The Never-Ending Zipfit Discussion

[Noodler]

How do the Corsas compare to the liners that came with your plug?
Maybe last-length wise Zipfit wanted it to be "consistent" that you can always choose your ZFs in the same MP your boots are (which their quiz always suggests)?
For example my 285 Podium RD stock liners are exactly 10mm shorter than my 23/24 285 WCSW. Were the Corsas the same that would obviously cause problems and Zipfit would have to clearly communicate that you need to downsize Corsas going into (some? all?) plugs.

Did you buy it new, came from Zipfit filled that way? A guy who skies the same Podium i do said he went Corsa (with stock amount of cork) because it was "taking up more space" and the stock was "a bit too thin" for him. I was wondering how that could be, but i guess it makes sense with that amount of cork in the ankle bladders...


I had the same concern, but after changing the cord to 2.5mm dyneema (a bit thicker and way less friction) i am now confident nothing bad will happen to the eyelet loops.

The 26.5 Corsa is exactly the same length as the stock 25.5 Nordica race liner. As I noted, the Corsa is a "short-lasted liner", this means that it is shorter than marked.

The liners were purchased used. The guys I bought them from had made these changes to the OMFit in the bladders.

 

[arildGFB]

The 26.5 Corsa is exactly the same length as the stock 25.5 Nordica race liner. As I noted, the Corsa is a "short-lasted liner", this means that it is shorter than marked.

The liners were purchased used. The guys I bought them from had made these changes to the OMFit in the bladders.

Since you have both on your hands, can you give us a comparison between the stock Nordica liner and the Corsa?

Cheers.

 

[Landez]

@Landez
From those pictures it looks like if you were to hold flat the upward bend Gara toebox the difference in sole length is max 1-2mm?
But at the same time the protruding part of the heel is pure compressible foam on the Salomon while quite rigid on the ZF (meaning Salomon can slide back in the shell few mm by compression, ZF can't).
I'd be highly surprised if that minimal length difference is whats causing your issue.
If there is a difference in tounge volume though (like Noodler wrote), the ZF is not pushing your foot down/back as much, that would make sense to cause sliding.
The feeling that heel hold is good whilst sliding occurs maybe just the cork on the sides that has already molded nicely to your ankles, "grabbing" them?

I don't have the broken in Salomon liners anymore, the unused pair are very close in length but would stretch a bit I suppose. And that is probably going to be more than 2mm. The Gara is both thinner and less voluminous in the forefoot which I have nothing against really, if I could just find a way to make the liner lock lengthwise a little better. This is not a huge problem, it's mostly just out of interest I'm putting thought into it.

I can get up on the noses of my skis without the heels lifting at all and I don't think it's possible to add more cork to the tongues without blocking off the veins on top of my feet just standing in the boots unbuckled. One shell size down is not what I'm looking for, I have lost both toenails multiple times in 27,5 boots that had the big toe ground out! Not to mention the countless width punches that never seemed to be enough. Before getting Zips I even needed my first pair of 28,5 Shifts punched widthwise a few times to ski without numbness/pain.

I haven't touched the ankle bladders but they seem to give enough "concrete like" support, great control carving on hardpack for example. I was contemplating adding to the front side pouch but when looking inside the shell it widens forward from there so it might not make a difference. I think I'll try a some cork in the rear pouch to maybe make it fill the hollowed out space in the shell down low, make the liner grip better and/or add a little volume in length.

 

[BeiJiHu]

I can get up on the noses of my skis without the heels lifting at all and I don't think it's possible to add more cork to the tongues without blocking off the veins on top of my feet just standing in the boots unbuckled. One shell size down is not what I'm looking for, I have lost both toenails multiple times in 27,5 boots that had the big toe ground out! Not to mention the countless width punches that never seemed to be enough. Before getting Zips I even needed my first pair of 28,5 Shifts punched widthwise a few times to ski without numbness/pain.

I feel you: purely by length measurement it suggests i could be in a 27,5, though when it comes to forefoot width or midfoot volume/instep height i fit much better in a shell 2-4sizes larger. Why then go 27,5? Just so the bootfitting process takes 5 instead of 3.5 hours (like my last 28,5 shell did)?
An idea regarding your sliding issue: maybe don't actually cork-fill the tounges right away, just put a thick wintersock / a 4mm strip of foam / etc over the inside of the tounge and carefully lace your liners on top. If you still feel sliding, look somewhere else for the cause, but if that cures it, you know what to do.

