Mt Bachelor being sued over death of 9yr old

[James]

Sugarbush-



At the difficult end it’s fairly easy, in the blue terrain zone where conditions can drastically change the experience, not so much. Generic warnings just get ignored.

 

[Philpug]

IMHO, changing trail designations can have more upside than down.

 

[wiread]

There’s so many warning signs all
Over this world I find myself questioning everyone of them practically. I don’t think having revolving signs on a ski hill is any sort of answer

 

[Andy Mink]

Even if a ski area had the staff to monitor at least all main runs, all day, every day, and change signs or digital signs every time a cloud blew over and then the sun came out, would it help? How many of us have been in the lift line where there is a big digital sign with loads of info and when we get on the lift someone says, "Are the Chutes open?" or "Did you notice if XXXX run is open today?". Signs are only as good as the people who read them. Of course the ski area can say the sign was up when someone decided to try a blue that was really a double black that day.

But really, how many ski areas have enough staff to continuously monitor conditions? I'm guessing ZERO. Even if you do it every hour, you still have 59 minutes and 59 seconds for that specific condition to change before the next update. Do all ski areas require a waiver to be signed? Doesn't everyone read the fine print?

 

[fatbob]

From what I've learnt of Mt Batchelor beyond the possible admission of liability by changing signage I can't see much downside to having a prominent sign at the loading area to Summit saying something like "Conditions on Summit runs can be extremely challenging due to wind, ice, visibility and other weather effects. As a result you may find runs are significantly more difficult than you would expect based on similar colour graded runs at other resorts or elsewhere on this mountain. If in doubt ski elsewhere."

 

[eok]

From what I've learnt of Mt Batchelor beyond the possible admission of liability by changing signage I can't see much downside to having a prominent sign at the loading area to Summit saying something like "Conditions on Summit runs can be extremely challenging due to wind, ice, visibility and other weather effects. As a result you may find runs are significantly more difficult than you would expect based on similar colour graded runs at other resorts or elsewhere on this mountain. If in doubt ski elsewhere.

The problem with signage at a resort like Bachelor is the resort gets a good number of international skiers who don't read/speak English well (or at all). So, to do signage like this "right" it needs to be in different languages. Thus, to be practical & keep the size of the sign down the message needs to be very short. However, I'm not aware of any signage at PNW ski resorts that are in multiple languages. But that might be because I tend to ignore most signs.

The other issue with signage like this is: even with the sign, somebody will still ski the run, get hurt, sue and claim resort negligence claiming that the run was more dangerous than the sign implied & the run should have been closed.

 

[BLiP]

The other issue with signage like this is: even with the sign, somebody will still ski the run, get hurt, sue and claim resort negligence claiming that the run was more dangerous than the sign implied & the run should have been closed.

With this logic, why even have green/blue/black designations? Somebody might claim that the run was more dangerous than the sign implied. Remove all trail signs and let people fend for themselves!

You’ll never be able to account for every variable. And you’ll never be able to prevent every lawsuit. The goal should be mitigation of risk and improved visitor experience. And on that front, it sounds like improvements could be made.

 

[dbostedo]

IMHO, changing trail designations can have more upside than down.

So you would propose changing the designations? What changes?

 

[KingGrump]

The only standardized trail trail rating I’d like to see is for learning terrain. Many greens have short steep sections that are solid blue. That wouldn’t make the standard.

Lower Drifter Link at Stratton early season is one of those green trails before they have enough snow to open Lower Wanderer. Many beginners get stuck on the steeper section just before the Snowbowl chair.

 

[slowrider]

I always stop and chk on folks when they're down. I also CYA no one else will.

 

[James]

Alta doesn’t even have double blacks.
Like Mt Peter, NY

 

[crgildart]

Even if a ski area had the staff to monitor at least all main runs, all day, every day, and change signs or digital signs every time a cloud blew over and then the sun came out, would it help? How many of us have been in the lift line where there is a big digital sign with loads of info and when we get on the lift someone says, "Are the Chutes open?" or "Did you notice if XXXX run is open today?". Signs are only as good as the people who read them. Of course the ski area can say the sign was up when someone decided to try a blue that was really a double black that day.

