Old School Straight Skiing Question.

[cantunamunch]

Center grooves started disappearing when sintered bases came in. Sintered bases meant more stone grinders in shops. More stone grinders in shops meant cheap linear structures. Cheap linear structures meant center grooves were redundant. Redundant center grooves meant manufacturers stopped wasting money on press moulds with center groove features. Which adds up when you're making skis in 3-5cm size breaks.

It’s pretty damn challenging doing it on a 165cm 11-13m slalom. But, I have to agree it can be done. Liking it is another thing. You’re really on the edge of disaster pushing 50 going straight. I’ve only done it in this one place where you need to make it uphill. Feels like just breathing is going to have you catch an edge and do a Wide World of Sports.

Ever wondered how inline skaters do it? Over 40 mph on any steep street, on a 12-14 inch wheelbase with a 8- 15m effective radius. With sub 20mm lateral stability? On 75 to 150mm of effective lift?

Constant, unceasing hip rotator activation.

Yet another reason I keep telling people that using inline skates on cone courses to simulate skiing means they've not learned to skate yet.

It's always Schadenfreude funny to see gym-buff personal trainer types get sewing machine leg starting about 20 miles into a hilly skate race. There's simply no way to simulate hip rotator conditioning that you get from actually descending.

 

[James]

Center grooves started disappearing when sintered bases came in. Sintered bases meant more stone grinders in shops. More stone grinders in shops meant cheap linear structures. Cheap linear structures meant center grooves were redundant. Redundant center grooves meant manufacturers stopped wasting money on press moulds with center groove features. Which adds up when you're making skis in 3-5cm size breaks.



Ever wondered how inline skaters do it? Over 40 mph on any steep street, on a 12-14 inch wheelbase with a 8- 15m effective radius. With sub 20mm lateral stability? On 75 to 150mm of effective lift?

Constant, unceasing hip rotator activation.

Yet another reason I keep telling people that using inline skates on cone courses to simulate skiing means they've not learned to skate yet.

It's always Schadenfreude funny to see gym-buff personal trainer types get sewing machine leg starting about 20 miles into a hilly skate race. There's simply no way to simulate hip rotator conditioning that you get from actually descending.

What is seeing machine leg?
I remember going over the Brooklyn Bridge on inlines. Very soon into the downhill portion going into Manhattan I regretted it. The surface was Ipe boards with space. Vibrations caused the feet to go numb. Trying to stop might have been worse.

 

[DanoT]

What is seeing machine leg?

I am reading "sewing machine leg" but I don't know what that means either.

 

[François Pugh]

I believe the term "sewing machine leg" refers to muscle-fatigue-induced tremors in the leg. Picture a sewing machine needle going up and down.

 

[cantunamunch]

I believe the term "sewing machine leg" refers to muscle-fatigue-induced tremors in the leg. Picture a sewing machine needle going up and down.

Yes. Uncontrollable.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I agree, center grooves disappeared before shape skis. My ‘96 Völkl straights have no groove. They kind of disappeared when stone grinding came in. Word was, whether it’s true or not, I don’t know, was the stone grinding obviated tbe need for the groove to break the suction. Now that may be a crock. It could just be there was really no need for a center groove. Or maybe it was good in soft snow.

It’s pretty damn challenging doing it on a 165cm 11-13m slalom. But, I have to agree it can be done. Liking it is another thing. You’re really on the edge of disaster pushing 50 going straight. I’ve only done it in this one place where you need to make it uphill. Feels like just breathing is going to have you catch an edge and do a Wide World of Sports.

Hah, the year I demoed my first shaped skis, prob 99/2000 I must have tried 10 of them. At the end of the day I’d do a straight tuck down the sane trail. I didn’t want any damn shape ski that couldn’t go straight! So by the time I got to the last one, the Völkl P30rc with the plastic tip, I no longer cared about the straight run. Turning was so much fun. I think I did it anyway, but the results didn’t matter.

Figuring out the length was more important. I tried the 198 in that. Yikes. Should’ve gotten the 188, but got the 193cm P40 as the other was sold out. Not nearly as fun as the p30 rc.

