Skis for a Newbie Instructor

[martyg]

FYI, some Ski Schools prohibit skiing switch for any extended length of time while teaching.

PS No doubt, I will quote LF this season “Perfectionism is Dysfunctional.”

And some L3 examiners will require you to ski switch, so there is that.

 

[HDSkiing]

Perfectionism is dysfunctional when the ski instruction is for beginners and novices. This goes for both kids and adults. Discard that thought fast. Flexibility rules.

PS No doubt, I will quote LF this season “Perfectionism is Dysfunctional.”

Yeah I’m stealing it too.

FYI, some Ski Schools prohibit skiing switch for any extended length of time while teaching.

Don’t quote me, but I think this may be the case at all VR schools. Skiing switch has its place, but maybe not on a crowded novice run with a class in tow. With the exception of a couples runs, I don’t prohibit it with our staff, certainly it’s ok to spin around to make sure you have everybody, that sort of thing and of course if your teaching switch, which all the kids want to learn anyway so they can go bomb the park, lol. Either way any flat tailed ski will ski switch just fine on the groomed.

Since the OP asked for suggestions I’ll throw one out, the Head iRally. I’ve used this ski as a One quiver, taught in it, did certs in it and yes you can ski powder and bumps in it. It’ll make any type of turn and is a great ski. its Been around for awhile and I imagine can be found in ski swaps.

 

[dovski]

I am looking for some ski recommendations for my son, who will be working as a first year instructor at Jackson Hole Mountain Resort this winter. He spent this past winter in Steamboat so his skiing certainly improved and he became much more aggressive on the slopes. He is looking for some skis to be his "teaching skis", keeping in mind that as a new instructor he will be doing a lot of "pizza" and "french fries". He is 23 yo, 5'10" and 145 lbs(distance running vegan). What skis would you recommend to him for teaching (he has other skis for freeride time)? For budget considerations previous years models would be a bonus. Thanks for your opinions.

Mods: I certainly understand if you want to move this but I thought this might be the best place to get recs from instructors.

I think the only way to truly answer your question effectively will be if your son invites us to ski with him at JHMR. To be accurate we really need that on the snow experience at JH with your son, so thank you for the invitation, please send details on where you are hosting us and lift tickets so we can start planning for a thorough multi day assessment

 

[James]

Isn't there 1 school of thought that instructors for beginners should be taking out the same skis from the rental fleet; so they can show they can show the same techniques with the same gear?

No. Makes almost no difference.
For a couple seasons years ago we had Elan short carving skis that every beginner got and you went and picked one of those off a rack for those lessons. (There were 3 sizes, but we never ended up doing the 113-133 progression.) The ones we used could have been 113 or 123. The worst part was the bases were so dry and hairy they stuck. We used to carry wax because the shop wouldn’t fix them.

Honestly, doesn’t matter all that much, something you like to ski on or should learn to ski. Unless you’re teaching a very specific thing like park where you need to do rails, or land jumps switch. I would say not center mounted, unless that’s all you have, and you really should learn the other.

Twin tips are annoying with the big tails that take up too much space, plus people following you at some speed get sprayed in the face. Walking with them tails in the snow is worse. You can ski switch on any ski. Btw, people love to ski backwards after their initial “no way!”.

I really don’t understand the “skis you don’t care about”. Yeah the tops will get scratched, why care? You ski on the bottoms. I draw the line at kids trying to step on the raised tip.

Something with decent sidecut is often better just to show how skis will carve - in a relatively small amount of space.
On the other hand, I remember when we went to shaped skis how much worse they were at wedging. But that was a long time ago.

The upshot is, it really doesn’t matter that much. Shorter, narrower, lighter generally. You’ll have to carry them. But, he’s young, and most of my time was spent teaching on heavy race type skis anyway. I’d say under 88.

What type of skis has he currently or has he skied in his last seasons?

 

[Bad Bob]

Start with whatever is in his quiver and go from there. Seems like there is always someone trying to empty out their locker a little as the season gets started. It is more about the how than the what.

Teaching beginners is not rocket surgery.

 

[Henry]

Good points above...something that is fun, nimble, easy to turn, easy to sidestep uphill. Relatively short, narrow, narrow waist, easy to skid as well as carve. A not-demanding ski where the ski keeps its aplomb when the instructor is looking around at the group of students, talking about the movements, dodging slowly through the group to get to the one who needs a hand up. The Head Rally series of any year is a good yardstick to work with.