But really, how many ski areas have enough staff to continuously monitor conditions? I'm guessing ZERO. Even if you do it every hour, you still have 59 minutes and 59 seconds for that specific condition to change before the next update. Do all ski areas require a waiver to be signed? Doesn't everyone read the fine print?

This sounds like a lot of pointless hand waiving.. Every resort has typical and atypical days and 99% of the locals and staff know how the trails will likely be skiing without actually having to take turns on them. That said, they all do patrol sweeps beginning and end of the day. There's more than enough beta to make pretty good educated guesses. Several have said that the terrain in question is closed more often than it is open in January for this very reason.

 

[Andy Mink]

Several have said that the terrain in question is closed more often than it is open in January for this very reason.

It was my understanding the terrain is closed primarily because the lift is closed due to wind, ice on the wheels/cable/towers, or total lack of visibility. It isn't usually due to actual snow conditions.

 

[crgildart]

It was my understanding the terrain is closed primarily because the lift is closed due to wind, ice on the wheels/cable/towers, or total lack of visibility. It isn't usually due to actual snow conditions.

Rope tow (and a scary sign) FTW!

But to be fair you were ranting about EVERY TRAIL ON EVERY MOUNTAIN , I stand by my comment that they already know pretty well with just the weather reports (and grooming history) how every trail will be skiing..

 

[Andy Mink]

Rope tow (and a scary sign) FTW!

But to be fair you were ranting about EVERY TRAIL ON EVERY MOUNTAIN , I stand by my comment that they already know pretty well with just the weather reports (and grooming history) how every trail will be skiing..

No rant, just a "what if" on the main runs.

 

[KingGrump]

Doesn't matter what kind of signage the resort employed. There will always some clueless ones that will drop in and get over terrain. Then blame the resort.

Seen it often enough.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Lets bring back straight skis and separate the those that can really ski anything from those that can look good skiing because of modern equipment.

I'm not blaming the family (or any one else) for making an error in what they did or didn't do, but I have seen too many skiers get in trouble at the slightest difficulty because equipment really makes it that easy under great conditions and gives over confidence compared to old equipment which tended to temper these decisions.

No matter how this ends in court along with what it does to the industry, the truth is that injuries in skiing will occur, sadly sometimes fatal in the most unexpected times for little or no reason. Laying blame, be it parents, child or resort (or anyone else) is not right in any circumstance. This is a risk sport and when things go wrong it can be terrible. Ultimately the final choice is that of the individual right or wrong, if its someone younger than that ultimately falls on the (designated adult) to make that decision and even then...good luck to them, as children fail to listen in the most unexpected moments.

My heart goes out to those left behind for a combination of conditions, lack of experience, poor choices, bad luck and worst outcome.

 

[markojp]

I just wish we'd get over the idea that the west really doesn't get icy. The PNW gets very firm quite regularly.

 

[eok]

I just wish we'd get over the idea that the west really doesn't get icy. The PNW gets very firm quite regularly.

Fairly common winter occurrence for Bachelor & PNW: winter Pineapple Express dumps heavy rain all the way up to the peak of the Summit. Turns the snowpack to soup. Then, the 'Express is followed by a cold front & that snow soup is frozen solid.

We also can get freezing rain & it can glaze the entire mountain.

And the typical high pressure (and/or inversion) warm spells that torture the snowpack (and skiers) with consecutive freeze/thaw cycles. We get our fair share of "Juneuary's".

 

[KingGrump]

I just wish we'd get over the idea that the west really doesn't get icy. The PNW gets very firm quite regularly.

Dude, not satisfied with teaching people how to ski? Now, you want to teach them geography?

Jay Leno JayWalking: Geography Test

Most skiers from east of the Rockies think of the skiing the Rocky Mountains resorts as skiing out west. CO, UT & WY. Oh yeah, NM, that 3rd world country.

The Sierras and Cascade? You mean there is something further west than the Rockies?
Oh yeah, California, been there once. PNL? Left of what?