Individual Review Augment Skis -- Buyer Beware

[markojp]

You should be pissed off at the people in other ski shops and retailers who failed to provide the level of services that you are, not at the customers.

Last I looked, I haven't killed anyone, and don't have the time or bandwidth to be pissed off at the brick and mortar retail world. We can't control what other shops do. We go out of our way with customer service, especially given the volume we do. Occassionally a customer has an unreasonable gripe, and yes, we do 'fire' them. One case was with a skis mounted and measuring .5 mm different longitudinally between left and right skis. The customer claimed he could feel .5mm, and that jigs are perfect, and we were incompetent.. that's not 1, that's .5mm. We returned his money, took the skis back, and said that we could not provide service to his standards... all very politely.

If I read only this thread and didn't know any better from our customer base that we don't suck, I'd throw in the towel. But here's the deal. We all get to vote with our wallets. If all shops suck, then we just need to tune and prep (maybe make?) our own skis, hand mount, etc... no problem other than time. Personally, I like working on my own gear. It's sort of meditative.

 

[Mike King]

Last I looked, I haven't killed anyone. We can't control what other shops do. We go out of our way with customer service, especially given the volume we do. Occassionally a customer has an unreasonable gripe, and yes, we do 'fire' them. One case was with a skis mounted and measuring .5 mm different longitudinally between left and right skis. The customer claimed he could feel .5mm, and that jigs are perfect, and we were incompetent.. that's not 1, that's .5mm. We returned his money, took the skis back, and said that we could not provide service to his standards... all very politely.

If I read only this thread and didn't know any better from our customer base that we don't suck, I'd throw in the towel. But here's the deal. We all get to vote with our wallets. If all shops suck, then we need to tune and prep (maybe make?) our own skis, hand mount, etc... no problem other than time.

@markojp that's the professional way to handle the situation and to build a reputation for standing behind your product and service. Kudos!

 

[GB_Ski]

@markojp, i think your shop will be fine. In the case of Mike, if I'm a dealer for Augment on this forum, even if I didn't sell him the original pair, I would've step in and offer him a deal to make it right. When the transmission on my Outback died with less than 40K. My normal dealership made me towed the car to them and charge $150 for the diagnostic and $2.5K for replacement. I called a few other dealerships, one manager stepped up, towed my car to them, put the transmission under warranty repair and gave me a courtesy car for a month. Guess what, he got my business for as long as I own a Subaru.

 

[Noodler]

What kills me about the whole situation is that in our time of social media, you would think that any rep would know better than cross-up a single customer at the risk of literally thousands of product sales.

 

[ski otter 2]

At this point, it's easy for me to avoid the bad shops, mostly: I tune and flatten myself. And I'm careful.

I know of three or four good shops in the Colorado Front Range area in terms of ski tuning/base flattening, and a few others I'm told are good too.
(And in this I consider myself fortunate. )
I didn't find them by sticking my head in the sand. Besides, lots more I know of are good in other ways, some with good friends I ski with.

As I said, I have very good friends in some of those places that aren't so great at tuning (not talking about stuff like .5 mm difference in ski mount); and I still do business, carefully, in some of them, because they are sometimes very good in other ways. Fun and safe. For instance, they may not be able to flatten a railed ski enough, esp. in volume, but they may well honor a warranty, or go out of their way to educate and help me in other ways, save me from easy mistakes or misunderstandings, and technically guide me with equipment, from their own long decades of rich experience in the ski business. One learns to ski around the hazards, and have fun.

 

[Aquila]

Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. I enjoy my Augment skis but I was lucky enough to buy them from a local rep/reseller, so I haven't actually had to deal with the brand directly. Augment skis are somewhat popular among ski instructors where I am, but having a local retailer offering demos helps a lot.

I am reminded of the time I demoed Black Crows skis at my local ski area. I had been interested in the skis but the demo techs/reps were so rude and condescending that I honestly lost all interest in the brand. The ski wasn't that great anyway but my experience was absolutely soured by the poor customer service I got.

