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Why does this keep happening to my studs?

François Pugh

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A little background: I've been changing tires for 50 years (where's that picture of the curmudgeon when you need it). I admit I had a problem with the lug nuts seizing to the studs on the rear right wheel of my '72 Country squire wagon, bent a perfectly good star tire wrench (or T-wrench - 4 different sized ends in a cross) and broke a socket on that one before snapping the stud. Those studs seemed to tighten right up, probably because I drove way too fast almost all the time (times were different in the '70s). I mostly solved the problem by using an impact socket, a long breaker bar and a 6' steel pipe as a snipe; the studs were pretty solid.

The seized lug nut problem went away for decades, but returned when I went to take the winter tires off my new 2015 Mazda 3 (bought new in 2016) in the spring of 2017. Two nuts and studs were just turning in the hub on the back passenger side wheel. I chocked it up to the tire shop over-tightening the lug nuts, and went on with life. I change the tires myself twice a year (spring and fall), and use a torque wrench and I adjusted by setting it at near the low end of the torque range specified in the owner's manual. The only other party to touch the tires has been the local Mazda dealerships (one in North bay and one in Sudbury). It happened three more times: to me in the fall getting the summer tires off last year, at the dealership this summer when they did an oil-change brake check, and this fall to me doing my change over. When it happens to me it's always the rear wheel, but it changes sides.

I am very careful not to over-torque the lug nuts or damage the threads when changing the tires. It (studs turning in the hub) doesn't happen when I change my wife's tires. It doesn't happen when I change my son's tires. It doesn't happen when I change my daughter's tires (all twice a year, most years). It never happened to me with Chevys, Pontiacs, Volkswagens, Toyotas, Kias, other Mazdas, nor any of my other Fords. WTF. The only thing in common is the Mazda service, or maybe I have specially designed weak studs on that Mazda 3.

What do you think is the cause?
Should I add some anti-seize compound to my change over routine, and stay away from the dealership?
 

oldschoolskier

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I have used anti-seize but you have to adjust your torque setting.

I suspect you have a few faulty studs, that rust and fail. Metal is likely the wrong composition and the wrong treatment given.
 
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François Pugh

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No observable rust on the studs. Wish I could say the same about the cheap steel winter rims I made the mistake of buying. Oh yeah, wheels are alloy.
20180709_172937.jpg


and make it pretty hard to cut the nut off :(
 

cantunamunch

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What do you think is the cause?

Small or weak knurled zone on the (factory?) studs. Maybe look up the spec range for that diameter and go with something at the bigger end?

If the studs are spinning in the hub, antiseize on the lug nut threads won't do much except - maybe- provide a sacrificial anode.

Caveat lector: I haven't changed a set since my Nissan fanboi years, so almost a decade.
 

slowrider

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Do they Salt the roads? Are you cross torquing? Did the tricksters have stimulated wood grain side panels?
 
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François Pugh

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They salt the roads, but not in the summer. Lug nuts would not come off the studs in the fall, before the salt got applied.
Maybe the dealer is using this brand of anti-seize?
1604112607703.png

Wally-wagon. (aka Familiy Truckster)
(random googled up image)
1604112690413.png

IIRC, mine was a darker green, but with the same fake wood and roof rack.
 

Ogg

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AKA "Family Truckster" 400 cid. Trailer Package. Would beat late 70's Fire-chickens up the Hill in Fort Mac.
One of my friends had his grandmother’s old ‘72 Pontiac Gran Sport with a 455 and 4.11 posi as his first car. It was fun beating the hot muscle cars of the day with your arm stretched out on the bench seat like you’re going for a Sunday cruise. :roflmao:
 

oldschoolskier

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No observable rust on the studs. Wish I could say the same about the cheap steel winter rims I made the mistake of buying. Oh yeah, wheels are alloy. View attachment 113658

and make it pretty hard to cut the nut off :(
Who needs to cut them off, get a couple of boys from the hood and pay them to steal the rims. Off and gone in 30sec’s or less, no damage. :roflmao:
 

puptwin

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Has the problem only happened when Mazda service was involved? If they are using a torque stick and impact gun instead of a torque wrench, they may be breaking the stud free when they rattle it up during installation. With respect to the Mazda 3, the components are pretty light and there may not be enough press fit where the stud passes through the hub.

The threads and contact surfaces between the nut and wheel should be clean and dry when installed. The recommended torque is given for a dry installation because lubricants will reduce the friction as the nut is tightened. The loading on the wheel stud will be higher when the final torque is reached if the surfaces are lubricated. This can damage the stud or wheel. Changing tires is something a lot of people do on their own and it's easier to specify "clean and dry" then it is to call out a certain lubricant when most people will likely ignore the specification and throw whatever they have at it.
 

ScotsSkier

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Left hand thread??? :roflmao: Dont know about the US but in the UK a lot of commercial vehicles - especially the Ford Transits - had left hand threads on the left side of the vehicle. i remember on e of my guys having a puncture on the freeway then calling for help after he had spent 30 minutes using a 6 foot "extension" trying to "loosen" it....:ogbiggrin::ogbiggrin:
 

KingGrump

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My '69 Dodge Sport Fury had left hand threaded studs on the driver side also.
 
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François Pugh

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My '69 Dodge Sport Fury had left hand threaded studs on the driver side also.
"Over the top and to the rear" to take off the lug nuts. Apparently Chrysler did this to avoid having Coriolis loosen the bolts, not really needed for such a small effect, but interesting that it was always a right side tire that tightened up on my old abused Wally-wagon.

The 2015 Mazda 3 shows no preference for right or left, and I very seldom drive it over 100 mph; we have an automatic mandatory 7-day car impoundment, and a possible $10,000 speeding ticket for doing that here. I don't want to find out the hard way if the maximum fine is ever used!
 

Erik Timmerman

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Left hand thread??? :roflmao: Dont know about the US but in the UK a lot of commercial vehicles - especially the Ford Transits - had left hand threads on the left side of the vehicle. i remember on e of my guys having a puncture on the freeway then calling for help after he had spent 30 minutes using a 6 foot "extension" trying to "loosen" it....:ogbiggrin::ogbiggrin:

Why on Earth would they have left hand threads?
 
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François Pugh

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Why on Earth would they have left hand threads?
"Over the top and to the rear" to take off the lug nuts. Apparently Chrysler did this to avoid having Coriolis loosen the bolts, not really needed for such a small effect, but interesting that it was always a right side tire that tightened up on my old abused Wally-wagon.
 

oldschoolskier

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I still suspect improper heat treat/metallurgy on the studs.

One question, same stud locations or are they always different? As in factory (different) ....or something else (same) is the issue.

Also do a google search see if other Mazda 3 owners are having the issue.
 

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