Texas couple sue Jackson Hole Mountain resort…

[crosscountry]

Had the victim taken enough lessons to know how to ski on one ski then she could've simply come to a stop once the binding made its hasty exit, stage left. Racers learn this skill fairly early on and it is often a life saver (sometimes literally).

It's not how to ski on one ski, it's how to quickly realize one ski had left the scene and quickly shift one's weight onto the remaining ski before the bare boot touches the ground!

Racers got tons of practice on that when they push the load on their skis round gates. For the rest of recreational skiers, how do you practice that? By setting the binding light enough so the skis keep flying off?

 

[Giotto]

take lessons throughout their skiing life.

+100. But really, how many folks take continued education driving lessens? Given that one has to drive through tough conditions at times, make good use of ABS, recognize loss of traction. The answer is: very few. The cost of lessons like auto cross, wet pad, etc is not high (ok, tires and brakes will suffer a bit).
I play tennis doubles with people who love tennis (i merely like it), but time has stood still for many of them. I can tell who hasn't had a lesson in 20 years. Arranging group lessons for buddies is not expensive.

 

[Jerez]

Cost of lessons... ouch! I just forked over nearly $800 (w/o tip or tickets or gear) for my 10 year old GD to take 3 group kid lessons at Winter Park. Probably overbooked and taught by a kid making minimum wage. This will probably be the last year we will be able to do that.

 

[Novaloafah]

Using fingers of nails to self arrest sounds a little to delicate or subtle to me. On the occasions when I have needed to self arrest, I rolled onto my stomach and punched my fists hard into the snowpack.

maybe some pain made it impossible to be clear headed, or surprise/shock hit her hard.

 

[SSSdave]

According to a person's JH trail guide, from the top of the gondola, Sundance is usually groomed, popular so, and is not below the lift. Sundog is below the Casper Bowl HS Quad where bump skiers like to show off, so one would expect moguls even at a modest 34% grade. There is a youtube snowboarder video going down that which despite the wide angle lens effect, looks similar to what such a lower gradient mogul field video would look like. Not a slope one could slide very far even if trying.

Per the Texas story link. After the binding flying off statement, the following line reads like what some lawyer that has never skied and can't analyze topo maps might write simply for legal embellishment:

"...Finally, her right ski tore off and the moguls, or bumps, of the next run stopped her 300- to 400-foot descent, the suit says."

Since the man was well down the slope, he would not have climbed back up to attend to his partner. Rather, since it was near the lift top terminal, the employee there would have been alerted by the next group off the lift that would call ski patrol. First question would be, did ski patrol actually find and recover the supposed disconnected binding piece? And if so did JH patrol and the rental shop inspect it and the ski? If the binding screws ripped out off the ski, it would be obvious looking at the ski binding holes alone. They would also be able to modestly evaluate the state of the woman's injuries that for legal reasons a resort will always have patrol do so carefully. Unfortunately beyond this amusing for this web audience mystery speculation, due to the way lawyers work and think, none of this is will become public information until they are in front of a judge. And more likely if the shop is somewhat to blame, it would be obvious and they will quietly settle out of court so none of us will ever really know.

 

[dovski]

Little bit off topic here but very few sports are as enjoyable at any ability level as much as skiing. Some skiers are terminal intermediates who have no desire to get off blue runs but just enjoy being on the mountain and outdoors.

Also, ever hear of après-Tennis or après-Golf? Didn't think so. Let's not leave the party people out of skiing's appeal. Whistler's popularity isn't just the skiing, it is the shopping, dinning, entertainment in the Village that attracts skiers. Not all of those folks want to improve or even get out and ski all that much.

You’re right it is not like they serve drinks on the golf course while you’re golfing or have a “19th Hole” lol Let’s be very honest here I am not sure you can actually enjoy golf sober … at least I can’t lol in fact I personally perform best at the 19th hole.

