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Skis for a Newbie Instructor

Jwrags

Aka pwdrhnd
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I am looking for some ski recommendations for my son, who will be working as a first year instructor at Jackson Hole Mountain Resort this winter. He spent this past winter in Steamboat so his skiing certainly improved and he became much more aggressive on the slopes. He is looking for some skis to be his "teaching skis", keeping in mind that as a new instructor he will be doing a lot of "pizza" and "french fries". He is 23 yo, 5'10" and 145 lbs(distance running vegan). What skis would you recommend to him for teaching (he has other skis for freeride time)? For budget considerations previous years models would be a bonus. Thanks for your opinions.

Mods: I certainly understand if you want to move this but I thought this might be the best place to get recs from instructors.
 

HDSkiing

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Skis he doesn’t care about. He will be teaching Never Evers and kids who will invariably step on, ski over or bang into his. A ski on the narrower (-85) for Clinics, or if he wants to go for certification. He’s going to have a blast and hopefully earn some dough in the process!
 
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TS
Jwrags

Jwrags

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Definitely true. That’s one of the reasons previous season’s skis at discounted prices work. Suggestions on specific skis or at least qualities of the ski?
 

markojp

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Isn't there 1 school of thought that instructors for beginners should be taking out the same skis from the rental fleet; so they can show they can show the same techniques with the same gear?

No. Not that's a bad idea, but there are a bunch of reasons that it doesn't really work out including rent gear shortages on busy lesson days.
 
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markojp

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Skis he doesn’t care about. He will be teaching Never Evers and kids who will invariably step on, ski over or bang into his. A ski on the narrower (-85) for Clinics, or if he wants to go for certification. He’s going to have a blast and hopefully earn some dough in the process!

He'll also want to use them for training. A Nordica Navigator 85ti or 90ti would rock. (Avoid the CA versions of these skis.)
 

Tim Hodgson

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Welcome son of @Jwrags !

I am in between @raytseng @HDSkiing and @markojp on this issue.

Longer skis are hard to manipulate when you are trying to untangle students while in your skis. Shorter skis are easier when moving in and out of students.

You don't need to use rental skis (they will be way too soft), but I believe that a student benefits from your demos more if when they look at you demoing a turn of a certain radius/type they can make the same movements that you are making with your body to make those turns.

To make the same radius/type of turns that you want your students to make, you need to be on a ski similar to the skis that they are on because it will require you to use the same body/leg movements to make that same radius/type of turn.

For instance, if you want to teach your students to turn quickly into and out of the fall line by putting 90% of their weight their outside/downhill ski and simultaneously sliding their inside/uphill ski to parallel their downhill ski while on their short wasp-waisted rental skis, your demos will be a "confusing fail" if your body movements show a flat pivot of your long, wide-waist ski.

For instance, "Look at me, follow me and stay in my tracks" works best when your skis can make somewhat the same radius turns as your students' skis.

(Remember to tell students that one-half of turning is "Look where you want to go, so don't look at another student or a tree or a fence.")

It's been a while since I have taught never-evers and while all instructors must pay their dues by doing so, if you are good at teaching wanna be intermediates, you will be quickly used to teach them. Believe it or not, I teach intermediates on my $1,200 Stockli Laser SC's in 170cm. I have gotten pretty good at avoiding them running over the top of my skis, but if they do, oh well.

Join PSIA, you will get a discount on equipment.

Finally, you may want to think about teaching this way: You don't work for a ski school. You work for your students. If your students are safe, have fun and actually LEARN. They will be stoked. You may get tipped. And if you let your students know that, if they have the time and the inclination, it would help you out if they mentioned something nice to your ski school about you and the lesson. In this fashion, your ski school ultimately benefits.


Update: If you want to work allot of hours. Teach kids.
If you want to free ski and work fewer hours. Teach adults.
The terms "French fries" and "Pizza" apply to both.
 
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4ster

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I know when teaching the lower levels whether kids or adults I spent a lot of time spinning to switch. Sometimes to just make eye contact & give some words of encouragement or other times to actually catch the student along with other unworldly gymnastic maneuvers depending on the situation. I also want a ski that is fun to ski slowly on, pivots easily or can carve an arc without much help from outside forces.
Much of my teaching career was spent on straight skis so 204cm SL skis were pretty standard for me. In more recent times I would try to match my skis as closely to my students as possible considering what was available in my quiver. Modern short SL skis where what I would often use while teaching beginners mostly cuz they were not too cumbersome & easy to skate & hustle around. Regardless of what he chooses for a teaching ski everyone should have a pair of SL skis in their quiver. Keep an eye out & some jr. or masters racer will be unloading a pair of immaculately tuned skis for cheap.

Nowadays if I was a new instructor I think a mid width twin tip would fit the bill perfectly if I wanted a specific ski for teaching kids & beginners. My last years teaching were almost always on my 178cm, 101mm SkiLogik Ullr’s Twin Tips, Great ski for all levels & all conditions, something similar would be perfect.
Remember he wants to be skiing the same type turn & speed his students are learning, he just wants to demonstrate it perfectly with accurate movements. No need for it to be next years model or even a new skI, a used ski with some life left in it will work just fine. Also, students only thrash the tops of your skis so who cares!

Jackson Hole will get him in shape whether he is herding beginners or free skiing the big vertical. Hope he has a successful season!
 
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ss20

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Something that's 10-20cm shorter than his "regular" skis that he doesn't care about at all. Keep a pair he likes in his locker for clinics.

