Expert ski pair / Groomers & Versatile

[Balsh]

Hello there,

First of, thank you for the insightful content shared here over the years.

Contacting you as plan to acquire a new pair of ski, living close by the French / Swiss Alpes and skiing since I was born.

• Experience: Advanced+ skiier, 25yrs skiing but no competition experience
• Type: Almost exclusively frontside skiiers, always preferring the groomers but facing all type of snow as skiing from December to March
• Dimensions: 27yrs old; 185cm / 6.07ft for 74kg / 163 lbs
• Ski target: Groomers oriented that can face all snow types, the unique pair you need when no plan to buy 2-3 different skiis, great for medium turns high carving, avoiding skiis that cannot be turned without massive efforts
  A best in class pair that I can keep for a good 5 - 8 years, versatile and strong on groomers to carv

Short list:

• Völkl Deacon V-Werks (is 84 waist fine for full day frontside / groomers?)
• Völkl Deacon 76 Masters (the longer turn radius scares me a bit here)
• Atomic Q9 or 9.8 (not too heavy to turn? Red some mixed reviews here)
• Other best in class pair of skis for the above description?

I initially hesitated between pure Slalom Head skis, then looked into the KENDO 88, and the above seem to propose an experience in between.

Questions

• I have red a lot of content and narrow the list to some pairs, but do you have some feedbacks and tips to avoid making some mistakes?
• Are 84 waist fine to ski all day on groomers or is it no brainer and better to go to 70-80 waist range?
• Other pair of skis that I should try if I go for a test-day?
• Better to invest in pure groomers skiis in the end if no plan to go on the powder at all?
• For the boots, real difference between 120 and 110 flex? I ski on 90 wide boots today and first thing will be to change to more dynamic boots even before changing the skiis

Many thanks! That will be very valuable to have your feedback.

Balsh

 

[Levy1]

Kendo 88

 

[Balsh]

Kendo 88

Easy to turn for mid carving on groomers as well ? Red a lot that Deacon 84 is best suited if no plan to go off-piste. What is your view ?

The value for money of the Kendo 88 seems quite outstanding indeed.

 

[Tony Storaro]

The VWerks are sweet ski. Only downside is they are quite noisy on very hard snow. Other than that they fit the bill well.

But first get the boots, this is the most important.

 

[Levy1]

Easy to turn for mid carving on groomers as well ? Red a lot that Deacon 84 is best suited if no plan to go off-piste. What is your view ?

The value for money of the Kendo 88 seems quite outstanding indeed.

My view is the same. Always on groomers the 84. High speed, easy to turn, off-piste, 88.Groomer high speed ripper, the 84. I ski in the east and the snow can be terrible after we beat up the man made.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Groomer high speed ripper, the 84.

Groomer high speed ripper, 84 mm underfoot. Gotta love the Muricans…

 

[anders_nor]

Hello there,

First of, thank you for the insightful content shared here over the years.

Contacting you as plan to acquire a new pair of ski, living close by the French / Swiss Alpes and skiing since I was born.

• Experience: Advanced+ skiier, 25yrs skiing but no competition experience
• Type: Almost exclusively frontside skiiers, always preferring the groomers but facing all type of snow as skiing from December to March
• Dimensions: 27yrs old; 185cm / 6.07ft for 74kg / 163 lbs
• Ski target: Groomers oriented that can face all snow types, the unique pair you need when no plan to buy 2-3 different skiis, great for medium turns high carving, avoiding skiis that cannot be turned without massive efforts
  A best in class pair that I can keep for a good 5 - 8 years, versatile and strong on groomers to carv

Short list:

• Völkl Deacon V-Werks (is 84 waist fine for full day frontside / groomers?)
• Völkl Deacon 76 Masters (the longer turn radius scares me a bit here)
• Atomic Q9 or 9.8 (not too heavy to turn? Red some mixed reviews here)
• Other best in class pair of skis for the above description?

I initially hesitated between pure Slalom Head skis, then looked into the KENDO 88, and the above seem to propose an experience in between.

