Unicorn Search: mid-sized 4WD/AWD New England vehicle with decent gas mileage

[Ogg]

You guys do know that Toyota has been Fuji's major tech exchange/sharing partner for, like, several decades now?

Yeah, all the JDM manufacturers have been sharing parts for as long as I've been driving. The same could be said for US brands(ie: 10 speed AT in current GM and Ford vehicles.)

 

[Tom K.]

Yeah, dont pay over MSRP. Ever. No need. Dealers are on their last days of doing that. The car market is going down fast.

QFT. Anybody shopping for a new vehicle would be well advised to wait just a wee bit longer, if possible.

Agreed. The Toyota dealer I was working with on this, and that I have serviced with quite a bit over the years, lost a customer. I cannot see returning to that location if/when I decide to go Toyota again.

I was talking to my local small-ish town Ford dealer the other day when I was in for an oil change. He said they have stuck as MSRP throughout because "we're doing fine there, and we don't want everybody to hate us next time around".

Decent approach, IMO.

 

[Rudi Riet]

I was talking to my local small-ish town Ford dealer the other day when I was in for an oil change. He said they have stuck as MSRP throughout because "we're doing fine there, and we don't want everybody to hate us next time around".

Decent approach, IMO.

As I might've said upthread, I had multiple Subaru dealers competing for my business when looking for my new Crosstrek and not a single one did anything over MSRP. Note that they also didn't dip below MSRP - it was WYSIWYG in terms of pricing, simple as that.

Where they were able to differentiate themselves was with dealer-provided options: routine service, add-ons to the warranty, etc.

And in the end I went with the dealer that was easiest and safest for me to get to by bike.

 

[dovski]

FYI all we now have our Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe. We are almost a month in that the first tank of gas is still full because we charge every night at minimum and always get 26 miles EV range. Current MPG is reading as about 50 but that is because Jeep estimates the cost of electricity to charge the vehicle and those estimates are a little high so actual MPG is much much better

There is also customer cash from Jeep and a $7500 tax credit on these

 

[Tony]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Toyota Is Planning Price Hikes, Still Deciding How High to Go​

Article also includes:
"Another method of raising prices that a lot of automakers, including Toyota, have been using recently is to drop base models, effectively raising the price of entry. Just last month, the company dropped the base L sedan from its Corolla lineup, resulting in an $1125 higher starting price . Pricing for the hatchback Corolla jumped by $1800 on the SE, and $2315 on the XSE—although Toyota also cut the starting price of the Corolla hybrid by $1250."

 

[lisamamot]

QFT. Anybody shopping for a new vehicle would be well advised to wait just a wee bit longer, if possible.

Sadly, that is what I was told last winter - I waited - it didn't get better, but perhaps that is because I was still hopeful that I would be able to get my #1 choice vehicle at what I consider a fair price. I decided to be flexible....on vehicle, not price.

The update email from my Subaru guy said my Outback came into port on 11/4...soon I will be able to check every box below, lol. Although I don't live in VT anymore, I will qualify to be a Vermont Mom

 

[dovski]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Toyota Is Planning Price Hikes, Still Deciding How High to Go​

Article also includes:
"Another method of raising prices that a lot of automakers, including Toyota, have been using recently is to drop base models, effectively raising the price of entry. Just last month, the company dropped the base L sedan from its Corolla lineup, resulting in an $1125 higher starting price . Pricing for the hatchback Corolla jumped by $1800 on the SE, and $2315 on the XSE—although Toyota also cut the starting price of the Corolla hybrid by $1250."

So just and FYI a lot of dealerships are having customers cancel orders right now. The end result is that inventory is becoming available for new cars. With interest rates climbing my local Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler dealership salesperson who I bought my Jeep from confided in me that their sales have tanked. Suddenly more cars are selling for MSRP and manufacturers are starting to offer customer cash and rebates again. On the flip side prices are going up, so expect to pay more 3-6 months from now that you pay today for a new car. Some dealerships are still trying to charge market adjustments, but don't be fooled into paying those and as most dealerships will sell you the care at or even slightly below MSRP.

 

[Rudi Riet]

"Another method of raising prices that a lot of automakers, including Toyota, have been using recently is to drop base models, effectively raising the price of entry. Just last month, the company dropped the base L sedan from its Corolla lineup, resulting in an $1125 higher starting price . Pricing for the hatchback Corolla jumped by $1800 on the SE, and $2315 on the XSE—although Toyota also cut the starting price of the Corolla hybrid by $1250."

Dropping base models is just a jerk maneuver by Toyota and the other automakers who do it. But they're also taking advantage of the perception that smaller and more basic cars won't sell in this country. And as long as petrol is de facto subsidized to be as cheap as it is relative to many of the U.S.'s peers that will continue to be the case.

But there's a fragile floor to this in terms of market tolerance. Sometimes all people need - and all they can really afford - is a basic car. And when those go away and the quality used cars also disappear...

 

[Ogg]

Dropping base models is just a jerk maneuver by Toyota and the other automakers who do it. But they're also taking advantage of the perception that smaller and more basic cars won't sell in this country. And as long as petrol is de facto subsidized to be as cheap as it is relative to many of the U.S.'s peers that will continue to be the case.

But there's a fragile floor to this in terms of market tolerance. Sometimes all people need - and all they can really afford - is a basic car. And when those go away and the quality used cars also disappear...

