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Utah Bucket List Western Ski Trip advice

Jwrags

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Update:

First, I appreciate all the input. The first law of ski travel: If you ask 5 skiers what they think about a potential ski trip, the minimum number of opinions is 7.

As Tony pointed out, many of the great options you've brought up are not happening. Telluride, Sun Valley, etc. If it ain't on our GI Joe pass, he ain't going. Crossing the Canadian border is a no go as long as there is a testing requirement to return to the US. The work/life consequence of a delayed return to either myself or my BIL are too great to risk possibly being delayed by coming up positive.

As much as I like the idea of Vail/Breck/BC, I think Dad is already kind of opposed to the idea. We can get a pretty good flight from BTV through ORD into Vail, but it's $2-300 more a ticket than SLC or Reno. We can handle it, but as the overall price of the trip goes up, so does Dad's resistance to going. He once postponed a 4 hour road trip on me because gas went up $0.25. It's not that he can't afford it, it's that he's got a fundamental objection wired into his soul about paying more for something than he thinks he should. Comes from being a kid who grew up in the projects and clawed his way into the middle class, I suppose.

Anyway, I think we're down to PC or Heavenly. My secret desire is that, if this trip goes off without a hitch and it feels easy to him, maybe I set the stage for another, longer trip next year. The first one is the toughest for him. He used to refuse to ski at Stowe because it was different and 20 minutes further away than Smuggs. Once I broke the seal, though, he was fine with the change. In fact, now that his habit is going to Stowe, he barely skis the Smuggs side anymore.

I think I've convinced him to extend the trip to a Tuesday-Sunday length, but that's about as far as I can push it. I figure we can take it easy up front and ease into things and hope for the best. I know a full week would be better, but I may as well ask him to fly to the moon as be away from home for that long. Again, maybe next time, if I can pull this one off.

PC is easier to get to, as best I can tell, and we've found some reasonable Airbnb's in the area. I like the idea of venturing up into the Cottonwood Canyons. Dad would be just as happy with seeing mountains on a hike/drive as he is on skis. Perhaps an option for a rest day. I might be able to sneak a lift ticket past him and go to another mountain, depends on his mood. Also, total aside, but a trip to Utah might allow me to drop by DPS and check out the factory. The NE/Military rep has been offering me a look around for years if I ever went out that way.

Tahoe looks amazing, not to mention it's clearly got the snow going for it this year. The terrain looks favorable to introducing Dad to some open trees, but perhaps PC has the same. Flying into Reno is tougher, at least 2 connections and a longer ride. That might enough to kill it, but I'll have to see what Dad thinks.

As for majesty, I understand where you're all coming from. I probably mischaracterized my father. The man finds majesty in a snowflake. He loves winter. Any of these western destinations and their snow covered peaks will astound him. I leave you with this. I once wrote to him to ask if he wanted me to buy him a snowblower. This was his reply:

"First significant snow of the season fell last night in Burlington. The air was cold, colder than I'd like. Now it's morning and time for me to shovel and then nurse my aching joints. But I would have it no other way (except to ban snowplows) for the simple act of shoveling forces me to once again enjoy the wonderment of life. Shoveling drags me out beyond the fortress comfort I call home and into a world we try so much to alter. God or no god, the universe is amazing.

With my dripping nose and frozen feet and fingers I am reminded that we struggle to survive like every other creature. Yet, we fail to realize struggle is just nature's way of telling us not to take anything for granted. Struggle is to enjoy, not to fight. Who are the fools? Those that rush to collect as much wealth as possible to live an artificial life cloistered from the natural world? Or those on their knees marveling at the quickness of a scurrying ant synchronizing six legs? I applaud man's achievements, but let me be among the latter. Let me watch the grass grow, the comet streak past, and hear the silence of the snow fall. Do not deprive me of a shovel.

You all have experienced the marvel in a child's face at their first experiences, especially when it's your own. And you think how privileged you are at witnessing this event. But the privilege is theirs. For they are awakening you to what you might have forgotten - the wonder of life and its simple pleasures. Heed their lessons for they know what you might have forgotten.

Bye, I have to shovel....."
Your dad sounds like a wonderful guy to sit around the campfire with a beer while contemplating life. I’ll make sure to bring the beer:)
 

Crank

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Yes to Alta or Alta/Bird over anything else in the region if you are going off campus.