 

[Doublegreen]

Landez-
What do your achilles feel like? Could you remove or move some OMfit there and get your heel further back? Then add more to the tongue or try a foam pad right above where your ankle flexes.

 

[arildGFB]

Here's the thing: Noodler is a gold mine for anything zipfit related. Sometimes the bone-plastic relationship isn't working out, so we need buttloads of cork. Nothing wrong with that. I'll be the first in line saying I probably got the wrong shell to begin with. Maybe even the wrong liners.

I've now got the right amount of omfit to make my Corsas work well with my WCRs. Great! They help me drive my skis like bats out of hell. Would be better and cheaper with the right shells to begin with, but here we are.

Zipfits are liners, they're not bootfitting magic. They won't help you with a shell that's too low in volume, but they will help, but not fix completely, a wrong shell fit.

If you need to add tons of cork to your tongue to keep your heels down, chances are that you're in a too high of a volume instep shell. No need to get pissy about it. My Corsa tongues have about four tubes of cork in them. Guess who's been lusting after Dobermann 5s and Redster CS shells? Me! With the buttloads of cork I've invested in, I'm going to stick to the WCRs. After a season of tinkering, five oven molds, and adding/subtracting tubes of cork, they work for me, but I know I'm my heart and mind there are better shells out there for me.

No need to get defensive, no need to shoot the messenger.

 

[David]

My Corsa tongues have about four tubes of cork in them.

You could fit 4 tubes in each tounge? My shop added 1 to each and I was afraid they were overloading them.

 

[BullMcCabe]

If it’s the Masterfit Quickbed

They stick to other liners as well, sometimes it is hell to pull em out of liners at the shop and I’m forced to heat things up to remove em

The Masterfit Instaprint+ Does not do this at least in my experience

It’s the instaprint+. Will reheat & see if I can remove without damage to ZF. If not, I’ll just leave in. Thanks mych!

 

[Yarecki]

The 26.5 Corsa is exactly the same length as the stock 25.5 Nordica race liner. As I noted, the Corsa is a "short-lasted liner", this means that it is shorter than marked.

The liners were purchased used. The guys I bought them from had made these changes to the OMFit in the bladders.

I have last year’s Corsa, this year’s Sidewinder and this year’s Fischer RC4 Pro LV liners (all 27.5). They’re all the same length down to a millimeter. I’ll post pics when I have a moment.

 

[Doublegreen]

You could fit 4 tubes in each tounge? My shop added 1 to each and I was afraid they were overloading them.

There’s room in there. My ankles/shin/calves are very different. 3-4 in one tongue liner and none in the other, actually has to remove some.

 

[salvatore]

Here's the thing: Noodler is a gold mine for anything zipfit related. Sometimes the bone-plastic relationship isn't working out, so we need buttloads of cork. Nothing wrong with that. I'll be the first in line saying I probably got the wrong shell to begin with. Maybe even the wrong liners.

I've now got the right amount of omfit to make my Corsas work well with my WCRs. Great! They help me drive my skis like bats out of hell. Would be better and cheaper with the right shells to begin with, but here we are.

Zipfits are liners, they're not bootfitting magic. They won't help you with a shell that's too low in volume, but they will help, but not fix completely, a wrong shell fit.

If you need to add tons of cork to your tongue to keep your heels down, chances are that you're in a too high of a volume instep shell. No need to get pissy about it. My Corsa tongues have about four tubes of cork in them. Guess who's been lusting after Dobermann 5s and Redster CS shells? Me! With the buttloads of cork I've invested in, I'm going to stick to the WCRs. After a season of tinkering, five oven molds, and adding/subtracting tubes of cork, they work for me, but I know I'm my heart and mind there are better shells out there for me.

No need to get defensive, no need to shoot the messenger.

I'm in the same situation as you, Arild. Head WCR 140 with Corsa liners, lots & lots of cork. Left boot is perfect, the right could probably use a bit more OMFit. In hindsight, yeah, I've spent too much money to get this to work. But have I? The performance is superb yet I can wear them all day without complaint.

I too am wondering about the Dobermans and the CS130. I know I could move the Corsas straight over, but the shells would need some work. That's not cheap. If I see one of those on sale, however...

