Unicorn Search: mid-sized 4WD/AWD New England vehicle with decent gas mileage

[nay]

Just pulled up the report to look at the details. Overall predicted reliability 1/5.

Below average:

• Transmission (minor and major)
• Climate system
• Suspension
• Brakes
• Body integrity
• Power equipment
• Electronics

View attachment 142877

They had some early issues with the CVT transmission on the Ascent. I did some research and couldn’t find what the other issue(s) may be, I know Car and Driver hated all the “driver assist” stuff like lane departure warning, but you can turn all that off if your don’t like it. My approach was to just buy the full coverage 8 year / 120K warranty.

Cars are so unbelievably complex now that small stuff can cost a mint. In my mind, and I’m a guy who replaces timing belts on my Toyota trucks myself, the extended warranty is just a cost of purchase. I don’t care what brand you’re buying.

As a case example, the 2015 Forester XT we bought has a rebuilt title from being totaled. I paid $12,500 for it with 63K miles in May, which is about $10K less than market (maybe more). I searched the VIN and was able to find pictures on “badvin.com”, and it was just the front bumper, both front fenders, and a fender pushed up into the hood. Zero intrusion into the engine bay, no damage to the radiator or anything else, no airbag deployment, and Progressive totaled it. Estimated repair costs? $12K. And all it needed was a new front bumper, fenders, and body shop work to the hood.

If you look at Crosstreks, there are tons of rebuilt titles out there, they are being totaled for minor damage, which is what got me looking into it in the first place. New cars are scary, they are so loaded with electronics and you can’t fix this stuff yourself.

I also think you can’t really go wrong - I’d test drive and buy what you like. I never buy new cars, they are such an awful value, except when the used car market is insane. I saw a 2015 Sequoia with 140K miles posted for $47,500 a couple days ago. Which is MSRP for the Touring top of the line Ascent.

 

[nay]

Yes, the Telluride is easily the best car in its class. Mechanically the Palisade is a close cousin and much easier to find. It's worth considering.

When I moved from New England to Colorado, my desires in the vehicle changed dramatically. Altitude fade isn't an issue there. I got a plug-in hybrid in my latest purchase here because the electric motors get even more efficient at altitude due to reduced drag. In New England, AWD is sufficient for all the driving you'll ever do. But here in the mountains of Colorado, a real 4x4 with low-range is a must-have. I spend probably 1/3 of my driving time in summer off the pavement. You have to off-road for miles to just about every trailhead or mountain lake. On-road performance was really the focus in New England. This is largely a person circumstance difference, but there I was often driving hours to ski and commuting through traffic. The automatic steering and adaptive cruise control was a life changer in traffic and long drives. Here there is practically zero traffic and I'm minutes from the mountain. Completely different priority set.

Agreed, I wouldn’t drive a crossover as my only vehicle here - it works when you have a real 4x4. Unless of course you just stick to roads and moderate trailheads.

It will be interesting to see what Subaru does in particular with it’s new “Wilderness“ editions. These things are useless for any serious off-road, but there’s are awful lot of trailhead that is well inside the performance of one of these higher clearance cars. Even Toyota is making a high clearance version of the Sienna (so it can at least handle angled curbs into driveways). I say this bearing in mind that this is me and I am low range 4x4 capability to the core. And when it’s really bad out, the Ascent will stay in the garage, although I’m going to test it in some really bad stuff wearing a more truck type tire (Falken Wildpeak AT Trail that is winter rated and Falken developed specifically for this vehicle class).

 

[weatherman]

They had some early issues with the CVT transmission on the Ascent. I did some research and couldn’t find what the other issue(s) may be, I know Car and Driver hated all the “driver assist” stuff like lane departure warning, but you can turn all that off if your don’t like it. My approach was to just buy the full coverage 8 year / 120K warranty.

In their most recent "Least Reliable Cars" list, CR listed the Ascent as #2 behind just the Chevy Silverado 1500. To quote them "Trouble spots: Transmission major/minor, steering/suspension, in-car electronics, climate system."

