"Should You Tip Your Ski Instructor? If So, How Much?"

[crgildart]

Page 4 with at least 4 other threads of similar comments..

So how about tipping for take out? I was all in on it when indoor dining wasn't an option and because how happy I was that the place was managing to stay open. Now that we're back to business as usual, my tips at the take out counter have dropped quite a bit, but not completely..

 

[FlyingAce]

So the servers at my country club get paid $25/hr, and the cost of food has gone up. Do you still tip 20%?

 

[Tricia]

So the servers at my country club get paid $25/hr, and the cost of food has gone up. Do you still tip 20%?

Good question. I'd say yes, but it also depends on how good the food and/or service are.

 

[Bad Bob]

How much to tip an instructor? Were you happy with the lesson? If yes look in your wallet, now go to the ATM and get more cash to give the instructor.
Don't particularly care what gratuity I get, that is beer money. Do pay tips in cash to anyone, it is the only way to get around the taxes.

 

[pete]

There was a fun article a few weeks back in the wsj or nytimes on tipping burn out and a topic with local DJs

Callers ref a pour your own tap beer joint suggesting tips which another caller one upped noting some web sites were suggesting tipping after ordering.

I've tipped great ski instructing for kids, esp when the group clas turned to a semi private, but damn .... this last year a group lesson hit $260 (eight people) and its sad to think a resort isn't paying well enough for a living wage.

Oh, a lift ticket is needed too, at $260 walk up, it's just saddened me to think my kids can't afford to send their kids to the same school they attended

 

[geepers]

Good question. I'd say yes, but it also depends on how good the food and/or service are.

Should how good the food is matter in terms of tipping the service crew? They aren't responsible for the ingredients nor how the chef/s turn them into a meal.

If we do it means that the waiter who may be doing a world class job doesn't get rewarded appropriately because of factors beyond his/her control. But the restaurant owner who is responsible for that stuff does get the full sticker price for the meal (assuming it's not quite bad enough to refuse payment). So we end up shafting the world class waiter and rewarding the mediocre owner.

(Which means a system based on tipping has a tendency to lock in economic inefficiencies.... )

How this applies to ski instructing tipping.... should we tip more because it was a bluebird great snow day when the lifts ran like clockwork? And less when it's a rainy, scrappy mess and/or the lifts had issues?

 

[Tricia]

Should how good the food is matter in terms of tipping the service crew? They aren't responsible for the ingredients nor how the chef/s turn them into a meal.

If we do it means that the waiter who may be doing a world class job doesn't get rewarded appropriately because of factors beyond his/her control. But the restaurant owner who is responsible for that stuff does get the full sticker price for the meal (assuming it's not quite bad enough to refuse payment). So we end up shafting the world class waiter and rewarding the mediocre owner.

(Which means a system based on tipping has a tendency to lock in economic inefficiencies.... )

How this applies to ski instructing tipping.... should we tip more because it was a bluebird great snow day when the lifts ran like clockwork? And less when it's a rainy, scrappy mess and/or the lifts had issues?

Well, yes.
Its the service staff's job to convey to the kitchen staff when/if the customer is not satisfied.
Example: We had lunch at Molly Greens at Brighton Resort. The food was mediocre at best, the wings came out long after the rest of our food and they were cold. We tried to grab the waiter to let him know but he was buzzing around and not making any attempt to cicle back by our table, so we ended up eating the cold wings.
When he came to the table with the check, Phil told him about the cold wings and lousy chicken parm sandwich. The waiter literally said, "What do you expect me to do? I only work here."
Needless to say, no tip.

 

[SBrown]

How many country clubs even allow tipping, though? Of servers, I mean. I guess it is a thing now, but traditionally it is a no-cash policy at private clubs, with a service charge added and the “suggestion” to contribute to an end-of-year bonus pool evenly divided among staff. Which makes a lot of sense to me, but then you have the valet and the caddie and the locker room attendants… This is why it’s such a mess. Even when no tipping is encouraged, it’s isn’t consistent.

 

[geepers]

Well, yes.
Its the service staff's job to convey to the kitchen staff when/if the customer is not satisfied.
Example: We had lunch at Molly Greens at Brighton Resort. The food was mediocre at best, the wings came out long after the rest of our food and they were cold. We tried to grab the waiter to let him know but he was buzzing around and not making any attempt to cicle back by our table, so we ended up eating the cold wings.
When he came to the table with the check, Phil told him about the cold wings and lousy chicken parm sandwich. The waiter literally said, "What do you expect me to do? I only work here."
Needless to say, no tip.