Base models are often loss leaders for the dealers so it kind of makes sense that they would be dropped. Most people want at least some of the bells and whistles so will opt for the next model up. You are not the typical buyer they are aiming at. You want basic and plan on keeping your vehicle for a long time. IOW, you're not profitable.

 

[wooglin]

Sadly, that is what I was told last winter - I waited - it didn't get better, but perhaps that is because I was still hopeful that I would be able to get my #1 choice vehicle at what I consider a fair price. I decided to be flexible....on vehicle, not price.

The update email from my Subaru guy said my Outback came into port on 11/4...soon I will be able to check every box below, lol. Although I don't live in VT anymore, I will qualify to be a Vermont Mom

You have a co-op number?

 

[lisamamot]

You have a co-op number?

I do! A couple years ago I joined the co-op near me in Maine...look at me go!

 

[cantunamunch]

Truth - in both ski duds and bike kit...

You ever ride the PA route 16 right of way over Mercerburg- ways?

 

[Rudi Riet]

You ever ride the PA route 16 right of way over Mercerburg- ways?

Not really - a couple times but it's a schlep to get out there.

 

[tball]

Don't think this has been posted yet:

Toyota Is Planning Price Hikes, Still Deciding How High to Go​

Article also includes:
"Another method of raising prices that a lot of automakers, including Toyota, have been using recently is to drop base models, effectively raising the price of entry. Just last month, the company dropped the base L sedan from its Corolla lineup, resulting in an $1125 higher starting price . Pricing for the hatchback Corolla jumped by $1800 on the SE, and $2315 on the XSE—although Toyota also cut the starting price of the Corolla hybrid by $1250."

Even worse, automakers have eliminated the least expensive models. Toyota no longer makes the Yaris, and same with Honda cutting the Fit.

Unfortunately, it makes sense from a business perspective. Since they only have so many chips to go around, they will make a lot more money selling a Lexus instead of a Yaris.

 

[Philpug]

If I didn't have to buy new now, I would suggest not. I would be looking used and be very open to finding the best example and maybe willing to travel. Granted you might have to give up some technologies like park assist and Apple Play but you are still going to get a ton of reliablity. I woul aslo look to the brands and models that might not be as popular and in demand ie Infiniti, Nissan, Mitsubishi and even Acura. I'd also look at sites like Cars and Bids or Bring a Trailer where there is a level of vetting of the cars/trucks listed.

 

[Rudi Riet]

The used market is finally starting to soften a bit, which is a good thing. Prices are slowly coming down and there are a lot of great cars out there. And buying used you get a cars that's had its shakedown.

The brands Phil mentions are great bang-for-the-buck right now - especially Infiniti/Nissan and Mitsubishi. If any of these cars had issues they've been attended to over time.

And who needs park assist, anyway? That's a basic Driving 101 skill: parallel parking. I was taught in a 1986 Chevy Suburban, the rationale being that if I could parallel park a land whale like a Suburban I could park anything. And I've since honed my skills in full-size panel vans and panel trucks that only had wing mirrors. It's a great skill to have, for sure.

CarPlay/Android Auto? Those are nice creature comforts to have and are easily added to even older models.

 

[nay]

I will also point out that your premium has octane numbers not too dissimilar to us lowlanders' regular.

Don’t need as much octane when you don’t have as much oxygen at altitude. It is still 91. The fact that it costs nearly the same is a different story, but the value here is really in the additives.

 

[tball]

Carvana is imploding with the softening of the used car market.

Carvana stock posts worst day ever as outlook darkens for used vehicle market

Shares of Carvana posted their worst day on record Friday after the company missed Wall Street's top- and bottom-line expectations for the third quarter.

www.cnbc.com

 

[nay]

Yeah, dont pay over MSRP. Ever. No need. Dealers are on their last days of doing that. The car market is going down fast.

i don’t know that this is true. I think it was Ford CEO who was recently talking about how they had learned in COVID that over producing just left the manufacturers offering huge discounts/rebates to move inventory and they they didn’t intend to move back to a model where there is a lot of inventory on a lot. The world will be mostly build to order.

In particular because of Tesla and its market value with complete vertical supply chain integration, we will continue to see the OEMs try to shift the dealer to supporting your subscription to the OEM. Elon responded to something 6 or 8 months ago to a guy who had built up a 40K personal computer by saying “I’ll sell you a better computer for that price and it comes with a car.” That’s the right way to think about it.

I’d personally just get the car you want and buy the longest possible warranty you can get. It’s will likely be the last time you do that and $50/mo here or there doesn’t even show up in a ski budget.

 

[socalgal]

If I didn't have to buy new now, I would suggest not. I would be looking used and be very open to finding the best example and maybe willing to travel. Granted you might have to give up some technologies like park assist and Apple Play but you are still going to get a ton of reliablity. I woul aslo look to the brands and models that might not be as popular and in demand ie Infiniti, Nissan, Mitsubishi and even Acura. I'd also look at sites liek Cars and Bids or Bring a Trailer where there is a level of vetting of the cars/trucks listed.

The used market is finally starting to soften a bit, which is a good thing. Prices are slowly coming down and there are a lot of great cars out there. And buying used you get a cars that's had its shakedown.

The brands Phil mentions are great bang-for-the-buck right now - especially Infiniti/Nissan and Mitsubishi. If any of these cars had issues they've been attended to over time.

These are all things we are keeping in mind as our Subie's mileage creeps up, 167k+ right now. We are starting to keep a running thread of various makes/models as possibilities.