I'm not one to really prioritize top reliability -- in my driveway is a 2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe, 2019 Volvo XC40, and 2016 Chevy Silverado 1500. But I feel it's important to warn people what they are getting into, especially when CR ranks it that low. My Rubicon has been okay for the 5 months I've owned it. The XC40 has been a frequent flyer at the dealer for repairs. My Silverado blew a transmission in the middle of a desert while on a road trip this year preventing me from getting to my vacation reservations, and setting me back over $5k in repairs. So take it from me, bad things happen.

 

[johnnyvw]

A Tiguan would not be nearly the same as her current Highlander. It will also be a step back in width and length of the interior. The 3rd row on the Tiguan is a lot more useless than her Highlander.

VW doesn't make anything nearly the same as her current Highlander.

The Atlas Cross Sport is a longer car, even longer than the 2020+ Highlander (by about an 1"). The refreshed 2021 atlas grew 2" in bumpers to break the 200" length mark. Those extra inches in the Atlas, Ascent, and Korean twins shows itself in the 3rd row space... with the exception of the Mazda CX-9, the extra inches (199") still means it's as big as the shorter Highlander inside.

I'm not seeing where she currently has a third row of seating, can you point that out to me in the pictures? Maybe I missed that. I was going on the assumption the dogs are sitting in the back seat (second row) and the cooler is in the cargo area. if that's the case, IMO the room is nearly the same unless that cooler is ginormous....

With the back seat down, I put an entire expanded queen size select comfort bed into my car....that includes the frame/platform.

 

[johnnyvw]

The new Tiguan? Just out of curiosity, what is the MPG difference and also the distance from the front seat (pease set back one notch from yoru regular position) to the gate?

Yes, 2020 (the newer "larger" one was introduced for the 2018 MY). The mileage difference between the Tiggy and the Alltrack is about 2-3 MPG at most (Alltrack being just a little better). Around town it's closer, probably due to the engine design of the Tiguan being skewed towards lower end power.
When you say from front seat to the "gate" you mean to the tailgate, correct? I can check that after work today. That was the first thing I checked in the showroom! LOL

 

[snwbrdr]

I'm not seeing where she currently has a third row of seating, can you point that out to me in the pictures? Maybe I missed that. I was going on the assumption the dogs are sitting in the back seat (second row) and the cooler is in the cargo area. if that's the case, IMO the room is nearly the same unless that cooler is ginormous....

With the back seat down, I put an entire expanded queen size select comfort bed into my car....that includes the frame/platform.

All of the Highlanders of that generation (2014 to 2019) have 3 rows as standard equipment, unlike the Tiguan, which is standard with FWD and optional with 4Motion

You probably didn't lay the queen size bed flat, since the width of the 2nd row is 58", which is smaller than a queen size mattress, AND it shrinks more for the area behind the 2nd row, since the wheel wells cut into the width of the space, so, you probably fit everything in diagonally.

 

[johnnyvw]

Any of these vehicles have nearly no cargo space when the third row is in use, so it's a moot point. @lisamamot showed a typical loading of her vehicle, and a Tiguan would nearly match that.

And no, the bed didn't lay flat. The select comfort beds are modular and use air bags. The largest box was about 6+' long and 3' x 3'. Another box was probably 4' square and 18". A third box was about 6' x2' x 1'. Plus some pieces that made up the frame base that got tucked in where they could. The wheel wheel do cut into the width, but they are only about 4" high before they taper into the sides, so unless you have something nearly the full height of the rear hatch, that's not a show-stopper.

 

[Muleski]

I never buy new cars, they are such an awful value, except when the used car market is insane. I saw a 2015 Sequoia with 140K miles posted for $47,500 a couple days ago.

Used car prices are all over the map. Some, like that one, with what I would say are insane prices. My son has been making some money flipping cars this summer. He's a coach, and there has been zero international travel, so he's at home.

He bought a Sequoia, maybe a 2012? with about 125K miles. Dirty in and out, but fully booked up with dealer service. I think he paid $12K for it.

Nuts. I wonder what MSRP was new on that one. I think a Limited trim was about $55K, and nobody paid full price.

