Quick little weight transfers: what to work on?

[Yepow]

Don't forget to work on range of motion... lots of skiers have none, and yes, you need it.

Absolutely. My RoM is really actually quite bad in hips, back is tight enough that it's restrictive. I'm plenty strong (and will continue to do strength training for health/wellness) but continuing to focus on strength for skiing in the offseason is a mistake--lots of room for stretching, RoM, and proprioception work this summer. I don't think I've quite "thrown away" previous off-seasons, in that I've set up a good fitness base, but to get serious about skiing I need to bring my flexibility and proprioception from "bad" and "below average" to "above average", not get strength from "quite good" to "quite good plus 3% better".

I've got a booking with a physiotherapist who has done work with ski teams, and is a skier himself, next week, so we'll see what he has to say and recommend early next week.

 

[Rod9301]

Before anyone buys a Skier's Edge, ask here who has actually used theirs consistently after laying out the cash.

True, i had one about 20 years ago, and i only used it a few times.

Really dumb idea

 

[Rod9301]

Absolutely. My RoM is really actually quite bad in hips, back is tight enough that it's restrictive. I'm plenty strong (and will continue to do strength training for health/wellness) but continuing to focus on strength for skiing in the offseason is a mistake--lots of room for stretching, RoM, and proprioception work this summer. I don't think I've quite "thrown away" previous off-seasons, in that I've set up a good fitness base, but to get serious about skiing I need to bring my flexibility and proprioception from "bad" and "below average" to "above average", not get strength from "quite good" to "quite good plus 3% better".

I've got a booking with a physiotherapist who has done work with ski teams, and is a skier himself, next week, so we'll see what he has to say and recommend early next week.

Until you can leg press 3x you're body weight, more strength is beneficial.

 

[Yepow]

Until you can leg press 3x you're body weight, more strength is beneficial.

You mean on a incline sled? You mean as 1RM?

 

[geepers]

Until you can leg press 3x you're body weight, more strength is beneficial.

Beneficial for what? Skiing the Streif on Hahnenkamm?

An 80kg person leg pressing 240kg is absurd for rec skiing.

 

[Chris V.]

Until you can leg press 3x you're body weight, more strength is beneficial.

Not disagreeing, but mixing it with exercises that build strength and agility in cutting and torquing movements would be beneficial. In the gym, too many people focus heavily on straight line exercises, and for skiing you need more than that.

 

[Yepow]

Yes, I've got a lot of straight line strength, much less focus on the others. I can squat 1.5 bodyweight x10 reps, and I'm sure press 2-2.5x bw for reps, but again, getting from 77th percentile in leg strength to 79th for my age this summer probably less valuable than fixing my poor flexiiblity and proprioception. Not to say I won't be squatting, just that I'll be focusing my net new effort on those things.

And agility! Sounding like some ladder work might be good...

 

[Rod9301]

You mean on a incline sled? You mean as 1RM?

Incline, and no, 12 reps

 

[Rod9301]

Beneficial for what? Skiing the Streif on Hahnenkamm?

An 80kg person leg pressing 240kg is absurd for rec skiing.

Ok, i guess it depends on what you ski and how.

 

[Rod9301]

Beneficial for what? Skiing the Streif on Hahnenkamm?

An 80kg person leg pressing 240kg is absurd for rec skiing.

A 2g turn means twice your body weight on one leg.

 

[markojp]

I don't think we're talking sub 50 FIS point skiing there, rod.... just gett'in down the in functional balance and in order.

 

[geepers]

Ok, i guess it depends on what you ski and how.

Certainly. Managed to pass the CSIA L3 ski exam. It's a long way from the pinnacle of performance skiing but neither is it nowhere. (Was 64 y/o at that point.)

Another example. Here's Reilly McGlashan this season doing some sweet carving.



And here he tells us about his hip issues and rectification of... Probably best not to be too squeamish. Now, don't know for sure but willing to bet he's not leg pressing 3 times his body weight these days.



Here's Tom Gellie laying down some nice turns. Once asked him how much effort is involved in these hip on snow turns. "Not that much" was the answer. Sure, not-that-much is relative and Tom's fit, active and under 40. But he is not an advocate of rec skiers doing endless squats or strength work. More an advocate of leave that for the racers and instead learn to balance against the forces to keep the loads manageable.



So exactly what type of skiing are you doing? Some vid may be helpful.