From what I remember, Park City has a pretty good free bus system. Haven't been in over a decade so I no longer know much, or anything, about that. Last time there we stayed out near Canyons and it was pretty easy to get into town and back. However, it might me nicer to stay at the smaller, in town place and be able to walk out for dinner, breakfast, drinks...
 

Jim Kenney

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Updated Update:

We're going to Park City. The flights are what clinched it. One connection, short duration, close to airport. Heavenly was in the hunt, but two planes and the length of travel day was too much for him. Vail was close, but when he saw the lift out of downtown PC, he was sold. Weird what gets him excited, but hey, he's going!

Few more questions. We're going March 1-6. Best I could do for length, I get it. Plan is land Tuesday, ski Wednesday, Thursday off (pick up BIL), ski Fri and Sat and wheels up Sunday. I did get Dad to consider buying a lift ticket somewhere else for a single day. I'm guessing Brighton, but I'll see what he thinks. Any tips on how to best handle Saturday? Is that the best day to get away from PCMR?

We're on the fence on where to stay. We found a place downtown near the town lift, but it's small and expensive. We could get more room for less money if we stay further out. We're not nightlife people, this is a very ski focused trip. Any opinions? I imagine parking and what not would wipe out savings quickly compare to a place where we can walk to the lift.

Final note, my daughter may have been the one who cracked the nut. She looked at Grandpa and said "if you have fun, will you take me with you to Beaver Creek next year?" Grandkids are like kryptonite to his curmudgeonly ways. If we pull this off this year, I got a shot at making this an annual thing.
Congrats on locking-in on this. Hopefully all the Omicron stuff will be over and done by early March. That is a prime time for nice weather and good snow pack, although it will be fairly busy.
If you stay in town close to the base of the town lift you could probably ski back to your place each day for lunch, but if you eat on the hill my favorite place for that at Park City is on the patio of the old Summit House above the Motherlode Chair at an elevation of 9,250 ft. This is based on the fine scenery, rather than the food (usually I'm packing a homemade sandwich).

Speaking of scenery, one of the prettiest and usually not too busy intermediate runs at Park City is one called Copperhead off the Iron Mtn chair. Worth checking out when there is some decent visibility!

Copperhead is on the left side of the trail pod in the background of this photo.
pc iron mtn view with orange bubble.jpeg

The quality of skiing on the face of the mtn that leads into the town of Park City is not really the best terrain on the mtn, but it is quite unique to ski over city streets. Here's a shot of the base of the town lift showing its termination in the heart of town:
LL



The views from the two highest points (Ninety-Nine 90 and Jupiter Peak) of the Park City trail layout are pretty majestic, but the trails from both of these are black diamonds.

Charlie Brown trail near the summit of Ninety-Nine 90
peanuts-gang-jpeg.49938

West Face at Jupiter Peak
pc jupiter west face.jpeg

There is some very cool mining history at Park City and if you take a free guided tour given by a mtn ambassador (assuming they are doing them this year) you'll find out all about it.
pc mine.jpeg


I took this photo in Apr 2016 on a commercial plane flying home after skiing PC on the morning of my departure. The PC trail layout spans almost entirely across the picture.
pc aerial.jpeg
 
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JoeSchmoe

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It would be a serious shame for this to be a bucket list trip and the extra paid day not be at Alta/Snowbird, IMO.
We have snowboarders in our group (including me) so I can't comment on Alta, but for a group that doesn't want to spend money on lift tix AND with a 77 year old in tow that wants to try tree skiing, Brighton is the no-brainer over Snowbird.

Brighton has the best and most reliable intermediate tree skiing of anywhere I've been. All terrain is served by high speed lifts, and the views are great.

The crowds are way better too and that's where I see the most retirees.
 

David Chaus

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There is a lot of terrain at Park City and plenty to entertain you, your BIL and your dad for 3-4 days. While the LCC and BCC resorts are great-to-awesome, I have to ask what would your family group gain by going there, based on your and your dad’s criteria?

As far as how far away the lodging is, many hotels and condos will have a free shuttle of their own to take you to the resort, otherwise there is the aforementioned bus system. That often means less actual walking to the lifts than if you were in accommodations close to the base or the Town Lift, or even driving and parking.
 

JoeSchmoe

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, I have to ask what would your family group gain by going there, based on your and your dad’s criteria?

It's the mountain scenery. Dad really wants to see true Rocky Mountain views, and PC is kind of meh in that regard.
 

mdf

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The quality of skiing on the face of the mtn that leads into the town of Park City is not really the best terrain on the mtn, but it is quite unique to ski over city streets. Here's a shot of the base of the town lift showing its termination in the heart of town:
I concur. The skiing to get to the Town Lift isn't really worth it, but for some reason I love it!