 

[johnnyvw]

The new Tiguan? Just out of curiosity, what is the MPG difference and also the distance from the front seat (pease set back one notch from yoru regular position) to the gate?

From the back of the drivers seat to the tailgate is approx 76 inches. I'm 5'8", 32 inch inseam, I like to drive with a fairly upright position: if my hands are at ten and two, I can rotate my elbows in to touch the front of my ribcage. That's measured at the level of the deck...if you go up 12 inches in height, it would be a bit shorter due to seatback rake and the curvature of the hatch

 

[Muleski]

All of the Highlanders of that generation (2014 to 2019) have 3 rows as standard equipment, unlike the Tiguan, which is standard with FWD and optional with 4Motion

You probably didn't lay the queen size bed flat, since the width of the 2nd row is 58", which is smaller than a queen size mattress, AND it shrinks more for the area behind the 2nd row, since the wheel wells cut into the width of the space, so, you probably fit everything in diagonally.

Can you remove the third row seats, or do they fold flat, and reasonably out of the way?

BTW, we're on our fourth Toyota Land Cruiser {all pre 2005}. I don't think the third row seats have been in any of them for more than the first couple of days after buying them. Useless and eat up too much space.

As I recall the passenger seat in a Tiguan folds flat, which can come in handy. I may be wrong, but I think I heard that. My daughter was really juggling between and Alltrack and a Tiguan. She bought the Alltrack. Smaller, but big enough for her, and it "feels and drives" bigger than her 2008 Outback XT. Plenty of space for two of them. Big box on the roof.

Tiguan is a good vehicle, IMO. So is the Atlas.

 

[johnnyvw]

"As I recall the passenger seat in a Tiguan folds flat, which can come in handy. I may be wrong, but I think I heard that."

Pretty much, yes it does. (I had to go out and check that LOL)

 

[lisamamot]

You already have a Skida hat...seems like an Outback with a roofbox would complete the NE look Seriously, there is a reason why everybody in VT drives Subarus.

Oh, my, you should see my Skida collection - I may be a hoarder I am a Vermonter too - lived there my first 21 years. I agree, both on completing the VT/ME look, and the reason it is so popular in these states. Now to convince DH it is an option....that unicorn thing coming into play.

 

[lisamamot]

Cars are so unbelievably complex now that small stuff can cost a mint. In my mind, and I’m a guy who replaces timing belts on my Toyota trucks myself, the extended warranty is just a cost of purchase. I don’t care what brand you’re buying.

Agreed - we have always gotten extended warranties and we are starting to get the longest ones we can now since we tend to keep our vehicles; a couple months ago, when we got our daughter's 2020 Mazda CX-5 (CPO with <5K miles), we purchased the 7 yr.

I never buy new cars, they are such an awful value, except when the used car market is insane.

I much prefer a CPO, but depending on what we settle on I may go new if the newest model has worthy upgrades. I am hoping we can address the door issue with my Highlander so I am not in a hurry. My plan had been to wait an additional year - given current supply, fingers crossed I have the option.

'm not seeing where she currently has a third row of seating, can you point that out to me in the pictures?

I do have third row seating in the 2015 Highlander, but you are correct, you cannot see it; I leave it down as the cargo space would most often be too small otherwise. We used the third row a bit when the kids were teens, but at this stage in my life, the third row is not important. I do want my 2nd row to be a bench and not captains chairs though - my American Staffy X would not like sitting in a chair, definitely a relax on the bench kind a guy

 

[snwbrdr]

Can you remove the third row seats, or do they fold flat, and reasonably out of the way?

BTW, we're on our fourth Toyota Land Cruiser {all pre 2005}. I don't think the third row seats have been in any of them for more than the first couple of days after buying them. Useless and eat up too much space.

As I recall the passenger seat in a Tiguan folds flat, which can come in handy. I may be wrong, but I think I heard that. My daughter was really juggling between and Alltrack and a Tiguan. She bought the Alltrack. Smaller, but big enough for her, and it "feels and drives" bigger than her 2008 Outback XT. Plenty of space for two of them. Big box on the roof.