 

[markojp]

Start with whatever is in his quiver and go from there. Seems like there is always someone trying to empty out their locker a little as the season gets started. It is more about the how than the what.

Teaching beginners is not rocket surgery.

The only exception if there's a choice, is to NOT ski anything wider than 100 underfoot.

 

[Rich McP]

And some L3 examiners will require you to ski switch, so there is that.

Not anymore in RM. Switch has been relegated to FS where it belongs.

 

[4ster]

For a couple seasons years ago we had Elan short carving skis that every beginner got and you went and picked one of those off a rack for those lessons. (There were 3 sizes, but we never ended up doing the 113-133 progression.) The ones we used could have been 113 or 123. The worst part was the bases were so dry and hairy they stuck. We used to carry wax because the shop wouldn’t fix them.

We had the same with the Rossi series skis, 110, 120 & 130, Around the same time as “stepping stones”. Man I loved teaching beginners on those, even used them for some of my advanced students & instructor clinics learning to carve. I had sone great progressions with many options depending on student needs.
Then along came fat rockers & all hell broke loose. Very few were interested in learning good technique anymore just go straight, lean back & pitch em’ sideways... whatever

Twin tips are annoying with the big tails that take up too much space, plus people following you at some speed get sprayed in the face.

Good point! Although TT’s don’t throw much spray at beginner speeds. So I’m back to thinking SL skis or something like the iRally.

 

[4ster]

Don’t quote me, but I think this may be the case at all VR schools.

Wow! Sounds like Vail is doing their guests a big disservice by not allowing pros to be pros . Silly lawyers

 

[tball]

He is 23 yo, 5'10" and 145 lbs(distance running vegan). What skis would you recommend to him for teaching (he has other skis for freeride time)? For budget considerations previous years models would be a bonus. Thanks for your opinions.

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www.skis.com

Navigator 80 is basically the same ski as the 85 and 90 recommended here:

He'll also want to use them for training. A Nordica Navigator 85ti or 90ti would rock. (Avoid the CA versions of these skis.)

I'm not an instructor but bought the Navigator 80 to ski with my kiddos for the same use case. Here's when I first got on them:

Best (one ski) Ski School Quiver

When Is there an exam at Abasin?

www.skitalk.com

They really made the last couple of years skiing with my kiddos so much more fun. They like to turn and do so nicely at slower speeds.

Here's a post after I got them off the beginner side of the hill:

All-mountain ski that is great in the bumps

I’ve found that stiff carvers can be nightmarishly bad in bumps but most everything else is workable, especially if you’re proactive with the back-pedaling and absorption. Skis with early rise or super soft tips solve some problems (ie, you can get away with not absorbing), but I found causes...

www.skitalk.com

And, they even won my quiver shoot out in spring conditions on Palivachini at A-basin:

Slush/Crud Ski for old legs?

Was it Nordicas a few years ago that were noodly?

www.skitalk.com

I'm on the 172 at 5'10 185. I also bought the Navigator 90 in 179 for a longer, wider option. The shorter, narrower Navigator 80's are much better all-around for me, they just have a lower speed limit and lack surface area for deeper snow.

I'm looking for another pair of Navigator 80's in 172 after beating mine up in the bumps. Does anyone know why they are not for sale anywhere?

 

[mikel]

I'm looking for another pair of Navigator 80's in 172 after beating mine up in the bumps. Does anyone know why they are not for sale anywhere?

If I see any at snow daze I will let you know

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Paging @TPJ to the SkiTalk Courtesy Phone

I'd say some cheap ski swap twin tips for teaching them invest in some better skis for the days off.

A little shorter than usual to get around on. Plan on your instructor skis to pretty much be trashed by beginners at the end of the year. Cheap, easy to turn, climb over other skiis and people.

 

[Steve]

I've been using my old pair of 165 Fischer Hole SL's for teaching for a number of years. Great teaching ski and I don't feel the need to swap them out between lessons when I free ski. Easy to ski backwards, slow, whatever you want to do.

You can get used 165 SL's with bindings cheaply from racers looking to upgrade. Maybe a little slim on the edges, but I've certainly never run out of edge and these are 2009 skis which I bought used from a Master's racer in 2015 and have over 80 "days" on.

 

[James]

I've been using my old pair of 165 Fischer Hole SL's for teaching for a number of years.

