Specialized Layoffs

[tball]

The same economics are at work as with housing...this shouldn't surprise anyone.

And cars. You can't buy a Toyota Yaris or a Honda Fit anymore. They eliminated the low-end models. I believe many other automakers have done similar. (Used occupies the true low end.)

 

[scott43]

As an example, Specialized Gravel bikes..ordered in Ascending Price...

So you can dump $1900 on a mechanical disc bike..or drop another $1k to get hydraulic discs..then another $800 to go to 1x. I'm thinking there's a lot of room in between $1900 and $3k for some OTHER alternatives. And these are the lowest priced gravel bikes.

 

[cantunamunch]

^ in the tinkering vein, imagine a Diverge E5 EVO with a zero-reach, carbon version of a Scott drop-in bar...

 

[crosscountry]

The way I'm seeing it (in the upgrade path right now), there's no "package saving" in buying a full bike as in the past.

I'm just as well off by getting a frame and build it up with components of my choice. In a way, I'm better off building it up myself as I can save some money or getting better stuff by picking lower/higher level components to suit my particular riding style.

To make that process even less pricy at the moment, I'm just going to replace components of my existing bike than buying a new one! There will come a time I want a new frame. But that time isn't now. Screw the "bike manufacturers" who don't care to serve people like me.

I'm thinking there's a lot of room in between $1900 and $3k for some OTHER alternatives.

Yes, there are. The "independent" and/or "boutique" frame makers are priced very competitively to the Specialized etc.

Basically, one can get a pretty darn good frame, hang some solid but not high end parts on it for now. Wait for e-components to drop in price in a couple years and get the bigger bang for the same buck.

 

[scott43]

The way I'm seeing it (in the upgrade path right now), there's no "package saving" in buying a full bike as in the past.

I'm just as well off by getting a frame and build it up with components of my choice. In a way, I'm better off building it up myself as I can save some money or getting better stuff by picking lower/higher level components to suit my particular riding style.

To make that process even less pricy at the moment, I'm just going to replace components of my existing bike than buying a new one! There will come a time I want a new frame. But that time isn't now. Screw the "bike manufacturers" who don't care to serve people like me.


Yes, there are. The "independent" and/or "bou,tique" frame makers are priced very competitively to the Specialized etc.

Basically, one can get a pretty darn good frame, hang some solid but not high end parts on it for now. Wait for e-components to drop in price in a couple years and get the bigger bang for the same buck.

So I'm in the process of trying to build an All City frame up..or Veloheld. It's tough , parts are not as cheap individually as you know. But you can drop dough where it matters to your own build. I dunno what this will look like ultimately but part scarcity is a pain...

 

[Tony Storaro]

There's a serious danger of developing another missing-middle, just like with housing.

Basically all the 105/Ultegra level bikes disappear off the planet, and consumers get squished into racer/boutique, e-bikes, or budget hybridish stuff.

The prelude to that (let's-say-notional, but is it really?) phenomenon would look exactly like what you and @Jersey Skier are both saying.

Nah. Such move will only speed up the inevitable-Sensah, Winspace, Farsports, Yoeleo etc going mainstream.
Shimano already realized that making 105 Di2 only was quite dumb move and they are coming with mechanical version too so dunno.

As for Specialized, I am done with them. After almost 2 years trying to get a SL7 I decided it was just not meant to be and this spring I am buying a Colnago C68 or similar.

 

[wooglin]

To make that process even less pricy at the moment, I'm just going to replace components of my existing bike than buying a new one! There will come a time I want a new frame. But that time isn't now. Screw the "bike manufacturers" who don't care to serve people like me.

Just checked. The oldest active component on my bikes is a Campy Record (maybe NR) front derailleur from the mid 70s. Lord knows how many miles I must have on that thing. Course, it helps that I don't use it much.

 

[wooglin]

Nah. Such move will only speed up the inevitable-Sensah, Winspace, Farsports, Yoeleo etc going mainstream.
Shimano already realized that making 105 Di2 only was quite dumb move and they are coming with mechanical version too so dunno.

For folks contemplating a gravel build.

Gevenalle – Cyclocross Shifters & Accessories

 

[crosscountry]

part scarcity is a pain...

That "pain" is going to be with us for some time. But the solution to that problem isn't paying for a higher priced part that are supposedly "better" but of no use for us. (well, the manufacturers are going that path, but we consumers don't have to follow).

I'm fortunate that I have multiple bikes. So together, I have what I need. Granted, I want my newest bike(s) to suit me the most as that means I get to use that the most. I wish I have 2 bikes instead of 5 (keeping them in working order can be a bitch). But I haven't found one that's available in pre-packaged form. So I know all along I'm in the mix-n-match game anyway. One came soooo close... but in the end not. Back in the mix-n-match game again.

The oldest active component ... Course, it helps that I don't use it much.

If you're not using it, does it still count as "active"?

 

[wooglin]

If you're not using it, does it still count as "active"

Use it more now than I used to. See the "slowing down" thread.

 

[scott43]

I had 4 bikes..down to 1..will probably end up at 3 eventually.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Saw this coming.

