Mid-Atlantic The Neverending Timberline, WV: Info, Weather, and Stoke

[Johnfmh]

When is the next deadline/court date/hearing/etc.? I seem to recall that something is supposed to happen on 18 October?

 

[Bananana]

I think the hearing on whether to convert the case from Chapter 11 to Chapter 7 bankruptcy is on October 16th 12:30pm ET. Was rescheduled / continued from October 3rd.

 

[Squaremouth]

I think the hearing on whether to convert the case from Chapter 11 to Chapter 7 bankruptcy is on October 16th 12:30pm ET. Was rescheduled / continued from October 3rd.

It's hard to convince a judge to convert to Chapter 7 from 11 in any situation. This case here is more complicated than your average bankruptsy, we have multiple companies and complicated issues. Also, this hearing is in a federal court in Pennsylvania, which is the hometown of the Herz's, It's not in WV. And they have hired high powered attornies. I don't expect anything interesting to happen. Either a ruling against Chapter 7 or a continuation. This situation is going to take a long time. Order up a truck of scotch, a case or two is not going to last long. If we were gambling I'd lay 10:1 odds on nothing interesting happening. Just a continuance or a denial.

 

[jimmy]

Lots of facts posted in the last ten pages of this. As stated a month ago the debtor has consolidated all four cases. IIRC it was the trustee that petitioned for the conversion. They have no income, their reorganization plan is what? To sell snowmaking equipment so they can pay the trustee? Dr. Reichle is under indictment for opioid trafficking. Herz and Herz have effectively abandoned the property. Explain why the US Bankruptcy Court would look the other way just because these people are from Philadelphia?

 

[Squaremouth]

Lots of facts posted in the last ten pages of this. As stated a month ago the debtor has consolidated all four cases. IIRC it was the trustee that petitioned for the conversion. They have no income, their reorganization plan is what? To sell snowmaking equipment so they can pay the trustee? Dr. Reichle is under indictment for opioid trafficking. Herz and Herz have effectively abandoned the property. Explain why the US Bankruptcy Court would look the other way just because these people are from Philadelphia?

I didn’t say they were going to look the other way. WTF???? I know all about the opioid case. Does he still own any part of the ski resort? As far as I can recall he got out a long time ago so he wouldn’t be part of this case. Please correct me if he still owns the resort.

PS. Of course the cases are consolidated. That’s standard it doesn’t make it less complicated. Geez don’t blow a gasket. It’s probably going to be a continuation. WTF. PSS: Even if they rule against conversion to Chapter 7 now, they can do it later. So that’s about the same thing as the other.

 

[Johnfmh]

@Squaremouth, the creditors group is driving the process at this point. A delay will only occur if the major creditors see some advantage to that approach. Just out of curiosity, what is your relationship to the resort? Skier, local, property owner, etc.?

 

[Dr. Bighair]

tryouts are over....all left field positions have been filled

 

[Squaremouth]

@Squaremouth, the creditors group is driving the process at this point. A delay will only occur if the major creditors see some advantage to that approach. Just out of curiosity, what is your relationship to the resort? Skier, local, property owner, etc.?

The creditors always drive the bankruptcy. Of course they don’t want any delays. They want their money now. But there are two parties here, the other side are the Herz’s. They have their foot on the brakes and they can brake this train wreck for a long time if they want.

 

[jimmy]

The creditors always drive the bankruptcy. Of course they don’t want any delays. They want their money now. But there are two parties here, the other side are the Herz’s. They have their foot on the brakes and they can brake this train wreck for a long time if they want.

Sorry I offended you with my questions but I am curious by nature and you seem to know way more about this stuff than I do. I thought it took money to re-organize a bankrupt corporation. They (Tline) are currently burning furniture to keep the house warm and they are about out of furniture. Neither the US Trustee or those High Powered Attorneys work for free so I just wonder how this works, the debtor putting their foot on the brakes for a long time, in effect keeping the case a Chapter 11?

 

[Squaremouth]

SpongeFRED Squaremouth still didn't answer Johns Question...

. Timberline? Have you been up there? It’s the best views and the best skiing.

Sorry I offended you with my questions but I am curious by nature and you seem to know way more about this stuff than I do. I thought it took money to re-organize a bankrupt corporation. They (Tline) are currently burning furniture to keep the house warm and they are about out of furniture. Neither the US Trustee or those High Powered Attorneys work for free so I just wonder how this works, the debtor putting their foot on the brakes for a long time, in effect keeping the case a Chapter 11?

The only thing that is offensvie is when people make up crap and post it. That hurts Timberline resale opportunities. The emotions are running high, I get it. Yeah I know the whole story, who doesn't? It's all out there for public consumption, all the dirty laundry. The bankrupsty lawyers have seen it, potential buyers have seen it, and probably the judge presiding has read it.

What is keeping this in Chapter 11? Who knows but those Herz lawyers are first class. They could have walked away from the Chapter 7 petition. I don't know what is going on, no one does. This thing could go in many directions.

 

[Johnfmh]

@Squaremouth, why do you care so much about the resale value of the resort? Wouldn’t it be best for everyone if the resort is sold at the lowest dollar amount so that the new owner can invest maximum capital into much needed infrastructure improvements—like new lifts and improved snowmaking.

 

[Bananana]

@Squaremouth, why do you care so much about the resale value of the resort? Wouldn’t it be best for everyone if the resort is sold at the lowest dollar amount so that the new owner can invest maximum capital into much needed infrastructure improvements—like new lifts and improved snowmaking.

I'd probably actually rather see a higher sale price for the resort. Going concern businesses are generally worth more than the than pure asset sales. The low purchase price could indicate that the buyer isn't assigning much value at all to the intangibles / goodwill and is basically buying at a liquidation value.

