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Shiffrin free skiing

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markojp

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The best skiers I know are always playing with something. Ask them, "what are you working on?" or similar, and you'll get a pretty clear answer. Watch them when terrain is less challenging. They tend not to waste vertical.... railroad tracks, one ski skiing, switch, etc.... they're almost always inventing new ways to play and feel something in a new or different way. (Show me someone who just straight runs a cat track, and I'll show you someone who's probably plateaued.) Rarely do they ski the same run in the same way day after day. They refine and get better over time, which is why I watch and think, "they're pretty good!"
 
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Uncle-A

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Shiffrin is so good she doesn’t look GREAT! (till you look really closely)
This thread has looked really really close. It picked every movement apart and as I said earlier just enjoy the skiing of one of the best in the world.
 

Sanity

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If you just ski ski ski, you'll refine whatever movement patterns you're using. Though you need to keep broadening your horizons to incorporate new movement patterns or refine other better movement patterns, and there are various ways of doing that, some more effective than others. Case in point, someone who just practices arc to arc carving spending years working to eliminate any semblance of rotary ends up sucking off piste as we've seen, because off piste requires multiple skill sets. Sure carving is an important skill to have off piste, but carrying that to the nth degree with years of effort to develop the perfect arc to arc carve is rarely useful in legitimate off piste skiing. There are much more important skill sets to develop, otherwise you become just a one trick pony on piste.
 

Dakine

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If you just ski ski ski, you'll refine whatever movement patterns you're using. Though you need to keep broadening your horizons to incorporate new movement patterns or refine other better movement patterns, and there are various ways of doing that, some more effective than others. Case in point, someone who just practices arc to arc carving spending years working to eliminate any semblance of rotary ends up sucking off piste as we've seen, because off piste requires multiple skill sets. Sure carving is an important skill to have off piste, but carrying that to the nth degree with years of effort to develop the perfect arc to arc carve is rarely useful in legitimate off piste skiing. There are much more important skill sets to develop, otherwise you become just a one trick pony on piste.

Some folks on here that claim they only use one movement pattern in all situations are an example of this.
 

jimtransition

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:roflmao:We never ever never ever EVER dare to call ourselves a 'great skier' or even 'good' in the PNW.... , matter of fact, if not buoyed with WC Globes, etc.... it generally brings on ridicule, and in 9,999 cases out of 10,000, rightly so. Freeride world champions don't call themselves good. Ingrid doesn't call herself good, nor does Deb Armstrong and other former US Team members who learned to ski and race here. There's not a 'good'* skier I know that would ever claim to be great. I very much doubt if Mikaela would call herself 'great'. I imagine she probably says, "I felt pretty good today", but you'll note the transitory nature of the statement. 'Good'? That's for others to attribute. A bit of humility is a 'good' thing. If you aren't seeing some folks as good as you on the hill, you need to find a bigger pond, put up some video for affirmation, or go ski with Tobin out at Mt. Washington. He's good.

* 'good' or 'strong' is generally the highest level of praise one gives or receives in the PNW/Coast mountains, usually accompanied by 'damn, that looked easy' as you trash yourself trying to do the same. And see how we got Mikaela back in the conversation? ogsmile

I am all for being humble, but I think you might be pushing it a bit far with this. I know quite a few competitive skiers, and most of them are very confident in their abilities. If you're standing in a start gate of any discipline, not believing you are better than everyone you're competing against, it is very unlikely you're going to win.
 

markojp

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I am all for being humble, but I think you might be pushing it a bit far with this. I know quite a few competitive skiers, and most of them are very confident in their abilities. If you're standing in a start gate of any discipline, not believing you are better than everyone you're competing against, it is very unlikely you're going to win.

Suppose it depends on external vs. internal motivation.... there's also a cultural component, but self confidence and boasting about yourself are two very different things. I've generally measured myself against myself. And yes, internally at a tryout or the like I'm thinking "I'm going to kick some ass", but that isn't something I'd say outloud.I have no idea what's going on in Japan these days, but when I lived there, it was much the same as the PNW. I knew most of the telemark world (and yes, the best were confident), one Alpine demo team member (also confident), but never once did I hear anyone toot their own horn. It's the boasting I was talking about. :)
 
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tball

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I think the key is "just" ski. IMO if you "just" ski you will reach a plateau and improve very slowly from there.
Most people who become great skiers ski with deliberate intention of improving, with or without a coach.

When you say "All I do is ski", don't you also think about your skiing and try to improve?
For sure. I think for many "all I do is ski" means constantly thinking about your skiing and how to improve.

I'll just add that doing so almost becomes unconscious. And, that having fun always comes first (for me). It's the fun of skiing that keeps me coming back and that mileage is key to improvement.