Sounds like that waiter could have done with some customer service training.

However there things can be very dependent on the establishment. My wife worked for a time as a waitress and says some chefs are really sensitive to criticism and don't react well. She was once threatened with a meat cleaver by an upset chef for doing that bit about 'conveying to the kitchen staff when/if the customer is not satisfied'. And she's (mostly) quite diplomatic.

Have also seen situations where waiters have been hugely overloaded and it's really the owner's (or their appointed manager's) job to have appropriate staffing levels. In those cases the waiters may be working very hard indeed and hard pressed to keep anyone happy.

Gonna suggest that if companies want customers to pay the service staff wages through tips then we, the paying public, should have the right to fully tip the hard working service staff (where appropriate) AND correspondingly reduce the payment to the establishment for any lousy overall experience.

 

[Ogg]

Well, yes.
Its the service staff's job to convey to the kitchen staff when/if the customer is not satisfied.
Example: We had lunch at Molly Greens at Brighton Resort. The food was mediocre at best, the wings came out long after the rest of our food and they were cold. We tried to grab the waiter to let him know but he was buzzing around and not making any attempt to cicle back by our table, so we ended up eating the cold wings.
When he came to the table with the check, Phil told him about the cold wings and lousy chicken parm sandwich. The waiter literally said, "What do you expect me to do? I only work here."
Needless to say, no tip.

I'm not sure what I would have done in this situation. Waitstaff is seriously underpaid and usually overworked these days. Even for mediocre service I'll leave a reasonable tip. That being said their response is pretty crappy and I probably would have left them just enough to know "I didn't forget, your service just sucked" . If they had been more apologetic and said they were short staffed, had a new chef, etc. I probably still would have still given them a decent tip.

 

[Yepow]

I'm not sure what I would have done in this situation. Waitstaff is seriously underpaid and usually overworked these days. Even for mediocre service I'll leave a reasonable tip. That being said their response is pretty crappy and I probably would have left them just enough to know "I didn't forget, your service just sucked" . If they had been more apologetic and said they were short staffed, had a new chef, etc. I probably still would have still given them a decent tip.

spoken like you've been touched by his noodly appendage

 

[Tricia]

I'm not sure what I would have done in this situation. Waitstaff is seriously underpaid and usually overworked these days. Even for mediocre service I'll leave a reasonable tip. That being said their response is pretty crappy and I probably would have left them just enough to know "I didn't forget, your service just sucked" . If they had been more apologetic and said they were short staffed, had a new chef, etc. I probably still would have still given them a decent tip.

Exactly! I am really really easy on service staff, food industry, grocery store, retail...you name it.
If his reply were even a tiny bit reasonable....but...
"What do you expect me to do? I only work here."

And for the record, we went in for lunch around 11 to beat the crowd so the place wasn't overly busy.

 

[jt10000]

Well it's just a ski forum, not the the National Bureau of Economic Research. The standard for proper terminology is lower.

For some much more than for others.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

There's a minimum standard for clear communication which you can't go "lower". You don't call a ski boot a ski shoe even in a non-skiing forum.

For some much more than for others.

I still have no idea what terminology crosscountry thinks I used incorrectly. If he/she can just point it out, it can be cleared up.

But I would say, if a thread is talking about ski boots and somebody said shoe instead of boot, I wouldn't take it against them.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

Resorts justify their lesson prices because supposedly, “you are getting a professional instructor”. Well, then resorts should pay a professional wage.

Lessons are expensive. I do not believe that customers should subsidize instructor wages.

I do believe when instructors go out of their way to do more than teach the lesson, such as pick people up at their homes, make dinner reservations, spend an extra hour skiing outside the lesson, arranging for rental equipment, meeting an hour, early and having breakfast etc. that they should be tipped for the extra service.

I do tip instructors when I take a lesson, although the amount does vary.

I have also been the recipient of ridiculously generous tips. I spread the love to many different people.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

This does not hold true in any economics ecosystem I can think of. It might be highly infrequent or frowned upon.. but there will still be occasions where someone earning a decent wage also gets little extra.. tickets to game, dinner, or outright cash. Think of bonuses as tips too. There can definitely be businesses where management doesn't allow people on the clock to accept gratuities.. but there will still be other situations and business interactions where people earing a living wage receive a little extra here and there... from customers. it just isn't the norm.. Even happens in Japan..