 

[fatbob]

It's great that the stores that go above and beyond to deliver customers a great product are standing up. I have a buddy who is possibly the most reliable guy in Europe on ski tuning and standing behind the stuff he sells. He however only has that niche, where people will ship him skis to be tuned/fixed, because the bigger retailers fail conspicuously and lots of resort shops don't really give a damn cos they have the turnover anyway.

Most customers don't know how to tell good from poor, upfront, untried. If they are tourists they quite possibly have no local knowledge and figure a ski shop is a ski shop. If experienced skiers are virtually all saying they have had problems at one point or another then clearly there is a problem. It's equally clear that it seems it's no-one's job to fix it, to raise standards generally, to remove the grit in the gears.

Myself, not having a local ski shop, I try to do as much tuning as possible myself and be very specific when I need something done on a machine. Having a new snowboard many years ago returned after its first service with over half the base material gone taught me that ( and yes a big FU to whatever store in Banff taught me that lesson)

 

[fatbob]

^ I should say as an addendum to the above maybe we're saying that the ski industry is no better or worse than it should be and equally or moreso we'd find problems with home contractors, auto dealers/repair shops, and certainly with telecomms/utilities etc.

Maybe it's just because it's so close to something we care deeply about we notice it more.

 

[Truberski]

I’ve had some Issues with skis over the years (Blizzard and Volkl) and in both cases the manufacturer stepped up to make it right. But in these cases I believe it happened and was smooth thanks to my local ski shop and the relationship I had with them (and likely relationship they had with Blizzard and Volkl). I can be a real cheapskate at times but it is worth it to find and support the best brick and mortar shop in your area. This isn’t the factor/issue in the OPs case so more of a comment about the majority of the brick and mortar shops being the “good guy” (especially if you show them your appreciation and business). An occasional 4-pack of Heady Topper doesn’t hurt either!

 

[Eric@ict]

I will not support the blanket dismissals in this or any industry.....

A group of us were having this very discussion the other night. CS has dropped over the years and this past year has become very bad. My wife and I have just come to expect poor service so we can enjoy ourselves. I can say, it has saved me a load in tips.

 

[cantunamunch]

What kills me about the whole situation is that in our time of social media, you would think that any rep would know better than cross-up a single customer at the risk of literally thousands of product sales.

What that tells you is that there is probably a reinforcing reward system - pushing back and gaslighting the customer experience has probably proven successful on more than one occasion.

Do you have an SVST Bevel meter?

 

[Dakine]

What I find amazing is @Augment Skis Skis doesn't have a damn thing to say about all of this.

Whassup @Philpug?

 

[James]

As a shop owner, I tune every pair of new skis that go out the door. I do it the hard way, by hand, with quality tools, and lots of blood, sweat and tears. It is very rare to find a pair of new skis that don't need some work to be flattened, and have the edge bevels reset. It is the nature of the beast. We are working with a product that is a bit organic and it changes as materials dry, cure, etc. Also, most skis are factory finished on good machinery, but in a more, efficient, production fashion with very little individual attention. It probably wouldn't be cost effective for a manufacturer to do that. It probably isn't cost effective for me to do it either, but, I do anyway and most generally people are very happy with what they buy from me. If they are not, we'll find something different, or try to fix the issue to the best of our ability. Most people that own their own business will do that kind of thing, so that they can stay in business. I have found that if you don't provide good customer service and address issues as they arise, you won't be around very long. So, I kind of resent the attitude that a couple of posters have on this thread, that they can't trust retailers, or get good customer service or good quality tunes from shops. I take a great amount of pride in my tunes, and my hands are arthritic and beat to death at this time of year for all the work that I've put into making skis the best that they can be. So, making a blanket, negative, statement about ski shops and retailers kind of pisses me off. You can't judge an entire industry by a couple of bad customer service experiences.

You should be pissed off. At the industry. We are and we’re sick of it. I could spend every post talking about it but what’s the point. Don’t let them get away with their BS. Why is the NA head of Fischer talking nonsense and untruths about their skis? Because he can. No one gives a crap. They laugh it off. Even here. They are never called out. So, get pissed and tell them so.
I’m tired of the German word excuse. He’s not saying inappropriate words in English in other contexts or he’d be fired. It’s a small thing but it’s repeated over and over and it’s the tip of the iceberg of nonsense perpetrated by the ski industry.