Last month we got an email about employee purchases. Normally bike shop employees are allowed to purchase one MTB and one Road bike at a discount, for personal use. Last month we got an email that said "in the spirit of the season, blah, blah, blah....we can now buy 5 adult bikes each and an unlimited quantity of children's bikes." Ya think they're sitting on inventory? Right around the same time there was an article about how Giant Bikes couldn't pay their debt on time.

After stringing me along for two years on getting a Crux, how about zero Specialized bikes? Playing my tiny violin now.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Not anymore, at least not on all models. Specialized has dropped retail prices on certain models to well below my cost. Totally killed the value of my inventory. I will have negative margin for the first time ever if I sell at MSRP. Specialized just recommends buying more so I can dollar cost average.

We dropped them this summer. I wonder how many others did the same when they decided to take the inventory we ordered and sell it online themselves.

 

[Tom K.]

Not anymore, at least not on all models. Specialized has dropped retail prices on certain models to well below my cost. Totally killed the value of my inventory. I will have negative margin for the first time ever if I sell at MSRP. Specialized just recommends buying more so I can dollar cost average.

With Specialized you are a customer, not a partner.

 

[Tytlynz64]

I think there is another factor that is seeing a correction and that is the geography/terrain epiphany that some new aspirants have had. in the MTB arena, most companies market the gnar crushing high travel bikes to people who lack skill to ride moderate features without the crutch of surplus suspension. But when they develop skill the lightbulb goes off that the tool they have is overkill for what they actually ride. I found a top fuel 8 in my size and grabbed it. I updated the rear shock. Risers, bars and saddle. I had intended to do more until I realized it was perfect for my needs as is. The shops I went to kept trying to upsell longer travel bikes under the guise of fit. I need pedaling efficiency in flyover country. I have the skill to ride just about anything just about anywhere on this ride.

Now that bike would be considered a lightweight in true mountains but is it? The problem of making the differentiation within brands, cc, trail, down country, enduro bikepacking etc is that eventually you run out of parts and have to allocate to the products you think you can sell at the best margin. That leaves fewer options in level where most people be best suited. And the problem is exacerbated with further product ranges, gravel, commuter, road, road racing, beach cruiser etc.

I do not ride on pavement anymore after having been hit twice by cars. I could ride my bike if I chose. Perfect tool? No. But what gains are gained by non racers with all the specialization that are truly needed for a recreational hobby? (Rant over pulls up specialized page to see if prices have dropped on epic expert)

 

[Philpug]

I think there is another factor that is seeing a correction and that is the geography/terrain epiphany that some new aspirants have had. in the skiing arena, most companies market the gnar crushing wide skis to people who lack skill to ski moderate terrain without the crutch of surplus width. But when they develop skill the lightbulb goes off that the tool they have is overkill for what they actually ski. ...

FIFY.

 

[Tytlynz64]

FIFY.

Totally different @Philpug. Biking is exercise skiing is religion. Skinny skis are a vestige of the Inquisition designed to make the masses suffer in attempt crush all will to resist authority.

 

[scott43]

I think there is another factor that is seeing a correction and that is the geography/terrain epiphany that some new aspirants have had. in the MTB arena, most companies market the gnar crushing high travel bikes to people who lack skill to ride moderate features without the crutch of surplus suspension. But when they develop skill the lightbulb goes off that the tool they have is overkill for what they actually ride. I found a top fuel 8 in my size and grabbed it. I updated the rear shock. Risers, bars and saddle. I had intended to do more until I realized it was perfect for my needs as is. The shops I went to kept trying to upsell longer travel bikes under the guise of fit. I need pedaling efficiency in flyover country. I have the skill to ride just about anything just about anywhere on this ride.

Now that bike would be considered a lightweight in true mountains but is it? The problem of making the differentiation within brands, cc, trail, down country, enduro bikepacking etc is that eventually you run out of parts and have to allocate to the products you think you can sell at the best margin. That leaves fewer options in level where most people be best suited. And the problem is exacerbated with further product ranges, gravel, commuter, road, road racing, beach cruiser etc.

I do not ride on pavement anymore after having been hit twice by cars. I could ride my bike if I chose. Perfect tool? No. But what gains are gained by non racers with all the specialization that are truly needed for a recreational hobby? (Rant over pulls up specialized page to see if prices have dropped on epic expert)

How many people getting into MTB are crushing drops?? Some can barely ride a roll.. or bunny hop. $6k guiy that. Just shake my head..

 

[Tytlynz64]

How many people getting into MTB are crushing drops?? Some can barely ride a roll.. or bunny hop. $6k guiy that. Just shake my head..

Agreed. In my case I kept being pushed to a carbon frame. I asked what's the diff between carbon x model and alloy y? A few lbs. I looked at these people and said look at me. A few lbs would be like tossing a few deck chairs off of the titanic. Yet to get a suitable fork and brakes you had to skip the entry level model.

 

[scott43]

Agreed. In my case I kept being pushed to a carbon frame. I asked what's the diff between carbon x model and alloy y? A few lbs. I looked at these people and said look at me. A few lbs would be like tossing a few deck chairs off of the titanic. Yet to get a suitable fork and brakes you had to skip the entry level model.

100% agree.