School me on Skins

[Vinnie]

It probably wouldn't surprise anyone that I've research the heck out of skins to pick the right stuff for the skis I'm intending to use. I'm with @Slim that it makes little sense to scrimp when it comes to the skins because a bad skin can kill the entire experience no matter the rest of the gear you're on.

Everything I've found points to Pomoca as pretty much being the best choice. I'm specifically looking at the Climb 2.0 or the Climb Pro S-Glide. Anyone have any specific feedback on either of these two skins?

I have about 10 days on Pro S-Glides in varying conditions including hard pack (in-bounds uphill route) and powder. These are my first skins so don’t have anything to compare it to but both grip and glide work well for me. I really like the ready2climb system.

 

[Slim]

Would I really notice an increase in glide with the Pomoca Climb Pro S-Glide (mohair / nylon mix)? and not loose that much in grip?
My go to has been the Black Diamond Ascension (full nylon) for the Eastern Sierra
I'm sure the Pomoca's would be lighter and not as stiff as the BDs.

Yes, absolutely.
Even my mohair /nylon mix BD kicker skin doesn’t glide as well as my full size Pomoca mix skin, so same size, full nylon BD to mix Pomoca? Big upgrade in glide.

I am not sure what Pomoca skin I have, it’s a few years old, La Sportiva branded, but I do know it is mohair/nylon mix, and rated best in the Outdoor gearlab test at the time, for balancing grip and glide (and they were cheap).

I have found them sufficient in grip, but not skiing super icy conditions much, and I am more of XC skier, so always amazed what I skin up, YMMV

 

[Slim]

I just ordered Marker Frame bindings to skin up our 1,000 foot mountain in the East.

I'm thinking grip will be the most important for me being new to this with heavyish bindings.

Would the G3 Alpinist Grip be a better choice than the Scala? In general is that a good way for me to go? Or as a beginner would I be better with the Universal model to have better glide encouraging better technique?

You mean resort right?

For resort skinning, I think go with best glide.
Why?
You need more grip if skiing up an icy, estrablised old skin track. That doesn’t happen inbounds, because they groom.
You need more grip if skiing up very steep terrain. Perhaps because of trees or cliffs or avalanche risk limiting your options.
That doesn’t happen inbounds. There is always at least one green groomer, that is low angle.

So I would go with full mohair or faster gliding mohair mix.

 

[Slim]

Everything I've found points to Pomoca as pretty much being the best choice.

As mentioned above, I like my Pomocas, but the other European brands are great too.
I am less certain about G3 and BD’s skins.

My daughters (10 and 13) have Colltex Hybrid skins. Mohair/nylon mix and hybrid adhesive that makes it easy for even the youngest to rip skins with skis on (not much benefit for people with Shifts or Marker frame bindings, but if you have tech bindings, or Tyrolia or Fritschi frame bindings, that’s a big benefit.)
Also makes it easy for them to pul skins apart on their own.
Great grip/glide balance.
I read several reviews of the Contours that are really good as well.

And for those people shopping for skins, don’t forget the ‘ski branded’ skins. As long as you can use the tip and tail hardwear with your ski, it doesn’t matter if it says ‘K2’, ‘Volkl’, ‘La Sportiva’, or ‘Atomic’. They are still made by the same 5 brands of skin manufacturers:

Contour
Colltex
Pomoca
G3
Black Diamond

(Did I forget any ?)

 

[Primoz]

I'm specifically looking at the Climb 2.0 or the Climb Pro S-Glide. Anyone have any specific feedback on either of these two skins?

I have Climb 2.0 on my Rossi Seek7, and Free 2.0 on Soul7 and Super7, but have no experience on Climb Pro S-Glide. But when looking to numbers at Pomoca site (glide and grip), I would say they match to reality. Of course I can't say if kcal/h or g/cm2 really match to numbers, but feeling is that Climb is faster then Free and have slightly less grip then Free, which fits numbers on Pomoca site.
But for Climb Pro it should be that it's faster then Climb and also have more grip, which doesn't really fit my logic. But numbers for my skins match, so I don't doubt others wouldn't. So in this case I guess it's clear.... Climb Pro S-glide, if you ask me, especially if you can survive 100g more weight.

 

[Noodler]

As mentioned above, I like my Pomocas, but the other European brands are great too.
I am less certain about G3 and BD’s skins.

My daughters (10 and 13) have Colltex Hybrid skins. Mohair/nylon mix and hybrid adhesive that makes it easy for even the youngest to rip skins with skis on (not much benefit for people with Shifts or Marker frame bindings, but if you have tech bindings, or Tyrolia or Fritschi frame bindings, that’s a big benefit.)
Also makes it easy for them to pul skins apart on their own.
Great grip/glide balance.
I read several reviews of the Contours that are really good as well.

And for those people shopping for skins, don’t forget the ‘ski branded’ skins. As long as you can use the tip and tail hardwear with your ski, it doesn’t matter if it says ‘K2’, ‘Völkl’, ‘La Sportiva’, or ‘Atomic’. They are still made by the same 5 brands of skin manufacturers:

Contour
Colltex
Pomoca
G3
Black Diamond

(Did I forget any ?)