I never call out specific shops for bad tunes or other issues because they’re in a tough situation and it’s not like they’re buying private jets. This year grinds have been 3 out of 5 bad. That’s from a good shop with very expensive machine.

I don’t know what the solution is to the tuning issue. It’s tempting to advocate a car purchase model where you expect to pay a prep fee. But that wouldn’t solve the problem.
If a major section of the buying public skied more hard snow this would be a bigger issue.

And kudos to you for not treating tuning customers like a moron. Many shops do.

 

[mdf]

I never call out specific shops for bad tunes or other issues because they’re in a tough situation and it’s not like they’re buying private jets. This year grinds have been 3 out of 5 bad. That’s from a good shop with very expensive machine.

Maybe you should give kudos for the 2 good grinds. Or were those from the same shop as the bad ones?

 

[fatbob]

I never call out specific shops for bad tunes or other issues because they’re in a tough situation and it’s not like they’re buying private jets. This year grinds have been 3 out of 5 bad. That’s from a good shop with very expensive machine.
.

Kudos for you for not badmouthing but it's not helpful for a experienced and knowledgable customer to only hit 40% with a good shop with a very expensive machine. What does that say for the less informed of the customer scale and the service they are getting?

 

[markojp]

Mike had a poor experience, and all of us in the entire industry are schmucks. There is NO reward system for acting in bad faith. I've always posted to be helpful and provide correct, useful information, add value, etc.. but I'm done. This place has become a misery pit rather than a place to constructively seek solutions, and specific to this thread, help Mike.

 

[Steve]

Be careful folks, although a 2016 law called the Consumer Review Fairness Act (CRFA), protects consumers’ ability to leave an honest online review of a business without being punished, you can still be sued for negative online reviews, or postings. The company suing might lose the lawsuit, but they have bigger photon torpedoes than we do and can afford the legal costs more than we can. Not that Augment probably is going to sue, but complainer beware.

 

[fatbob]

Be careful folks, although a 2016 law called the Consumer Review Fairness Act (CRFA), protects consumers’ ability to leave an honest online review of a business without being punished, you can still be sued for negative online reviews, or postings. The company suing might lose the lawsuit, but they have bigger photon torpedoes than we do and can afford the legal costs more than we can. Not that Augment probably is going to sue, but complainer beware.

Fair warning but to me if ANY business starts down that kind of bullying (deeper pockets) path with individual consumers who have left actual honest reviews of their experience then they've opted out of my business for ever.

 

[BC.]

As a shop owner, I tune every pair of new skis that go out the door. I do it the hard way, by hand, with quality tools, and lots of blood, sweat and tears. It is very rare to find a pair of new skis that don't need some work to be flattened, and have the edge bevels reset. It is the nature of the beast. We are working with a product that is a bit organic and it changes as materials dry, cure, etc. Also, most skis are factory finished on good machinery, but in a more, efficient, production fashion with very little individual attention. It probably wouldn't be cost effective for a manufacturer to do that. It probably isn't cost effective for me to do it either, but, I do anyway and most generally people are very happy with what they buy from me. If they are not, we'll find something different, or try to fix the issue to the best of our ability. Most people that own their own business will do that kind of thing, so that they can stay in business. I have found that if you don't provide good customer service and address issues as they arise, you won't be around very long. So, I kind of resent the attitude that a couple of posters have on this thread, that they can't trust retailers, or get good customer service or good quality tunes from shops. I take a great amount of pride in my tunes, and my hands are arthritic and beat to death at this time of year for all the work that I've put into making skis the best that they can be. So, making a blanket, negative, statement about ski shops and retailers kind of pisses me off. You can't judge an entire industry by a couple of bad customer service experiences.

QOTYC (quote of the year contender)

*Sounds like a shop I'd like to work at in the future......

 

[Tricia]

Wow, I am just catching up with this thread this morning and am kind of disappointed at the shop bashing. We have several shops represented here including but not exclusive to, Mark, Mike T, Coolhand, Tim Hedin who go above and beyond.
I'm not sure how we went down the shop bashing path, I thought we were better than that. You're making my hair hurt.