Perhaps more importantly, a higher purchase price would indicate that the buyer has more of their own funds invested and would be more motivated to start generating profits quickly. At only $2.5m, a potion of which will likely be debt funded, a well capitalized buyer can sit on the investment without much pain at all. I would have thought the adjacent 220 acres alone would have been worth more than $2.5m.

 

[Dr. Bighair]

This case here is more complicated than your average bankruptsy, we have multiple companies and complicated issues.

So how many companies do ya'll have involved in the bankruptcy?

 

[mmcshane]

On Friday, creditors committee filed motion asking for court to appoint Chapter 11 trustee and be done with all this nonsense. Creditors committee had been agreeing to process so far, but predictably, debtors have recently stopped playing ball- yes, the stalking horse bidder (Timberline Land Holding Co.) signed the letter of intent, but debtors, go figure, have not as of this date. So committee clearly has had enough. And the only reason the govt has agreed to the continuances so far of Chapter 11 to 7 is because the committee has said, wait, we think debtors are acting in good faith + they have been abiding by the sale protocol. That is true no more. Appointing a trustee in the Chapter 11 case would serve essentially the same purposes as converting to Chapter 7- the appointed trustee gets to approve of the terms of sale and they are the ones negotiating with the buyer, NOT the debtors. They filed it as an emergency motion- my guess is that the motion will be heard with the other ones on the 16th.

 

[Kemperski]

So how many companies do ya'll have involved in the bankruptcy?

Dr. Bighair, I think you have nailed it

 

[Squaremouth]

I didn’t say resale value. I said resale OPPORTUNITIES. There’s a huge difference. Check my post again. WTF.

 

[Kemperski]

Just a quick note to the positive, it may seem surprising that a national site like Pugski would have a nearly 60 page thread about the future of a West Virginia mountain boasting an awesome 1000 feet of vertical... but..

It is in a uniquely beautiful valley, in a good snow year it draws 200 inches plus. It has a well cut trail system with steep wides and narrow trails that twist like miniatures of classic NE runs. And Timberline has the best glades and tree runs anywhere south of NY, that despite the short term carnage that the previous (thank god they are GONE) owners inflicted on those woods by ill conceived quick cash timber operations, leaving the debris to choke out some spectacular tree runs. Shoot, I intended to stay positive.

I do not live in the Valley and Timberline is not my closest mountain but it's where I go if there is good snow in the southeast, mid Atlantic region. There's a reason for all this love/angst. I think good things are on the horizon, I know NO inside scoop but it is too special a place to fail, at least that's my fervent hope.

 

[Johnfmh]

On Friday, creditors committee filed motion asking for court to appoint Chapter 11 trustee and be done with all this nonsense. Creditors committee had been agreeing to process so far, but predictably, debtors have recently stopped playing ball- yes, the stalking horse bidder (Timberline Land Holding Co.) signed the letter of intent, but debtors, go figure, have not as of this date. So committee clearly has had enough. And the only reason the govt has agreed to the continuances so far of Chapter 11 to 7 is because the committee has said, wait, we think debtors are acting in good faith + they have been abiding by the sale protocol. That is true no more. Appointing a trustee in the Chapter 11 case would serve essentially the same purposes as converting to Chapter 7- the appointed trustee gets to approve of the terms of sale and they are the ones negotiating with the buyer, NOT the debtors. They filed it as an emergency motion- my guess is that the motion will be heard with the other ones on the 16th.

Read the motion and concur. The debtors clearly are not negotiating in good faith. They are stalling for time, hoping for more money when none is forthcoming. “Basta ya!” so say the creditors and we’ll see if their cry for justice will be heard on the 16th.

If the stalking horse bid is accepted, does anyone think that the resort could be opened for the 2019-2020 season, even in a limited capacity?

 

[Dr. Bighair]

Unfortunately, no. I don't think there is really any possibility to open the resort for this season. The soon to be former, white trash owners just ran it to far into the ground to salvage anything. Depending on how much planning is needed and the scope of the rebuild, I could imagine it being down for the following 20/21 season as well. If the new owners are going to really do it right, unleash the resort's potential as a true four season establishment and rebuild to modern industry standards then I wouldn't mind it being down for the next two seasons. I am thinking positive...I am hoping for a bright future for the new resort and for the current owners to be held responsible to the full extent of the law for ALL their brazen criminal activities that have damaged the local community.

 

[RodneyBD]

On Friday, creditors committee filed motion asking for court to appoint Chapter 11 trustee and be done with all this nonsense. Creditors committee had been agreeing to process so far, but predictably, debtors have recently stopped playing ball- yes, the stalking horse bidder (Timberline Land Holding Co.) signed the letter of intent, but debtors, go figure, have not as of this date. So committee clearly has had enough. And the only reason the govt has agreed to the continuances so far of Chapter 11 to 7 is because the committee has said, wait, we think debtors are acting in good faith + they have been abiding by the sale protocol. That is true no more. Appointing a trustee in the Chapter 11 case would serve essentially the same purposes as converting to Chapter 7- the appointed trustee gets to approve of the terms of sale and they are the ones negotiating with the buyer, NOT the debtors. They filed it as an emergency motion- my guess is that the motion will be heard with the other ones on the 16th.

Thanks for the motion and update. This is like the like Black Knight scene in Monty Python. The Herz's just won't quit. The good news is Judge Fitzsimon is a fair but no BS judge. She will keep their feet to the fire. Can someone clarify - if a trustee is appointed and manages the asset sale, there will still be a final call auction, correct?