I will make lots of small turns with low edge angles rather than try to get a SL to track straight at speed.

Interesting. I bet it would be pretty hard to stone grind a ski and preserve the center groove; eventually, after a few grinds, it would just be gone all-together.

Grooves were not insignificant in their depth. It would take a lot of grinding, more than a few to remove one. The amount of material removed by a descent tuner is small. A hack tuner, yea. They might remove a groove in a few tunes.

 

[François Pugh]

I will make lots of small turns with low edge angles rather than try to get a SL to track straight at speed.



Grooves were not insignificant in their depth. It would take a lot of grinding, more than a few to remove one. The amount of material removed by a descent tuner is small. A hack tuner, yea. They might remove a groove in a few tunes.

So there's still some hope for my old oxidized bases?

 

[Doug Briggs]

So there's still some hope for my old oxidized bases?

Why wouldn't there be? I presume you are talking about skis with grooves.

 

[slowrider]

As I recall there were different shaped center groves. Square and round. Once I forgot to scrape the wax out of a old Kastle straight ski. Got on the snow and squirrelly comes to mind. As long as I was on edge no problem.

 

[Doug Briggs]

The structure that is stone ground into skis not only helps prevent suction, it aids the ski in tracking in a straight line. Not a lot, but if you have too much/deep a structure, you may find you can't pivot or push your tails.

 

[cantunamunch]

As I recall there were different shaped center groves. Square and round. Once I forgot to scrape the wax out of a old Kästle straight ski. Got on the snow and squirrelly comes to mind. As long as I was on edge no problem.

Yep. Some of the round ones were even deep enough for a finger, especially on woodies. Some of the square ones were barely deep enough to guide a scraper.

 

[dan ross]

I believe the term "sewing machine leg" refers to muscle-fatigue-induced tremors in the leg. Picture a sewing machine needle going up and down.

Well, as a PSA of sorts , it can be more serious than muscle fatigue. 4 years ago I was halfway down Mammoth from the summit when my left leg started the sewing machine motion. I wrote it off as fatigue ( last run) or dehydration but it was disconcerting and I had to basically ski down the bottom half of the mountain on my right ski. Turns out it was a neurological condition caused by compression of my spinal cord at the cervical spine. Of course it took awhile to figure this out but 5 screws in 5 cervical vertebrae later it is gone but I wish I had caught it earlier. So, not to be a downer , but if you experience this and you are positive it’s not muscle fatigue get yourself to a neurologist and get it checked.

 

[MooseOnTheLoose]

Do dedicated mogul skis like the Twister require old school techniques outside of the bumps? Is there anything special to know for how they handle on ice and steeps?

 

[James]

Don’t think so. They’re just skinnier than most are used to and have less shape.
They’re nothing like straight skis in shape and stiffness. Looking at the specs-
Dimensions:98-66-85mm
Sidecut Radius:
168cm: 20m
175cm: 22m
182cm: 24m

 

[cantunamunch]

Don’t think so. They’re just skinnier than most are used to and have less shape.

We're probably getting into semantics here, but I've never thought that a bad thing.

Specifically, the poster might be lumping steering the ski into a turn (and out of it, on ice) as an old school technique. In which case, maybe yes, at least to the level of early 97-98-99 shapes?

Also, the flex of most of these things isn't really geared to speed - they're closer to park ski flex than to all mountain frontside flex - which might fall under 'something special to know'

 

[François Pugh]

Just think of it as a cheater GS ski with no grip that will still fold up on you despite the lack of bite.

 

[Zrxman01]

You had me thinking on this one so I went down into the basement and retrieved a visual in ski widths and shapes for you.

Straight Un-drilled 1975 Rossignol Stratos in a 207.
Huge center groove and all.
182 Dynastar Twisters
184 Blizzard Latigos
180 Salomon S/Max Blast.

 

[Zrxman01]

And the bases. (Ok look past all the summer base wax).

 

[James]

Straight Un-drilled 1975 Rossignol Stratos in a 207.

Wow, what was a Strato 105? I had the 102.

 

[cantunamunch]

Wow, what was a Strato 105? I had the 102.

You got the extra paragraph about how awesome it is on ice and stuff - value!