Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

[cosmoliu]

I'll be following your comments with great interest @nay. I'm pretty happy with the CrossClimate 2s I put on last Feb, but this might be an even better option for the next go-round.

 

[nay]

I’ll be sure to post once I have some initial impressions. As I’ve said in excruciating detail over a long time, I don’t think that vehicles that have a lot of base traction and are heavier need a dedicated winter tire. Everything has gotten so much bigger, that “little” 2015 Forrester can hold a ton of cargo with the seats down and is still 3,500 lbs, so the line between truck performance and car performance gets narrower and has become more about towing (the Ascent pulls a 1,500 lb trailer like it isn’t there…outside of cutting fuel economy in half). My beloved 1997 Cherokee was a baller 4x4 and that thing was 3,300 lbs curb weight - ”small” ain’t what it once was.

It’s a bit tempting to put a 1” “lift” on the Ascent just to get some clearance and a heavier duty suspension, but I bought the 8 year 120K mile gold warranty package because there’s just so many sensors and turbo and other stuff that can go wrong and I’m not touching anything that affects that warranty. It’s a complete 180 for me in using old truck and doing all of my work to “dealer does everything and everything is under warranty”. So tires will be fun, I just need to prove out needing two sets on an Ascent before I’ll buy them and the Falken does look perfect given I put 70K on a set of Wildpeak ATs on the ‘04 Sequoia and they were still kicking at the end. I guess I’ll get to play with X Mode, too, and see how well it really calms down Safety Daddy when stuff gets ugly,

 

[Ogg]

I’ll be sure to post once I have some initial impressions. As I’ve said in excruciating detail over a long time, I don’t think that vehicles that have a lot of base traction and are heavier need a dedicated winter tire. Everything has gotten so much bigger, that “little” 2015 Forrester can hold a ton of cargo with the seats down and is still 3,500 lbs, so the line between truck performance and car performance gets narrower and has become more about towing (the Ascent pulls a 1,500 lb trailer like it isn’t there…outside of cutting fuel economy in half). My beloved 1997 Cherokee was a baller 4x4 and that thing was 3,300 lbs curb weight - ”small” ain’t what it once was.

It’s a bit tempting to put a 1” “lift” on the Ascent just to get some clearance and a heavier duty suspension, but I bought the 8 year 120K mile gold warranty package because there’s just so many sensors and turbo and other stuff that can go wrong and I’m not touching anything that affects that warranty. It’s a complete 180 for me in using old truck and doing all of my work to “dealer does everything and everything is under warranty”. So tires will be fun, I just need to prove out needing two sets on an Ascent before I’ll buy them and the Falken does look perfect given I put 70K on a set of Wildpeak ATs on the ‘04 Sequoia and they were still kicking at the end. I guess I’ll get to play with X Mode, too, and see how well it really calms down Safety Daddy when stuff gets ugly,

You could probably gain at least an inch with different shocks/struts and bigger tires, neither of which should affect your warranty. If the AT trail is anything like the AT3W it likely runs quite large. My Falkens are easily an inch bigger than the same size Hankooks I had previously. In fact my 285 70 17s are also labeled 33 x11.50 on the sidewall. Usually that size is closer to a 32, IME.

 

[nay]

You could probably gain at least an inch with different shocks/struts and bigger tires, neither of which should affect your warranty. If the AT trail is anything like the AT3W it likely runs quite large. My Falkens are easily an inch bigger than the same size Hankooks I had previously. In fact my 285 70 17s are also labeled 33 x11.50 on the sidewall. Usually that size is closer to a 32, IME.

The AT3W is a true to size tire, agree they run a good inch bigger than many of its peers like the BFG ko2 in those bigger sizes.

So little sidewall to work with here, though, and Falken specs them exactly to OEM size (my OEM tire is a Falken). There’s so much performance management in these newer cars around fuel economy that I want to be as exact as possible, entirely unlike an older truck.

 

[weatherman]

The AT3W is a true to size tire, agree they run a good inch bigger than many of its peers like the BFG ko2 in those bigger sizes.

So little sidewall to work with here, though, and Falken specs them exactly to OEM size (my OEM tire is a Falken). There’s so much performance management in these newer cars around fuel economy that I want to be as exact as possible, entirely unlike an older truck.

It's the tread depth that really sets the AT3W apart. I run them as my summer tire on my truck. As far as "performance management" goes, the automatic 4x4, ABS, and ESC do rely on the wheel speed sensors. They are designed to account for tire wear, but should be fine as long as you stick to the same general tire size. Likewise changing your tire size will impact your overall speed and break the calibration on your automatic emergency braking and adaptive cruise control. I for one love the electronic nannies and want to make sure they work.