As for side trips -- for that short a trip, I would stay where you are. PC is plenty big, and the hassle factor can suck the fun out pretty quickly. Staying within walking distance (or better yet, real ski-in ski-out) is a real luxury. For my typical trip of dedicated skiers, it is a not-really-necessary luxury. But if you are going to tire and want to quit at different times, then it will really pay off. (I always recommend it for families with young kids, for that reason.)
 

crosscountry

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Plan is land Tuesday, ski Wednesday, Thursday off (pick up BIL), ski Fri and Sat and wheels up Sunday. I did get Dad to consider buying a lift ticket somewhere else for a single day. I'm guessing Brighton, but I'll see what he thinks. Any tips on how to best handle Saturday? Is that the best day to get away from PCMR?
I second the suggestion of having BIL take the shuttle instead of missing Thursday entirely. I'd go so far to say ski Wed/Thu/Fri and go sightseeing Saturday!

If you're concerned about Dad getting tired on day 2, do a shorter day on Thursday.

With only 3 skiing days, I'd stay put at PC.
 

HardDaysNight

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Park city has night skiing so if your bil didnt get a full day and needs more snow you can extend into the night for novelty.
Vail terminated night skiing when they took over the resort. From time-to-time the lights on Payday and the 3 Kings terrain park are illuminated in the evenings presumably for the aesthetic effect!
 

raytseng

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I concur. The skiing to get to the Town Lift isn't really worth it, but for some reason I love it!

As for side trips -- for that short a trip, I would stay where you are. PC is plenty big, and the hassle factor can suck the fun out pretty quickly. Staying within walking distance (or better yet, real ski-in ski-out) is a real luxury. For my typical trip of dedicated skiers, it is a not-really-necessary luxury. But if you are going to tire and want to quit at different times, then it will really pay off. (I always recommend it for families with young kids, for that reason.)

Agree to all this and adding-on just pay for any small conveniences since you're already invested at this point.

Like if the walking in ski boots is the painpoint; just pay the $15 or whatever the VR fee for daylocker is and do the walking in in your streetshoes, Especially with 2 or 3ppl; the split cost of a daylocker helps ease any guilt of wasting money if that weighs on the party.
 
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JoeSchmoe

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With only 3 skiing days, I'd stay put at PC.
Normally I'd say the same thing, but the earlier posts about the father literally(!) waxing poetic about nature tells me they HAVE to take him to see the true alpine in the Cottonwoods.
 

crosscountry

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Normally I'd say the same thing, but the earlier posts about the father literally(!) waxing poetic about nature tells me they HAVE to take him to see the true alpine in the Cottonwoods.
View from Park City is plenty good for those who haven't been to other western mountains, which the OP indicated Dad had not.

The hassle factor far outweighs the gain of somewhat better view. I'd save the energy till the next trip to Vail back bowl. Or Jackson, or Banff...
 

JoeSchmoe

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View from Park City is plenty good for those who haven't been to other western mountains, which the OP indicated Dad had not.

The hassle factor far outweighs the gain of somewhat better view. I'd save the energy till the next trip to Vail back bowl. Or Jackson, or Banff...

As a mountain scenery nerd I'd have to respectfully disagree. In some ways I find the find big eastern mountains, like Stowe where he normally skiis to be nicer than PC. What they lack in the little bit of ruggedness PC has near the peaks, they gain in wildness and vastness. The almost desert like view east of the range along with the mansions spread out everywhere detracts greatly from the experience in my eye.

Unlike the rest of us, he may never make it out there again. Also, in all honesty, the short vert / highly groomed runs really don't offer that different of a ski experience compared to a good snow day l in Northern VT (as a retiree, dad can pick and choose the best days to ski).

Hit that bucket list and check out the Cottonwoods.

Worst case scenario, if they're dead set on picking up the BIL at the airport, plan a driving trip up one of the Cottonwood Canyons either before or after they pick him up.
 

crosscountry

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As a mountain scenery nerd I'd have to respectfully disagree.
You maybe a scenery nerd, but the OP's Dad isn't.

I don't know where you live. But the western trees are different. It holds up snow far prettier than the bare branches of the eastern trees. That's what makes western snowy peaks so pretty. It'll be white all over, instead of brown with hints of white as in much of the eastern mountain views. Yes, that's "majestic" enough for anyone going out west for the first time!