You did miss Kohla. Fischer's skins are made by Kohla and they get fairly good reviews. There are pre-cut skins from Fischer available for both of the pairs of skis I'm considering for touring use. Just not sure if I should do that or stick with the Pomoca skins.

 

[Noodler]

You mean resort right?

For resort skinning, I think go with best glide.
Why?
You need more grip if skiing up an icy, estrablised old skin track. That doesn’t happen inbounds, because they groom.
You need more grip if skiing up very steep terrain. Perhaps because of trees or cliffs or avalanche risk limiting your options.
That doesn’t happen inbounds. There is always at least one green groomer, that is low angle.

So I would go with full mohair or faster gliding mohair mix.

This was really helpful. Thanks!

 

[Steve]

The Universal G3 has been working well, certainly plenty of grip, even on the steeper sections.

 

[Slim]

@Noodler , funny, I just saw a Kohla skin somewhere, good catch!
All I remember about them is some poor reviews of the first gen vacuum skins., but I’m sure they have worked on that now.

 

[James]

It probably wouldn't surprise anyone that I've research the heck out of skins to pick the right stuff for the skis I'm intending to use. I'm with @Slim that it makes little sense to scrimp when it comes to the skins because a bad skin can kill the entire experience no matter the rest of the gear you're on.

Everything I've found points to Pomoca as pretty much being the best choice. I'm specifically looking at the Climb 2.0 or the Climb Pro S-Glide. Anyone have any specific feedback on either of these two skins?

You’d be interested in this. It is a few years old. The Pomoca scored last in climbing. What this means, I don’t know. I have basically no experience with skins to speak of.
I’ll probably get a Montana Montamix, partly because my local shop carries them. They offer 3 types of tip clips, but I’m not sure how one gets them.

https://www.climbing-skins.com/mobile/smartphone/downloads/die-alpen-11-2018-english.pdf

 

[pais alto]

IME it’s hard to beat Black Diamond nylon skins for steep, hard climbing. OTOH they’re also heavier and stiffer than Pomoca and BD mix or pure mohair. Trade offs...

 

[James]

What’s the deal with waxing skis you use for skinning? Don’t wax? Don’t use fluoro wax?

 

[cantunamunch]

What’s the deal with waxing skis you use for skinning? Don’t wax? Don’t use fluoro wax?

Use wax. If you actually need fluoros you will also need a moisture repellent skin treatment.

 

[Steve]

My wife feels that the first run, or first bunch of turns, feel really weird to her, too slippery. I haven't noticed that.

Does the glue on the waxed surface leave a short time residue?

 

[pais alto]

What’s the deal with waxing skis you use for skinning? Don’t wax? Don’t use fluoro wax?

Wax, but scrape and brush with conviction.

 

[Primoz]

What’s the deal with waxing skis you use for skinning? Don’t wax? Don’t use fluoro wax?

I wax normally. Actually you should wax way more then when not using skins, at least if you have skins with glue, as glue gets some extra wax out and ptex is gets "drier" faster. But I never bothered with fluoro waxes on ski touring skis, so no idea how would fluoro work (or not) on skins. Only thing you need to do is to scrape good and brush good, otherwise glue will be full of wax left on ptex, and you certainly don't want that

 

[ScottB]

I found waxing my skins (not the ski) made a huge difference in the glide. I have BD GlideLite Mohair Mix Climbing Skins and they were super grippy and very poor glide when new. After using them for a while, still not much glide, so I sprayed with silicon spray and waxed them with liquid ski wax. Way better glide now. The silicon spray got in the glue in spots, so that might not have been the best thing to do, but the wax really worked.

@Noodler,

I went through the exact process you are going through now. I will add a post to share my experiences. The article above pretty much agrees with my experiences and what I read on Blister about their experiences. I emailed them quite a bit about skins. In the end, I couldn't find Pomoca Race Pro 2.0 full mohair skins in the width I need (only available in Europe). I wanted full mohair skins for the glide, so I bought a pair of Contour Hybrid mohair and have not been able to use them yet. (I got them for 1/2 the price of Pomoca, and according to Blister, should glide very similar).. Pomoca has a lot of data in their catalog, but I had a hard time finding the model skin that had good glide numbers, so I gave up. Pomoca has changed things a lot recently, so a bit confusing. In the end I was looking for the Free Pro 2.0 skin to fit a 108mm wide ski (I wanted 110mm width). I would not buy the climb 2.0 unless you want a lot of grip, it has the worst glide rating of all their skins. I think the climb pro mohair would be a decent choice.

 

[Primoz]

For waxing skins, I just use either Swix CH8 or BP88 wax. Just drag it from tips to tails and problem solved. I do this probably once a month, as glide really improves. Not to mention you have way less chances for snow to build up on skins in crappy conditions.

 

[James]

For waxing skins, I just use either Swix CH8 or BP88 wax. Just drag it from tips to tails and problem solved. I do this probably once a month, as glide really improves. Not to mention you have way less chances for snow to build up on skins in crappy conditions.

So you just rub it on at room temp?

 

[Primoz]

@James yes. But try to do it in one direction (tips to tails) as also skin "hair" is sort of laid in that direction. But it's good to have piece of wax with you, as when snow starts to stick on skins, that's the only thing that will help. So it can easily be done out in cold too