 

[nay]

It's the tread depth that really sets the AT3W apart. I run them as my summer tire on my truck. As far as "performance management" goes, the automatic 4x4, ABS, and ESC do rely on the wheel speed sensors. They are designed to account for tire wear, but should be fine as long as you stick to the same general tire size. Likewise changing your tire size will impact your overall speed and break the calibration on your automatic emergency braking and adaptive cruise control. I for one love the electronic nannies and want to make sure they work.

Tread depth for sure, when I had it on our ‘04 Sequoia in a 34” size that was 20/32” tread depth new. That’s MT depth and I got 70K out of them.

The “trail” version for crossovers is 11/32. That’s still a lot for a car tire, but not for a truck tire. They should go on mid-Oct, ordering this week.

My wife drove home the other day with our daughter after doing some homecoming dress shopping and just let the adaptive cruise control drive home in traffic. It’s crazy how good that is, my daughter didn’t know she was using it, and just thought her mom was doing an amazing job keeping distance. I’m not messing with that stuff, at all, understanding that one tire size up likely wouldn’t change anything. It’s just not worth it since I can drop rim size by 2” to get the extra sidewall this car needs.

 

[davjr96]

Anyone happen to have experience with the Nokian Rotiiva AT plus vs the Nokian WR G4 SUV?

I currently run (and have worn out after about 45k miles) Falken AT3W 275/65/R18 on my lifted 4runner. I'm looking for something a bit better in packed snow for my next tire but I live in the SF Bay area and drive up to Tahoe so can't go full winter. I do occasionally go light off-road in the summer but winter performance is more important to me. Not super concerned about road noise for either option. One downside of the G4s is they are only available in up to 265 /60 R18 (stock size) so I'd probably need a set of 5 to have the spare match size.

Any thoughts, experiences, or other suggestions are appreciated. The Rotiiva's seem hard to find info on.

Don't know if this belongs here or the AT tire thread

 

[Near Nyquist]

Anyone happen to have experience with the Nokian Rotiiva AT plus vs the Nokian WR G4 SUV?

I currently run (and have worn out after about 45k miles) Falken AT3W 275/65/R18 on my lifted 4runner. I'm looking for something a bit better in packed snow for my next tire but I live in the SF Bay area and drive up to Tahoe so can't go full winter. I do occasionally go light off-road in the summer but winter performance is more important to me. Not super concerned about road noise for either option. One downside of the G4s is they are only available in up to 265 /60 R18 (stock size) so I'd probably need a set of 5 to have the spare match size.

Any thoughts, experiences, or other suggestions are appreciated. The Rotiiva's seem hard to find info on.

Don't know if this belongs here or the AT tire thread

I currently run the 265/70R17 Rotiiva AT on a 08 F150 Super Crew
On the I-80 route between Silicon Valley and Tahoe 550 mi/week in winter

Snow performance is great so long as you have tread
Ice performance isn’t as good as a dedicated snow or studs
Deep snow performance is also good

Handling on the way up and down I-80 is good with a truck
I have not found the limit with these tires as much as I have tried

I do burn through a set in around 2 years due to the weight of the truck and aggressive driving on I-80 between Applegate and Tahoe.

I probably will purchase a third set next season

 

[nay]

Anyone happen to have experience with the Nokian Rotiiva AT plus vs the Nokian WR G4 SUV?

I currently run (and have worn out after about 45k miles) Falken AT3W 275/65/R18 on my lifted 4runner. I'm looking for something a bit better in packed snow for my next tire but I live in the SF Bay area and drive up to Tahoe so can't go full winter. I do occasionally go light off-road in the summer but winter performance is more important to me. Not super concerned about road noise for either option. One downside of the G4s is they are only available in up to 265 /60 R18 (stock size) so I'd probably need a set of 5 to have the spare match size.

Any thoughts, experiences, or other suggestions are appreciated. The Rotiiva's seem hard to find info on.

Don't know if this belongs here or the AT tire thread

Goodyear Ultraterrain. We have them on our 2004 4Runner in a 33” size. Can’t believe how good that tire is in everything, and it’s quieter than the Falken and not as heavy duty so you don’t have the off-road focus drawbacks of the AT3W. Probably have 30K on them and they are like new with low wear, shockingly good in deep snow for the tread, still dead quiet on the highway (for a 4x4). That tire is pretty much the evolution of the AT3W. Only thing is it is a Discount Tire specific model.

