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Deb Armstrong recent mogul vids

jack97

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Deb Armstrong has clips of recent mogul skiing tips from Bobby Aldegheri. Check it out if you want to hear and watch mogul skiing techniques from a mogul skier who had just about done it all, from competing to coaching.

Disclaimer, this is not meant to be a complete video series on how to ski moguls, but to give perspective of some important techniques from IMO a legend in the sport. Further, everyone has their own goals and what they want from skiing, this is not meant to say this is the proper way to ski them. They are however needed to ski a direct line.

 
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oldschoolskier

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Actually that pivot under foot was in the late 80’s and early 90’s (I got criticized for following the tips in moguls with 205’s at Norquay about 91-92, until they level 4 realized how well it worked).

This technique applies in all forms of skiing as it shows who you manipulate the skis and how you shoulders remain square to the fall line, be it moguls, SL, GS or free skiing. The difference as noted is that of how the edges are engaged and what is required to keep them that way.

Good lesson for all skiers, even those learning to carve. As mentioned in the thread % skier that don’t carve, they can ski like this without moguls either.

It’s funny technique always comes back to what works, regardless of the equipment, with slight variation to maximize equipment performance.

@moderator this would be an extremely good cross post for understanding of technique required for carving, even though its about moguls.
 

SSSdave

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Two skiers I would welcome skiing for fun with. Aldegheri now skiing on a 77mm waist midfat that shows he has successfully moved on from a traditionally narrow F17 Assault that allows skiing more types of terrain. Deb on those 72 waist HRC slalom skis is my size and Bobby just a wee taller/heavier, yeah we small folks.

If one watches his first short sequence video'd from behind, one will notice the tails are not quite even as he rapidly switches from left to right to left... skis, that is an indication he is not using what was the dominant swivel skis together style but instead as he later comments on, dominantly edging the downhill ski each turn where the unedged ski leads, knee tucked slightly in front of the other knee.
 

Seldomski

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If you just let YouTube autoplay, you get a lot of her videos. Didn't know about them.

Yeah she has a fair number of unlisted videos that show up in the playlists. I am not sure why exactly she does this... maybe she's worried about people viewing things out of context? Giving the right tip to the wrong person sort of thing?

I do think it is interesting to see how differently the two appear when skiing the same bumps.

I have been fortunate to take lessons from instructors with PSIA *or* with background in freestyle - I have sought out both types. I haven't found one that can swap between the two types. They both ski the bumps competently but the look is quite different. The freestylers keep everything more stacked/compact. Head, shoulders, feet all stay together. They seem to ski them with less edge angle. The PSIA instructors I have had typically let the ski arc a bit more and their feet displace laterally a bit more. They have a bit more carve in the bumps and more lateral displacement in general as they go through the bump field.
 
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jack97

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I have been fortunate to take lessons from instructors with PSIA *or* with background in freestyle - I have sought out both types. I haven't found one that can swap between the two types. They both ski the bumps competently but the look is quite different. The freestylers keep everything more stacked/compact. Head, shoulders, feet all stay together. They seem to ski them with less edge angle. The PSIA instructors I have had typically let the ski arc a bit more and their feet displace laterally a bit more. They have a bit more carve in the bumps and more lateral displacement in general as they go through the bump field.

Those who competed in moguls are taught to control their speed by using the face of the upcoming bump along with front part of the ski. By pressing the ski into the bump, they can control their decent. They generally do not arc nor use the turn shape as the primary way to control speed.

Further, they have the equipment that allows this. Below is another of Deb's vid where B Aldegheri is talking about equipment setup for mogul skiing (direct line). I know he is a Lange guy and he has made the standard modifications to get more flex out of the boot. The standard drill is to make short turns and control your speed in a narrow corridor by flexing the boot and pressuring the front of the ski. The progression into the bumps is to do the same. Once you can pressure the front of the ski to control the ski and aim the front of the ski (with pressure) to that upcoming face, its moguls skiing at another level or speed control with another degree of freedom.




 
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Tim Hodgson

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@jack97 Thank you for posting.

Along with the "turn" technique you are describing is the turning of the ski accomplished by anchoring/stuffing the tips with forward pressure and then creating or letting the tail "drift" to the side to make the turn?

In other words, is the technique you are describing the TIP TORQUE TURN described by Tom Gellie?

Also see my MA question here:

 
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jack97

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Along with the "turn" technique you are describing is the turning of the ski accomplished by anchoring/stuffing the tips with forward pressure and then creating or letting the tail "drift" to the side to make the turn?

In other words, is the technique you are describing the TIP TORQUE TURN described by Tom Gellie?

Yes, I have heard stuffing the tips as slang for pressuring the front of the ski and letting the tail drift. Further the vid of B Aldegheri talking about boot setup is something I only hear within the competition mogul skiing crowd.

One of my first lesson from a moguls coach was to get boots that allowed me to flex, its that important to ski in that narrow corridor, be it flat terrain or with moguls.
 

Tim Hodgson

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Along with pressuring the tip of the ski, are you edging the tip to anchor it? Or is the tip flat? I am so confused about what is the goal with the tip of the ski. Also most of the videos are made from down hill or from the side so I can't really see what the tip is doing.

Would you mind describing in detail what is the precise goal for using the tip of the ski in zipper line skiing?

Believe it or not, it is not well known by skiers at my level.
 
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jack97

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Along with pressuring the tip of the ski, are you edging the tip to anchor it? Or is the tip flat? I am so confused about what is the goal with the tip of the ski. Also most of the videos are made from down hill or from the side so I can't really see what the tip is doing.

