/30 ski from a shorter junior GS race
ski, for racing rather than just recreation. Not sure if this will be premature or not, but this junior had tried some
188/30s, and loved them, found them easier, he said.

I'm only 5'10" and at this point, no more than 150 lbs. on my best day. But I prefer the 188/30 by a lot, and
prefer masters GS race skis that are 184 or 185, at least. (Not counting old timey skis, I've owned 180s,
182s and 183s, especially the old spec 183s, in addition to a 185 - and I've used a 187, briefly.)

What I experience is there is an "in between" (SL and GS) distinctly different feel/dynamic below 182 or so.
And another change at around 175.

For me, most ~175 near race or GS Jr. skis are too quick, edge to edge, to give time to really flex the ski from tip to tail:
instead, one dances from edge to edge easily and very quickly (or overpowers the ski, if it is too flexy). Whether
one likes this quality or not, it is a distinctly different dynamic. (For smaller juniors, I understand that the experience
is different.)

Again, for an adult, at around 180, the GS like ski becomes a different feel again, for me, while still being fairly quick
from edge to edge: if it is not too soft-flexing, it carves/flexes in a way that allows working the ski more, but not to
the extent of having a GS ski feel (GS feel = partly, at least somewhat laid over, creating a roller coaster like rebound from
the flex). The 180 has some of the feel that Franz Klammer in retirement likes so much with his near race
iSpeed and eSpeed 180/18s.

At some point with a wider and or stiffer flexing GS like ski, maybe starting at 183 or 184, depending on the ski,
I get a flex that changes, that involves a real GS carving/rebound/flex feel, for want of a better term for it - with
more tip and tail involvement. Once this change in dynamics happens, the characteristic turns of GS become possible, likely.
For me, I get that effect maximized starting at around 184 up to 188 or so, seems like - again, depending on the ski.

This GS rebound effect/dynamic becomes too much, for me, and for presumably my size, past the 188/30.
For me, a 190 or 193 men's GS ski has clearly too much force, dangerous in the snap back rebound, and unwieldy.

 

[DocGKR]

Many of the 188/30 are more even flexing and easier to ski than some of the Masters specific skis. "Junior" skis with FIS construction can be a bit different.

In this case, we are talking about a specific Junior Rossi/Dynastar GS ski in two different lengths--182/25 and 185/27. I have used both of these skis, as well as the Rossi/Dynaster 188/30 and 193/30.

Many of our male Masters racers are on this 65mm wide model, as it is likely the most popular Masters GS ski in our region. Most folks under 175 lbs are on the 182/25, while heavier people prefer the 185/27--note that this is a relatively burly ski for a Junior model. At 6' 210lbs I love the 185/27, and while the 182/25 is fun to free ski, it is not as robust as I would prefer in gates. My colleagues of lighter weight feel the exact opposite, that the 185/27 is too much ski and not nimble enough. As always, YMMV.

 

[Swede]

U16 racers normally have 5-6 or more seasons of training and competitions under their belts, as well as condition and strength building that gets pretty serious during U16. They normally are technically good and able to ski fast and turn that speed into force down in their ski. So ”jr” might be decieving for people who are not familiar with racing. Weight isn’t all that important, unless w’re old and bad. Then weight can make up for lack of speed, strength and/or skill. Fede and Tessa are 125ish lbs!

 

[TaosN]

So I discussed with my instructor and he recommended that at this time, with my current technique, that I stay at sub-30m (even sub 27m) radius and around 180 in length.

This also makes the ski more versatile for where I usually ski, as the courses are usually set a bit more compact and for free-skiing the groomers are a bit more snug.

 

[Swede]

So I discussed with my instructor and he recommended that at this time, with my current technique, that I stay at sub-30m (even sub 27m) radius and around 180 in length.

This also makes the ski more versatile for where I usually ski, as the courses are usually set a bit more compact and for free-skiing the groomers are a bit more snug.

Listen to coach. Have fun. What you should know if you decide to not go with the Rosdi/Dynastsr, is that some so called ”masters” that are 180ish and 18-20 meter in radius are great fun free skiing, but do not really hold up for gates. Some might be sturdier than others, Idk. Telltale is if they are wider than 65 mm. Race constructions are all 65 mm. I think the 182/25 sounds correct for you to race GS gates on. They have a very nice flex.