Also look at the new Mickey Thompson Trail Boss - the newer the tire model the better with compound advances and that tread design is on point. I wouldn’t put a Nokian on a lifted 4Runner, but then I wouldn’t put an AT on a lifted 4Runner. Our winter tires are:

’95 Land Cruiser - 38” Milestar Patagonia MT (amazing in winter, this tire is just astoundingly good and quiet)
’01 4Runner - 35” Maxxis Razor MT
’04 Sequoia - 37” Cooper STT Pro
’04 4Runner - 33” Goodyear Ultraterrain

They all do really well and we deal with nasty grades, ice, blizzards, slush, etc. and that’s in my neighborhood. OK so that just made this a post for the hybrid thread. I’ve posted a bunch of winter stuff over there if that helps. The AT3W is a really good tire, but it can be improved upon pretty easily and it’s been around for 5 years now and showing it’s age a bit.

 

[nay]

Well here we go. Downsized rims from 20” to 18” and Wildpeak AT Trail mounted up. Looks badass, drives so much better and is properly absorbing the road now. First impressions A+.

 

[James]

Well here we go. Downsized rims from 20” to 18” and Wildpeak AT Trail mounted up. Looks badass, drives so much better and is properly absorbing the road now. First impressions A+.

View attachment 144206 View attachment 144207

What are the rims?
Is the driving better on smooth roads?

 

[Ogg]

Those wheels look too delicate for those tires. trucks and SUVs should have chunky wheels IMO.

 

[nay]

What are the rims?
Is the driving better on smooth roads?

Liquid Metal “Rotary”.

It’s a lot better - a lot more sidewall support as we’d expect here - and the rough road side is night and day. I was having a hard time not casing the rims on square edges hits and took a construction zone one I’ve been babying at normal speed with zero drama.

I was considering adding some Eibach lift springs to deal with this, but it was rims and tires as the primary issue so for now I’m tabling that.

I’d had a Premium model loaner for a day with 18” rims and had thought it drove better - those 20” rims are a problem, there’s just not enough tire and it interacts weirdly with the suspension.

 

[nay]

Nothing to report back on the AT Trail tires except highly favorable road use. We took a trip this weekend and have about 600 miles on the tires, lifetime for the vehicle is up to 4,600.

The total lifetime fuel economy has gone up .4 mpg - it started to creep up within the first 100 miles. The Ascent feels so much more planted and stable. Had it on just a bit of washboard/gravel road and that felt very good, too.

The stock tires were clearly deficient for this vehicle, so there’s no apples to apples here, but I’m really, really pleased. It’s transformed the rig. Still looking awesome - I clearly love split spoke rims.

 

[Chickenmonkey]

Do we have any info on how some of the newer tires are doing vs. known products? Maybe not in the premium category. Value? Ha. TireRack does not have winter info on the newer tires yet.

We have a Subaru Impreza that is not our primary snow car now, but it may join our son in Boulder, CO soon so they will be seeing winter conditions. At this point, we are not considering a full winter tire setup since he is in school, cost, and a lack of storage. Tires we are considering are:

Quadratic Pro
General AltiMax 356AS (new)
Firestone Weathergrip (new)
Noklian WR G4

What else should we be looking at? Tire size is 205/50/17 if that helps.

 

[James]

What else should we be looking at? Tire size is 205/50/17 if that helps.

Michelin Cross Climate2
Continental DWS06+
Bridgestone 980as+ (New)

 

[Chickenmonkey]

Michelin Cross Climate2
Continental DWS06+
Bridgestone 980as+ (New)

The Continental could work. The Michelin is more than we want to spend and I’ve had earlier versions of the 980 and they were lacking in the snow.

 

[Wendy]

I just put the Nokian WR G4’s on my 2022 Sienna Woodland. Already like how it feels better on the road. I didn’t want to deal with separate snow tires….plus we can get some warm spells in winter when it’s not great to be driving on winter tires.

Ratings online were very good from winter drivers in the Adirondacks and the UP.

I’ll report back when I get some winter driving in. We are driving to Duluth MN in January so that should be a good test.

 

[James]

The Continental could work. The Michelin is more than we want to spend and I’ve had earlier versions of the 980 and they were lacking in the snow.

Only have experience with the Quatrac Pro and Dws06+ But not in snow. Of those two, Continental is more of a drivers tire. Smoother, quieter, it’s a fun tire, but light.

Had the WRG3 for nearly 50k. At that mileage, you have to reduce speed for hydroplaning, and snow isn’t as good. But still fully functional. Ideally, you want to end the tires life in fall, and start new for coming winter. True for any of these.

The WRG3 was an excellent tire and good in snow. It was loud- Near the end I thought my wheel bearings were going, only after putting some dedicated winter tires on did I find out it was the tires. I was actually going to put the Wrg3’s back on for one summer, but covid changed things with using the car and just ended up getting new tires.
I believe the noise was one of the big things addressed in the 4.

Given those 3 tires nearly the same price I’d go with the Nokian.

 

[nay]

Falkens now on my daughter’s Forester - similar major improvement including much quieter than the stock ties.

Just waiting on snow.