Now it's time for me to be respectfully disagree on the scenery of the Cottonwoods. Having been around to many other better scenery destinations, I would class the Cottonwoods scenery as still a "meh", even if it's a "better" meh above that of Park City. Not worth the hassle for just a day.

in all honesty, the short vert / highly groomed runs really don't offer that different of a ski experience compared to a good snow day l in Northern VT
I also disagree there.

There's wide open bowls in Park City. Besides, you missed the OP mention his Dad isn't all that great on 3D snow.

Park City will have a lot more groomers. And those are not the same groomers of the east. The snow will be soft, not icy.

Park City also have quite a bit of wide open trees (e.g. Dream'land). Again, instead of toboggan tracks between every tree as in most northeast glades, the snow will likely be softer.

All in all, Park City is a good compromise for a eastern skier both in scenery and terrain. Different enough to impress, not so radically different to be alarming.
 

Fuller

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If this trip proves to be a success and another is possible, it may be wise to see how Pops tolerates Acetazolomide for altitude sickness. That would extend your options quite a bit for future trips

The wife and I have been going from sea level to sleeping at 9200 ft in Dillon CO as part of our annual reverse migration from Florida to Montana. Our first trip was horrible with both of us not being able to ski our first day. Now I start 24 hrs in advance and keep it up until we leave the high country a few days later. It works pretty well but it would be wise to test drive it back east.

Also, your Dad is a first rate writer, please tell him I enjoyed his letter to you.
 

JoeSchmoe

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You maybe a scenery nerd, but the OP's Dad isn't.

I don't know where you live. But the western trees are different. It holds up snow far prettier than the bare branches of the eastern trees.
That's what makes western snowy peaks so pretty. It'll be white all over, instead of brown with hints of white as in much of the eastern mountain views. Yes, that's "majestic" enough for anyone going out west for the first time!

Now it's time for me to be respectfully disagree on the scenery of the Cottonwoods. Having been around to many other better scenery destinations, I would class the Cottonwoods scenery as still a "meh", even if it's a "better" meh above that of Park City. Not worth the hassle for just a day.


I also disagree there.

There's wide open bowls in Park City. Besides, you missed the OP mention his Dad isn't all that great on 3D snow.

Park City will have a lot more groomers. And those are not the same groomers of the east. The snow will be soft, not icy.

Park City also have quite a bit of wide open trees (e.g. Dream'land). Again, instead of toboggan tracks between every tree as in most northeast glades, the snow will likely be softer.

All in all, Park City is a good compromise for a eastern skier both in scenery and terrain. Different enough to impress, not so radically different to be alarming.
The dad is scenery nerd. You might have missed where the OP said he tears up talking about the Western mountains he's never seen. PC will be a disappointment as they are a poor representation of western mountains.

Also Park City has plenty of brown. I'm guessing it's all the Aspen trees. In the upper mountains of the east, coniferous also dominate similar to PC.

Eagle_Race_Arena_at_Park_City_Resort.jpg


As a retiree, the OP's dad can ski VT any day he wants. Mid-week groomers with fresh snow in the east are not different that Western groomers... In fact I've had some downright mediocre Western days in my travels. If they're unfortunate to hit some thaw-freeze weather that PC is not immune to (I've had it February in the Cottonwoods), that for sure would be less than a good mid-week VT day.
 

crosscountry

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The dad is scenery nerd. You might have missed where the OP said he tears up talking about the Western mountains he's never seen. PC will be a disappointment as they are a poor representation of western mountains.

Also Park City has plenty of brown. I'm guessing it's all the Aspen trees. In the upper mountains of the east, coniferous also dominate similar to PC.

Eagle_Race_Arena_at_Park_City_Resort.jpg


As a retiree, the OP's dad can ski VT any day he wants. Mid-week groomers with fresh snow in the east are not different that Western groomers... In fact I've had some downright mediocre Western days in my travels. If they're unfortunate to hit some thaw-freeze weather that PC is not immune to (I've had it February in the Cottonwoods), that for sure would be less than a good mid-week VT day.
Whatever... :rolleyes:
 

Wasatchman

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The dad is scenery nerd. You might have missed where the OP said he tears up talking about the Western mountains he's never seen. PC will be a disappointment as they are a poor representation of western mountains.
The picture you put up of Park City is the front side. Scenery is a matter of personal preference but I don't think the picture you posted is an entirely fair representation.
 

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