I agree. It's very hard to simplify economic theory or hypothesis because the economic system is a complex beast. People just say ceteris paribus, all other things being equal, as a way of simplifying explanations in a complex system where an outcome can affect an outcome can affect outcome etc.

My ceteris paribus statement is saying "it's a zero sum game between a tipping society and a meritocratic society".

In truth, it's a spectrum, not a zero sum game. Wikipedia has a good graphic to summarise it

How one goes from meritocratic, non-tipping society to tipping society is good to think about.

The US is the outlier here. If I have to guess, the US started out as meritocratic, non-tipping society. Somewhere along the way, maybe during the roaring 20's or post-war period, people had more money to splash around and gave them away to waiters and waitresses. You can go to post #69 to see how this morphed into a tipping society.

For a meritocratic, non-tipping society like Australia, I think it's pertinent that consumers STOP tipping for these reasons:

1. It's not meritocratic. In a ski resort, tipping an instructor doesn't recognise the hard work of the groomers who worked from midnight. It doesn't recognise the hard work of the gate attendants who are freezing their ass off. Arguably, the work of the instructor is "easier" than the groomer or gate attendant. They get to ski after all!

2. The same can be said in a restaurant setting. The cooks are working in a high-pressure environment getting stressed by the head chef in a hot and sweaty kitchen. The dishwasher is drenched and wet over the course of an 8-hour shift. The waiters and waitresses get it easy compared to them.

3. Your normal consumer doesn't see the hard work of #1 and #2. All they see are front-facing workers like the waiters and ski instructors.

4. If Australians starts tipping #3, it will build resentment from #1 and #2. Why should #3 get more money when their work is "easier"?

5. If the tipping keeps up and money keeps rolling in for #3, the free economy will morph from meritocratic, non-tipping to tipping society as explained in #69. The US is the prime example of this. It might have taken 50-100 years, but it will happen eventually.

6. Tipping is sub-optimal for the consumer anyway. We pay more money than what's needed and calculating the gratuity in your head everytime is annoying than just paying the prices up front from the menu or price list.

 

[Tricia]

Well it's just a ski forum, not the the National Bureau of Economic Research. The standard for proper terminology is lower.

Just a ski forum?
Low standards?
I know its not brain surgery, or rocket science, but those of us who have sunk our lives into this site have pretty high standards.
We hope that setting the bar a little higher than the average forum will encourage members to rise to it too. Most do.

There's a minimum standard for clear communication which you can't go "lower". You don't call a ski boot a ski shoe even in a non-skiing forum.

This. Thank you.

 

[crosscountry]

So the servers at my country club get paid $25/hr, and the cost of fooI hd has gone up. Do you still tip 20%?

Yes, if you had been tipping 20% all along

Why? food cost had gone up because of inflation. So tips should go up too. Otherwise, the waiter got money that is worth less. Keep the percentage, the amount go up with the price.

In the event you think food cost in a particular restaurant gone up more than it should, perhaps eat elsewhere?

Should how good the food is matter in terms of tipping the service crew? They aren't responsible for the ingredients nor how the chef/s turn them into a meal.

My position is probably a bit unusual on this. If the food is below standard, I tell the server and expect a new dish made, or a discount to match the quality of the food.

On decent restaurants, servers would do that. I tip as usual if the new dish is up to standard. If it's a discount, I still tip according to the original (undiscounted) cost.

I've been in a few situation that, after I pointed out the food had problem (this could happen by mistake), I got a new dish AND a discount as an apology for the mistake. In this case, I add the discount amount on top of the usual tip. After all, I got the food I expected, I had planned to pay a certain amount. The restaurant gave me a discount to make me happy. I'm free to give that money to the server to make him/her happy.

But if the server did nothing, I lower the tip amount depending on how unsatisfied I was with the whole meal.

Waiters are the face/representative of the restaurant. They should know if they work for a shitty outfit, they'll get shitty tips.

 

[SBrown]

There's a minimum standard for clear communication which you can't go "lower". You don't call a ski boot a ski shoe even in a non-skiing forum.

Unless you’re in Germany…

 

[crosscountry]

Unless you’re in Germany…

I confess that's where I got the idea...