And it is not like they have Tennis clubs that serve drinks etc. lol yup skiing must be the only sport with an “après” social aspect lol

Now that said I personally prefer après ski drinks in the hot tub or a great slope side bar over “country club socials” any day of the week. And for the record I am do not golf or play tennis… but I have gone for drinks at a Golf Club lol

 

[fatbob]

Racers may be able to ski on with an unexpected ski ejection but that's after 100s of hours of one footed drills, the same drills that sensible skiers avoid because they don't want to be injured while trying to do a circus trick. The chances that a recreational or holiday skier would drill specifically for the purposes of safety in the event of an equipment failure is obviously satire.

 

[KevinF]

I'm taking an entirely different angle here:

Had the victim taken enough lessons to know how to ski on one ski then she could've simply come to a stop once the binding made its hasty exit, stage left. Racers learn this skill fairly early on and it is often a life saver (sometimes literally).

I've taken (more than) my share of lessons. I can do a reasonable job of holding the inside ski off the ground throughout a turn.

My chances of pulling safely to a stop if my inside ski came off are slim, but I might be able to pull it off.

If the outside ski blew off during a turn, there would be a zero percent chance of staying upright

 

[tch]

Had the victim taken enough lessons to know how to ski on one ski then she could've simply come to a stop once the binding made its hasty exit, stage left. Racers learn this skill fairly early on and it is often a life saver (sometimes literally).

Yes, I'm harping on ski technique here. It's one of those things that folks in the EU do a lot more than folks in North America: take lessons throughout their skiing life. I know, I know - personal liberty and all that jazz. But I don't see why people wouldn't want to keep improving their skills in a sport where the laws of physics are constantly in play.

Already mentioned, but just to clarify:
A 3-hour group (only beginner or intermediate offered) at PCMR is $250 + ski ticket.
A 3-hour private (probably necessary if you are above intermediate and esp if you want to practice exotic skills like one-footed skiing) is $930 + ski ticket.
A full-day is $1250 + ski ticket.

RR, I know you are a concerned and competent coach...but $1,000/day to improve is just not something a whole lot of skiers are going to afford or do. The model has to change if we think technique improvement needs to happen on a large scale.

 

[Mike Thomas]

Cost of lessons... ouch! I just forked over nearly $800 (w/o tip or tickets or gear) for my 10 year old GD to take 3 group kid lessons at Winter Park.

I read this as "10 year old Great Dane" ... which seems kind of old to teach new tricks to? I would love to see some video. Best kids group lesson EVER!

 

[mdf]

I've taken (more than) my share of lessons. I can do a reasonable job of holding the inside ski off the ground throughout a turn.

My chances of pulling safely to a stop if my inside ski came off are slim, but I might be able to pull it off.

If the outside ski blew off during a turn, there would be a zero percent chance of staying upright

A have stayed upright after losing one ski to a rock. But then I purposely sat down quickly to minimize the climb back to the thrown shoe. But to Kevin's point, I doubt I had much weight on the lost ski and I was near transition, so going fairly straight. An equipment failure at max load would be a different story.

Another potential villein here: the injured party's insurance company. Every time I've been injured, my health insurance has repeatedly asked me to name someone they could sue.

 

[skix]

I'm taking an entirely different angle here:

Had the victim taken enough lessons to know how to ski on one ski then she could've simply come to a stop once the binding made its hasty exit, stage left. Racers learn this skill fairly early on and it is often a life saver (sometimes literally).

I don't think many people even at racer skill level are going to avoid a crash when a binding fails at speed. You reminded me though of my crash aftermath. After unsuccessfully trying to get the binding back on the track I had one good ski. A patroller showed up to escort me down to the lift and suggested I try skiing on one foot while she carried my bad ski. I tried but kept falling and those falls hurt too. Couldn't do it so we just walked the rest of the way. I'd practiced self-arresting but at the time was just a heel pusher without enough skill to ski one footed. Need more practice with one footing now actually.