Tiguan is a good vehicle, IMO. So is the Atlas.

Yes, the 3rd row folds flat like every other midsize CUV in the segment.

The Tiguan is good, however, the Budack cycle engine is pretty gutless with the Aisin 8-speed automatic, with the factory programming. You can wake things up a bit with a APR or Unitronic Stage 1 tune, but for those concerned about warranty....

The Tiguan with the 3rd row seat, the cargo cover has to make an angle up to the third row (so it's not flush with the sill), so it makes me believe the unibody wasn't designed properly with the 3rd row in mind.

I have a love-hate relationship with VW panoramic sunroof shades. Love that the screen allows airflow, which is great when you're parked with the sunroof open... but... hate it because it just filters out light instead of blocking it.

 

[DanoT]

Mechanically the Palisade is a close cousin

What, there's an SUV called a Palisade? Does that newly named resort, Palisades Tahoe know about this? Could be some great marketing crossovers here.

 

[nay]

In their most recent "Least Reliable Cars" list, CR listed the Ascent as #2 behind just the Chevy Silverado 1500. To quote them "Trouble spots: Transmission major/minor, steering/suspension, in-car electronics, climate system."

I'm not one to really prioritize top reliability -- in my driveway is a 2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe, 2019 Volvo XC40, and 2016 Chevy Silverado 1500. But I feel it's important to warn people what they are getting into, especially when CR ranks it that low. My Rubicon has been okay for the 5 months I've owned it. The XC40 has been a frequent flyer at the dealer for repairs. My Silverado blew a transmission in the middle of a desert while on a road trip this year preventing me from getting to my vacation reservations, and setting me back over $5k in repairs. So take it from me, bad things happen.

GM truck transmissions have been crap for so long it’s unreal. I’m largely of the view that any time a manufacturer starts getting into top 5ish production volume range you just get into scale issues. VW has hit this wall for what, forever? Subaru now as well as they’ve grown so rapidly.

VW‘s best selling vehicle is the Atlas and it’s #3 on that list. We’re seeing projections that 2022 is going to be even worse from a supply capacity than 2021. Really the best thing to do right now if you can is wait, especially given near new CPO buys are as expensive or more than paying near invoice was 2 years ago. You get 30K+ miles for literally zero savings.

Absolutely wild that a brand new vehicle may well be the best value you can buy right now, even at MSRP.

 

[johnnyvw]

Yes, the 3rd row folds flat like every other midsize CUV in the segment.

The Tiguan is good, however, the Budack cycle engine is pretty gutless with the Aisin 8-speed automatic, with the factory programming. You can wake things up a bit with a APR or Unitronic Stage 1 tune, but for those concerned about warranty....

The Tiguan with the 3rd row seat, the cargo cover has to make an angle up to the third row (so it's not flush with the sill), so it makes me believe the unibody wasn't designed properly with the 3rd row in mind.

I have a love-hate relationship with VW panoramic sunroof shades. Love that the screen allows airflow, which is great when you're parked with the sunroof open... but... hate it because it just filters out light instead of blocking it.

I would hardly call the Tiguan motor "gutless". Maybe in comparison to an Audi R3. Do you own a Tiguan? I'm wondering why you keep knocking on this car

 

[Muleski]

I would hardly call the Tiguan motor "gutless". Maybe in comparison to an Audi R3. Do you own a Tiguan? I'm wondering why you keep knocking on this car

I agree. Not gutless at all, in my experience.

A VT friend had Tiguan R, and has “chipped” it….re-mapped the ECU. I think he’s added 50 or so hp, and similar torque. Also remapped the throttle box. He’s an experienced performance driver…..very happy with the car as delivered, now delighted with it. Would he rather have a Macan Turbo? Sure.


My daughter was very pleased with her Alltrack, coming from a stage II tuned Outback XT. Really pleased. Lots of mountain highway driving. Never thoought it was gutless.

 

[johnnyvw]

I'm assuming you mean an "R-line"?

 

[Muleski]

I'm assuming you mean an "R-line"?

Yes…..the top trim model. Graphite.
Typing on my phone too fast!