A 2g turn means twice your body weight on one leg.

Yes, and that leg is largely extended.

A 2g turn requires the CoM to be 60 degrees inclined to the vertical. That's the inclination for the CoM, not the ski edge angle. 3g is 70 degrees inclination of the CoM.

 

[markojp]

I think at my strongest, I could freeweight squat 3 sets of 10 @ 325# (body weight 175-180) and one set of 10 @ 360#. At no time ever have I lifted 3 times my body weight, yet somehow I manage. Go figure, but then again, WC starts weren't in the cards.

(Edit, inclined press, yes, body weight x3 was doable, but IMHO not as effective in engaging the core as freeweight squats.)

 

[geepers]

Here's an interesting vid of Kristofferson training SL. Taking it the g meter is showing +/- of 1g. What's the max reading for the gates shown? In turns the highest was a tad over +0.4 in the run labeled "Run 3". (Suspect the g reading and the vid were a little out of sync on that run.)

As the vid says this was training just prior to winning back to back WC SLs.




BTW what a great vid demo of averaging 1g that @Jamt has pointed out elsewhere.

 

[James]

Didier Cuche workout. Five Hahnenkamm downhill wins. Ten years between the first and second. Last at age 37.

 

[geepers]

Didier Cuche workout. Five Hahnenkamm downhill wins. Ten years between the first and second. Last at age 37.

Hey, this would be a lot cheaper than a Skiers Edge.

 

[geepers]

Here's an interesting vid of Kristofferson training SL. Taking it the g meter is showing +/- of 1g. What's the max reading for the gates shown? In turns the highest was a tad over +0.4 in the run labeled "Run 3". (Suspect the g reading and the vid were a little out of sync on that run.)

As the vid says this was training just prior to winning back to back WC SLs.




BTW what a great vid demo of averaging 1g that @Jamt has pointed out elsewhere.

Not measuring the acceleration I thought it was. (CARV on the brain.) So not relevant. Be nice if a mod could delete post #94.

 

[Yepow]

It's all good I will continue to squat but at nearly 50 and not that burly I'll be topping out around squatting 300# and pressing 400# for reps, not squatting 400# and pressing 600# I enjoy that, it's good for me, I'm sure it's a reasonable amount of strength. If I figure out this, you know, separation and balance and am headed for the FIS circuit, probably will increase intensity

 

[Yepow]

Hey, this would be a lot cheaper than a Skiers Edge.

the 9 reps of this before I twisted an ankle would be EXCELLENT conditioning

 

[Yepow]

Two suggestions for dryland training for bumps here. The first is a classic with Jonny Moseley. But it's for zipperline competitive bump skiing, so Jonny isn't rotating his skis left and right much at all since that would slow him down. I suspect, since you mention pivot slips, that you are interested in rotating the skis without rotating the upper body. But from comments in this thread it seems that your RoM doesn't allow you to rotate feet/skis without rotating the hips. You could do some version of Jonny's extreme drill with that rotation, once you get the rotation going in the first place.

Jonny Moseley dryland training 2001

And to get to that point, you could first do ladder drills. Here's a fantastic set of 25 agility drills on a floor ladder. You could create drills for yourself that involve rotating the feet/legs but not the hips as you make your way along the ladder. Drills like this, on the floor in the gym, could certainly help you increase your foot/leg rotation speed. You wouldn't need to take a shovel to a hill and cut out steps like Jonny did. But that option is always a thought.

25 Agility Ladder Drills

One more. This one addresses the rotational upper-body/lower-body separation itself, which isn't addressed in the two videos above. I've looked for other dryland training videos for separation but can't find any.

Dryland Counteracting.

.

I have not done a bunch of agility ladder training--I suspect there's an opportunity for a mix of cardio and foot quickness (and again, I'm often over committing or not making little movements) so this sounds sensible and tiring. That is one of the hardest core things I've ever seen in the Moseley, and will not be digging hillside pits just yet (if this consigns me to terminal intermediate, so be it ;-) ) I can try the dryland counteracting -- I suspect my teenagers mocking me will be the limiting factor on how much I can do this drill in my boots with pairs of poles around my hips :-D

But honestly, I think without something like that dryland counteracting drill, come the winter, I will just be a slightly better balanced and more flexible version of my same shitty ski style. So these ski specific movement patterns, repeated over months, and evaluated at points to be sure I'm not doing it totally wrong, I think are probably pretty important.