 

[markojp]

Play our cards right, and this thread should get us into next fall!

 

[clong83]

I have had a demo binding come apart, which is why I would never put one on any of my skis. It wasn't on a jump or rollover just arching a turn at speed. Not going to debate this point - you do you and I will do me. It wasn't malicious, however my shoulder was toast for the good part of a year. It was on a similar type run (Sundog is off Casper @ JHMR), mine was on Nabob at DV.

Sometimes folks don't want to travel with their gear, doesn't mean that they can't ski. Also, I can see if the heel/toe piece came off the track it went 10-15 feet, maybe not up in the air, but in the air.

Might make sense to wait until its sorted before passing judgement - this is why EVERYONE has (or should have) insurance, resort, rental shop, skiers.

All of this^

I recently took a business trip, and had a surprise day where our agenda got dropped, so I took off and went skiing. I rented gear. Even though I own plenty of skis myself, I had not traveled with them. I also rented/demoed some powder skis recently when I did a cat skiing trip. There are legit reasons to sometimes rent gear even if you are plenty experienced.

Sounds vaguely like the binding actually came off the ski/demo track. She may have been going fast, but I don't see why that matters much. I go fast sometimes, too, and I expect my bindings to not fly apart.

Is the shop liable? I dunno. Maybe, maybe not. Depends on if they knew or should have known that the binding had problems. If they had properly maintained it, inspected it periodically, etc, they are probably in the clear. If not, well... that could be a legit case.

But yeah, sometimes shit just breaks without warning.

 

[Vinnie]

As the OP I’m amazed this thread go so much reaction. In summary lots of speculation and anecdotes. Due to the sloppy journalism we’re all still guessing on what was meant by ’the binding blew off the ski’ but the binding coming off the ski/demo track makes the most sense to me.

 

[skix]

Play our cards right, and this thread should get us into next fall!

I can help with that ... If you have a binding release it's important to keep good dorsiflexion with your remaining ski and make sure to do retraction when toppling into the new turn.

 

[givethepigeye]

This is one of the reasons that article got me thinking, having just skied Jackson a few weeks ago, I was imagining the scenario as described.

I could be wrong, but I thought that to ski SunDog, you'd need to go up the Sweetwater gondola then take the Casper lift. Maybe Sundog goes down further than I recall.

At no point did I pass judgement on the woman or her injuries.
For some reason when I read about her fingernails getting ripped of inside her gloves, it stuck in my head, and I winced a bit.

Perhaps because I've had salon nails in the past and know what it feels like to have one rip off, and it took a lot of force. (and it effing hurt)

It’s the run right to the left and under Casper as you ride up. You actually can get to it from Teton Lift > Wide Open> Amphitheater Traverse (that starts @ Wide Open headed toward lookers left of mountain - so hardly any skiers, except those that came off Teton). You won’t be hauling the mail at the top of Sundog and people getting off Casper milling about, but aren’t starting from a standstill. On Sundog the skiers left gets bumped up under the chair (and it falls away into trees separating it from Sleeping Indian) the rest is usually buffed. That route is our usual AM warm-up (Teewinot>AV>Teton, then Casper or Thunder TBD) while people are in line for Gondi, we are headed to Thunder, but might do a lap on Casper chair.

i have skied scary fast there on early AM, maybe not 3 turns in but probably six or eight. If I ate it, would slide a bit.

 

[Mister Tea]

Seems rather clear from the article, the binding "flew off"!

But was the binding still attached to the ski when it "flew off"?

The normal way to read it is no, but here we have a reporter relying on the carefully worded complaint filed by the plaintiff's lawyer. Sometimes you have to read these things with your literalism hat firmly in place.

 

[pais alto]

Is there anything enough lessons won’t help?

 

[DanoT]

Is there anything enough lessons won’t help?

My knees...from so much vertical, so many turns.