 

[Large]

This thread has gotta have at least 75% of all ZipFit info that has ever been produced on the internet. And Noodler has produced most of it.

 

[Noodler]

Well, he's given a lot of good info. And he's surely correct for 50% or 80% or even 90% of people.

But he doesn't seem to recognize that that means that 10% or 20% or even 50% have different desires or goals than he does. Or just don't care about eking out performance as he does.

And this:

I'd be embarrassed to write something like that about a domain in which I have expertise.

My apologies. I certainly can get heavy handed in the manner in which I dole out advice. That doesn't fly with my wife and so it shouldn't as well with this community. Phil often reminds me that things aren't always black and white when it comes to ski equipment and dialing in fit and performance.

So I'll probably be around for another few weeks and then it will be end of the season and time for my hip replacement surgery. Waiting for this damn surgery certainly has me grouchy at times. I'll try my best not to take it out on the Internet.

 

[James]

Sometimes people do what they’re gonna do. I have family who raced Ncaa for four years. He’d never owned a non race ski, and the last many years were usually two pairs of plug boots. He now won’t buy a boot that needs any work. Went and tried on a bunch and picked one. He may be lucky in that regard, but clearly he’s lost his mind. He also hasn’t waxed skis in a year and it used to be after every single time on snow sharpen and wax.
Also in this was a move to Utah from the East Coast. I blame it on Alta. Once you spend enough time up there you’re done.

 

[Scruffy]

And this:

Noodler said:
There's a difference between "people who ski" and being a "skier"

I'd be embarrassed to write something like that about a domain in which I have expertise.

You have to understand the context in which that comment was made. The comment ( paraphrasing here ) "there are skiers, and then there are people who ski" has been often made here by many a folk, including our fearless leader, and it's not meant to disparage the "people who ski" segment of the population. It's to put into perspective that sometimes we here focus on the fanatics who ski many days a season, and obsess over gear and wringing the last umpteenth percent of performance out of it, but the fact of the matter is most people only ski 5-10 days a year, and don't obsess about their gear.
So, in that context, and I'm not going to try and read @Noodler 's mind, but I'm pretty sure he didn't think he'd have anything to be embarrassed about by writing it.

Now, having said all that--the fact of the matter is we have a lot of new folks coming on board as of late, and they are not privy to the years of backstory, and the vernacular, here from Epic->Pugski-Skitalk, so perhaps that little piece of colloquialism should be retired, as it can be taken offensively.

 

[Yarecki]

On a lighter note, some ZipFit porn. More to come…

 

[jt10000]

fanatics

obsess

Noted.

 

[ARL67]

@Noodler hope the hip replacement goes well .
Tough call on what to sacrifice with the surgery timing -> skip the ski season or skip the golf season.

As our season is near over, I'm about to start trying to fit my Gara LV Sidewinders, which I've had here for a month+. Having read this thread daily I will surely keep in mind if I think I actually need to drop down from a 27.5 to a 26.5, as I want to get the best out of my ZFs. My son and I have identical boots in 27.5 and 26.5 so I can also try his shell fit and decide accordingly if I need to abandon ship on my 27.5.
This thread is surely the best repository on ZF info anywhere, many thanks .

 

[Doublegreen]

What is Fischer doing with LV model with Zipfit liner? The 29.5 is a 104 last and the 28.5 is a 102 last. I know the last and mondo size get stepped up or down, but how can I get into a 96-98 last without downsizing 2 sizes, which I don’t want to do. The Head Raptor WCR 120 is a 96 last boot in 26.5 and then goes to 98 in 27.5 but the table is incomplete on their website, I can only assume the 28.5 or 29.5 is bigger yet?

 

[Yarecki]

What is Fischer doing with LV model with Zipfit liner? The 29.5 is a 104 last and the 28.5 is a 102 last. I know the last and mondo size get stepped up or down, but how can I get into a 96-98 last without downsizing 2 sizes, which I don’t want to do. The Head Raptor WCR 120 is a 96 last boot in 26.5 and then goes to 98 in 27.5 but the table is incomplete on their website, I can only assume the 28.5 or 29.5 is bigger yet?

Don’t know about other brands, but Head and Fischer add 2mm to last width for every mondo size increase. If you want narrow last with your size, I think your only option is to look at their plug boots, which start at ~93mm for a reference 26.5 size…