Great example, I posted a little video of me skiing bumps without poles last week:


I dropped my poles first run so I could video the fantastic conditions. I kept going for three more laps because it was a fun challenge and good for both my skiing and fitness. I guess that's a deliberate intention of improving! :ogbiggrin:
 
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4ster

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For sure. I think for many "all I do is ski" means constantly thinking about your skiing and how to improve.
I know that I am probably my own worst critic. Whether it is doing self analysis by watching video, feedback from someone else or just trying to tweak things from what l feel, I am always trying to squeeze more energy or better performance from my skiing. Just when I think I'm getting there I will watch someone like Shiffrin & realize that there is so much more!
 

Uncle-A

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I know that I am probably my own worst critic. Whether it is doing self analysis by watching video, feedback from someone else or just trying to tweak things from what l feel, I am always trying to squeeze more energy or better performance from my skiing. Just when I think I'm getting there I will watch someone like Shiffrin & realize that there is so much more!
Comparing yourself to MS is very unfair to you. She has the best of everything the sport has to offer. Equipment, Coaching, Fitness, and Countless hours on snow. Don't be so tuff on yourself.
 

geepers

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If we assume that the radius is constant along the edge it does not really matter where you measure.
However, it is interesting that FIS defines this by:
"
• at each point along the distance from bM to bHR the width must be smaller than at bHR .
• at each point along the distance from bM to bVR the width must be smaller than at bVR .
"

This means that you can manipulate the turn radiues by e.g. having a tighter radius towards the center of the skis.

It is mentioned in the text yes, but it is not the requirement. How on earth would the FIS TD take "a continuously differentiable and monotone curved arch" and check a competitors ski?

The FIS calc is for an "average" radius over the side cut. They do assume a circle - see below.

The width being smaller than bHR and bVR (respectively) moving towards bM doesn't impose much of a restriction on the curve. So that's why the " continuously differentiable and monotone curved arch". Not sure FIS would have included those words in the spec if they didn't mean it. In any case I'm not sure how that wording would allow a tighter radius towards the center of the skis. That would break monotone.

Can probably be 1st pass assessed by a Mk II eyeball and if there is any doubt a profile taken for more elaborate assessment. A Mk II eye ball is a normal eyeball trained by looking at your graphs for a minute or so. :)

In case anyone was wondering....
The FIS calc of radius is based on the theorem of intersecting chords of a circle.
1622067297371.png

In the case of skis the chord ab is formed by the ski and chord cd is formed by a perpendicular line passing through the ski midpoint. Of course that line must also pass through the center of the circle so that allows calculation of the circle diameter which is 2 times the radius.
1622068741709.png


a*b = c*d
2r = d + c = (a*b/c) + c
where a = b = L/2
and c = (S+H-2*W)/4

For a ski, ignore the "+ c" part as the sidecut is very small compared to the radius.

So 2r = (L*L/2*2)/(S+H-2*W)/4
2r = L^2/((S+H-2*W))
r = L^2/2*(S+H-2*W)
And convert to meters by dividing by 1000
R= L^2/2000*(S+H-2W)
 

geepers

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Yes, but can Mikaela ski bumps? :ogbiggrin:

Don't know about MS but the retired former WC technical skier at the front of this vid sure can!



Professional soccer players in the UK contracted to Manchester City in the time of Sir Alex Ferguson were forbidden under their contracts from playing any other sport during the football season in case of injury. That included golf! Wouldn't be surprised if there was something similar in the WC alpine athletes contracts or if they just chose to minimise risk. Sofia Goggia Jan 2021 is a case in point.
 

4ster

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Wouldn't be surprised if there was something similar in the WC alpine athletes contracts or if they just chose to minimise risk.
Shiffrin last week...

& Hirscher rips the bumps!!!
 

geepers

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Shiffrin last week...
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CPFONd1DH0P/?utm_medium=copy_link

Well, we are out of competition season for WC Alpine.

The soccer players could also do whatever the heck they liked out of their season. But in season... even golf was deemed too risky!
 

Dakine

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I don’t think she ever skis bumps. So probably not that good in them.
Not like the Mahres.

Wouldn't take long.
She went to Maui and decided to learn to windsurf.
At the end of a week she was waterstarting, jibing and generally ripping.
Normal humans take like forever to do that.
Professional athletes are not like normal humans.
 

4ster

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I remember early in her World Cup career when she posted video performing some feat of balance she was doing for training were she would leap from one pylon to another maybe 2 feet off the ground. People were up in arms that she shouldn’t be doing something so dangerous and that she could be injured :eek: !!!
I thought to myself geez do these people have any clue who they’re dealing with and the dangers of ski racing ?
 

slowrider

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Wouldn't take long.
She went to Maui and decided to learn to windsurf.
At the end of a week she was waterstarting, jibing and generally ripping.
Normal humans take like forever to do that.
Professional athletes are not like normal humans.
Neither are Natural Athletes. I've taught a few skiers that had exceptional skills in a matter of a few hours. They are wired differently than joe public. Very rewarding.
 
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