Would you mind describing in detail what is the precise goal for using the tip of the ski in zipper line skiing?

Believe it or not, it is not well known by skiers at my level.

Yeah, I try to get the tip to anchor into the snow, I think of it as biting into the snow. By doing this, I'm getting the ski into a reverse camber. It does two things, gets my edge engaged to control my turn, more left/right or straight into face of the bump. The other, is at the face of the bump, the reverse camber acts as a spring to absorb the forces and used to control the speed. When you augment this with absorption (flexing the knee and hip), its another degree of freedom one can use to control their decent.

I find that letting the tips go flat, I have less control of where my turns are going and can't use the spring action as effectively.
 

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Good stuff. Are you going from outside foot to outside foot even though it looks even? Mosely certainly talks about that.

Bit of a nitpick in the first vid, since we’ve been over this many times.
Aldegheri’s talk of the effect of counter flexing the ski in slalom isn’t correct, if we take him literally. He may just be saying it to simplify, but it’s a common misconception. If you take a ski and flex into reverse camber, there’s not enough force there to launch a child six feet, let alone a 200lb guy. The force comes from the turn the skier created, and the only way to get that, and have the ski to really go into big reverse camber is from edge angle, and the ability and strength to hold it. Then you can get 2g’s or whatever which will launch someone.
 

Chris V.

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Good stuff. Are you going from outside foot to outside foot even though it looks even? Mosely certainly talks about that.
That's when you're truly getting to an expert level, I'd think. Look like you're doing one thing when you're actually doing something else.
 
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Chris V.

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I have been fortunate to take lessons from instructors with PSIA *or* with background in freestyle - I have sought out both types. I haven't found one that can swap between the two types.
The very best of the former competitive bump skiers now instructing are able to detune their style--making it turnier--to be able to demo and teach something mere mortals can aspire to. Heck, some of them detune it in their own skiing, since they're no longer riding on 19 year old knees!
 

Tim Hodgson

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@jack97 and @James: Tom Gellie has a heels to head squeeze the orange behind the knees pressure the tips and anchor corresponding tip edges torque the tails laterally onto edge drill which in my mind would have application to what in my mind jack97 is describing.
 

James

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@jack97 and @James: Tom Gellie has a heels to head squeeze the orange behind the knees pressure the tips and anchor corresponding tip edges torque the tails laterally onto edge drill which in my mind would have application to what in my mind jack97 is describing.
Lol. That's a mouthfull.
Think that’s called lifting the tails and digging in a tip?
 

Tim Hodgson

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Well I fit it in a single sentence. And it is a condensed version of the video. (Maybe that was a little too much of an insight into how my brain works...)
 

Seldomski

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Yeah, I try to get the tip to anchor into the snow, I think of it as biting into the snow. By doing this, I'm getting the ski into a reverse camber. It does two things, gets my edge engaged to control my turn, more left/right or straight into face of the bump. The other, is at the face of the bump, the reverse camber acts as a spring to absorb the forces and used to control the speed. When you augment this with absorption (flexing the knee and hip), its another degree of freedom one can use to control their decent.

I find that letting the tips go flat, I have less control of where my turns are going and can't use the spring action as effectively.

I will say the few times I have (recently) done this correctly, it is weird how slow you can go with the skis pointed mostly downhill. The braking you get from the front of the edged ski is good stuff. It was hard for me mentally to point them like that and hope for the best, but it worked out. I had to point them down but also be looking at the right location for turning. It's complicated! I have not done this in anything really steep yet - just on blue moguls. Best to play with it on shallower terrain with smaller moguls then slowly go to bigger and steeper stuff.

Bobby seems to be going downhill slower than Deb, but his skis are still pointed mostly downhill. He's sliding quite a bit more on those moguls than Deb and also throwing in the occasional edge set to really slow down. It's different ski performance. If you point your skis like Bobby but travel with that edge instead of sliding down the fall line buttering the moguls, you will go much faster and look more like Deb. Bobby's feet are not really going the direction the skis are pointed. There's a lot of sliding and braking is happening. Conversely, Deb lets the ski hook up a bit more and it shoots across the slope. She is getting more of the carving performance out of the ski, tip to tail working the skis. I don't think Bobby is working the ski that way - so he is able to keep his body in a narrower corridor with a more direct line.

The very best of the former competitive bump skiers now instructing are able to detune their style--making it turnier--to be able to demo and teach something mere mortals can aspire to. Heck, some of them detune it in their own skiing, since they're no longer riding on 19 year old knees!

I have seen some of these former competitive bumpers, now in their 50s, skiing moguls and they still keep it really tight. When does 'old' start for a former Olympian though? :cool:
Watching them come down, the helmet and shoulders don't displace side to side at all. Maybe move 1 helmet diameter, if that. They can still rip down fast if they want to but keep it tight and less jarring at slower speeds too.

And yes, they can also ski them more 'boring' to demo. But I don't recall them mentioning that their knees couldn't handle the direct line anymore. Maybe skiing it a bit slower down the fall line, but still looking pretty much the same (awesome to my eyes).
 
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jack97

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@jack97 and @James: Tom Gellie has a heels to head squeeze the orange behind the knees pressure the tips and anchor corresponding tip edges torque the tails laterally onto edge drill which in my mind would have application to what in my mind jack97 is describing.

I don't follow Tom Gellie's vid series nor subscribe to his service. The type of drill you are describing sounds like what is show below. Further, how it applies in the bumps.

 

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