A few years ago an instructor’s daughter was in my group. She had some junior Fischers with holes that are bigger. You could fit a race pole basket right through the tip. So I told her, here’s what those holes are for- as we go to the lift loading line, position the poles in the holes bit don’t let the tips touch. When your feet get to the line, jam the pole tips into the snow. It’s like brakes on a bicycle. She thought it was funny, her dad not so much.

 

[migdriver]

I’ll add my $ 0.02 on something no appears to have considered ; bindings.
Two years ago I was a “ new” instructor at the CA ski area which is about to get a new name. I had 60 years experience skiing , racing etc. but was new to instructing. I was assigned the usual new instructor never ever classes which I taught using not quite skied out Head FIS SL., 165cm , of course with Head plate/ race bindings set way back to a 7.5 DIN .
The skiis worked great; the bindings too untill a mid January day standing stationary at the top of the carpet when a never ever student slid into me at walking speed from behind … ended up his skiis on both my tails…pushed my skis out form under me and I fell backwards , spread eagled. Right ski released laterally, left stayed on. Bottom line: torn left MCL, Tibial Plateau fx, and Femoral bone bruise.
For the remainder of the season ( off snow obviously) I was tasked with doing a 3 year retrospective instructor injury study - adults and kids. The instructor corps is / was 400+ full and part time instructors each season. The resort with no name keeps highly detailed incident reports, as do most large resorts.

The 2 most common types of instructor injuries over the 3 year period resulting in loss of work were: student - instructor collisions, and slow speed “ entanglement “ - typically occurring when getting off a chair. And most instructor injuries occurred during beginner or low intermediate lessons. Not hucking off the Palisades with advanced classes or running the many chutes but on what most would call v low risk flat terrain with lower level skiers.

Bottom line: regardless of your ski choice the data - limited though it is- would suggest that a capable recreational binding with reliable multi directional including upward toe and lateral heel release is a good idea even , or especially if you’re teaching low level skiers.
We’re all so attuned to picking a binding to keep us in the ski at mach schnell speeds and through bumps, or pounding through crud etc etc etc that we forget that slow speed or stationary falls from a slow collision or when the student steps on one or both your skis as you exit the chair : you want a binding most capable of releasing under those circumstances. Race or other max performance bindings even with a lower level DIN ; maybe not so much. Just a thought.
Oh and a comment re rental skis: during on snow orientation for us new bee instructors they took us through first hand what never ever or beginner skiers experience when they rent equipment. We skied half day in our own boots but on the beginner rental skis. The so called “ beginner experience “ - Thanks , Dan - was educational and when it came time to ski down Mtn Run at the end: terrifying ! Stick to your own equipment on which you’re comfortable skiing and doing demos. That’s my take anyway.

 

[Jwrags]

I want to thank everyone who has commented here with all of their years of wisdom. I have directed my son to this thread and will see what he ultimately does. I think right now he is waiting until closer to the season to decide or even when he can get a employee deal and demo. So much useful information here. Thanks again.

 

[Steve]

@migdriver I know that the time that I pay the most attention on the hill is getting off the lift with a student (or stranger.) We have a wooden 2-seat beginner chair, low to the ground, but with a fairly steep off-loading area. It scares me every time I get off of it unless I'm alone on the chair. I hold the arm of the chair, wait and get off last, looking down at my skis and move away to the side. Interesting statistic that it is where the most injuries happen. Doesn't surprise me.

 

[migdriver]

@migdriver I know that the time that I pay the most attention on the hill is getting off the lift with a student (or stranger.) We have a wooden 2-seat beginner chair, low to the ground, but with a fairly steep off-loading area. It scares me every time I get off of it unless I'm alone on the chair. I hold the arm of the chair, wait and get off last, looking down at my skis and move away to the side. Interesting statistic that it is where the most injuries happen. Doesn't surprise me.

Funny how beginner chairs often have fairly steep ramps… suspect its to get the less skilled skiers out of the unloading area asap and move the inevitable crashes further away from actual unload spot? Prob with delayed exit for the instructor is : no where for you to go when student/ beginner suddenly turns/ crashes in front of you or worse steps on your skis and grabs your jacket for support jst as you push off from chair… my remedy if it looks like someone is about to entangle me is to not be bashful about pushing them away so they can have a solo crash without me, hopefully. Sometimes ( as the stats show) you’re going down with them … hopefully without either getting hurt.

 

[markojp]

Beginner chairs are often the oldest on the mountain. When they finally get replaced, things get better.