If he's a totally new instructor he won't be doing "a lot" of "pizza and french fries"... it's all he'll be doing. Kids and magic carpets are not a good combination at all for top sheet preservation. I had a "newer" instructor (she knew better...it was her third season or so)... she got these new Blizzard's and the top sheet disintegrated as the season progressed. I remember seeing the tiny chip out of it a couple weeks into the season and I remember by mid-March she was showing me the topsheet completely ripped out in places with fragments of epoxy left from the best attempts of our ski tech at the rental shop to help her.
 

ss20

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I know when teaching the lower levels whether kids or adults I spent a lot of time spinning to switch. Sometimes to just make eye contact & give some words of encouragement or other times to actually catch the student along with other unworldly gymnastic maneuvers depending on the situation. I also want a ski that is fun to ski slowly on, pivots easily or can carve an arc without much help from outside forces.
Much of my teaching career was spent on straight skis so 204cm SL skis were pretty standard for me. In more recent times I would try to match my skis as closely to my students as possible considering what was available in my quiver. Modern short SL skis where what I would often use while teaching beginners mostly cuz they were not too cumbersome & easy to skate & hustle around.

Nowadays if I was a new instructor I think a mid width twin tip would fit the bill perfectly If I wanted a specific ski for teaching kids & beginners. My last years teaching were almost always on my 178cm, 101mm SkiLogik Ullr’s Twin Tips, Great ski for all levels & all conditions, something similar would be perfect.
Remember he wants to be skiing the same type turn & speed his students are learning, he just wants to demonstrate it perfectly with accurate movements. No need for it to be next years model or even a new skI, a used ski with some life left in it will work just fine. Also, students only thrash the tops of your skis so who cares!

Jackson Hole will get him in shape whether he is herding beginners or free skiing the big vertical. Hope he has a successful season!

Lot of good stuff in here... good points about getting a ski that's easy to ski switch and fun to ski at slower speeds.

I'd also like to add go with a lighter ski...light as he can get. Being a new instructor and spending lots of time on the carpet is exhausting. He'll probably have the really little kids (3-5yo) who have a 50/50 shot at being able to get up by themselves. And it's always the kid last in line who falls while you're 50 feet down trail! Skate, skate, skate!
 

Philpug

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I'd say some cheap ski swap twin tips for teaching them invest in some better skis for the days off.
 

surfsnowgirl

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I teach in whatever I'm skiing on that day. I spend alot of time skiing backwards so usually prefer a twin tip or partial twin. However, if I've got a flat tail that day then backwards on those it is. Also for maneuvering around smething on the shorter end of my quiver makes life easier as well. Generally speaking I don't think it matters too much what's on your feet so I wouldn't stress about it too much.
 
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markojp

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FWIW, any modern ski will ski switch on piste just fine. I've taught first timers, adults and kids, on whatever I've had on my feet on a particular day.... 184 Monster 88, 177 Kore 93, a FIS SL... it really hasn't mattered. Don't overthink things too much other than sticking to 100mm and less underfoot.
 

LiquidFeet

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^^ What marko said. Going backwards with skis that have a flat tail, on a beginner groomer slope, is no problem. Twin tips are not required. Shorter rather than longer, yes, that does make it easier to maneuver around a group of small kids without getting your skis tangled up with theirs.
 

François Pugh

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He should be able to do it on pretty much anything, but as long as he has a choice, he should choose the same width and side-cut radius as what his clients will be on. If he is a perfectionist then also choose same stiffness for weight and length for weight too.
 

LiquidFeet

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Perfectionism is dysfunctional when the ski instruction is for beginners and novices. This goes for both kids and adults. Discard that thought fast. Flexibility rules.

In other words, as others have said quite rightly, don't overthink the skis. Something somewhat similar to what the students rent is fine, with a short radius, not so wide it's hard to get up on edge. You will be climbing uphill a lot, so if the weight will wear you down, avoid piston plates :ogcool:.

You won't want to change skis back and forth if you are busy teaching all day and opportunities to get on the hill come between lessons with little time to waste, so choose something you will be at least OK with when you go up onto the mountain.
 
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surfsnowgirl

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You won't want to change skis back and forth if you are busy teaching all day and opportunities to get on the hill come between lessons with little time to waste, so choose something you will be at least OK with when you go up onto the mountain.

This is exactly why I ditched the idea of a teaching ski, at least for me. I never know when I'll get a lesson where I get to go up on the hill, the chance to go take a training run or a free ski run.
 

martyg

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I don't teach kids. If I did, I would be on rentals.

With adults, and most of the time I am on easier trails on the mountain, I go for a ski that is easy to drive. Something that I can be on all day, and not have to think about. The Dynastar Speed Zone 10 was a great ski for me. I an on AXs now. Both were easy to drive, yet fun to ski on when I free skied. Your skis should, in at least part, be an appliance that makes you look good.

In my other realm, WW kayaking, I look for a boat that is an awesome teaching and rescue platform. I might need to carry food, water, extra clothing, FA kit, maybe a trauma kit. I want something that enhances my ability to do my job, not the latest low volume playboat. When running certifying instructors or working with Instructor Trainers, and someone shows up in that low volume playboat, I take every opportunity to try and drown them when we get to the point where they are leading the class.

@snowsurfgirl brings up a good point about free skiing if I can get a quick free run in before check in, and then have students the rest of the day, my day goes so much better. I think it is important to remember that pay sucks, and instructors are generally treated like shit by management. So I look for a ski that is not just a total teaching appliance, but is also fun.

I typically run two identical pair. One pair goes home every week for a spa treatment.
 
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