Questions

• I have red a lot of content and narrow the list to some pairs, but do you have some feedbacks and tips to avoid making some mistakes?
• Are 84 waist fine to ski all day on groomers or is it no brainer and better to go to 70-80 waist range?
• Other pair of skis that I should try if I go for a test-day?
• Better to invest in pure groomers skiis in the end if no plan to go on the powder at all?
• For the boots, real difference between 120 and 110 flex? I ski on 90 wide boots today and first thing will be to change to more dynamic boots even before changing the skiis

Many thanks! That will be very valuable to have your feedback.

Balsh

deacon 84 v-werks is a really great frontside ski, only downsize is 100% ice days, you need narrower, you need more camber profile, if you have good snow, this is an all day all year ski. again,boilerplate ice isnt itsfavorite, that beeing said, it does very well, its just not a 65-68mm camberd ski then

76 doesn't feel very long radius, dont be scared of the radius, very nice ski, I ski it more than the 72 msater really

Q9.8 I just cannot reccomend, they feel WIDE and kinda weird

for what you are writing, Id grabe the 84 v-werks.

 

[anders_nor]

The VWerks are sweet ski. Only downside is they are quite noisy on very hard snow. Other than that they fit the bill well.

But first get the boots, this is the most important.

we have had only a single day of noisy snow this year! so hah! we have had 1,5? the base has 1,5 meter of natural snow or so accoring to news here a few days ago.

 

[Tony Storaro]

we have had only a single day of noisy snow this year! so hah! we have had 1,5? the base has 1,5 meter of natural snow or so accoring to news here a few days ago.

B*stards! Most of our slopes are still closed!
Noise does not bother me simply because I don’t ski the VWerks on hard snow days.

 

[Balsh]

B*stards! Most of our slopes are still closed!
Noise does not bother me simply because I don’t ski the VWerks on hard snow days.

The French Alpes are the same this wear, still closed in many resorts and potentially getting opened in coming days is the weather is kind enough to make it last for more than few days.

deacon 84 v-werks is a really great frontside ski, only downsize is 100% ice days, you need narrower, you need more camber profile, if you have good snow, this is an all day all year ski. again,boilerplate ice isnt itsfavorite, that beeing said, it does very well, its just not a 65-68mm camberd ski then

76 doesn't feel very long radius, dont be scared of the radius, very nice ski, I ski it more than the 72 msater really

Q9.8 I just cannot reccomend, they feel WIDE and kinda weird

for what you are writing, Id grabe the 84 v-werks.

What would you say are the main difference between the Kendo88 and V-Werks in term of feeling? The Kendo seems really to handle all type of snow with 0 limit, but harder to maneuver and more demanding on all day when you want to relax.

While the Master 76 seems not so much a must have when aiming for having only one pair?

 

[Tony S]

If I were only skiing groomers I would definitely be on a 70 - 80mm ski. There are SO many great choices. Personal preference plays a big part. Many of the differences are in "feel" rather than absolute quality.

For example I would probably go out of my way to demo something like the Rossi Hero Elite Plus, just because I happen to like the Rossi feel when it comes to race skis. (That's not necessarily a recommendation, just an insight into thought process.)

@Balsh , what are you skiing on now?

 

[Balsh]

I mainly skied mid-tier ski, like the Rossignol Pursuit 14x (170cm) with 72mm waist. Easy to ski, not demanding and allowing many mistakes, but not so much rewarding and start to feel limited with it. But liked the experience overall, just not getting emotions out of it if it means anything.

Also skied some times on an old Fischer GS ski in 177cm, found them great to ski but less versatile and 21m radius and more high speed hard snow oriented I felt. But had great time as well.

Thank you for the inputs, absolutely what I am looking for! There are plenty of pairs that would make a great work, the idea being to find the one I can go along with for some years. Ideally would need to participate to a skis test day, but not easy to find these days or I struggle to find the dates.

Do you feel that 84mm waist is somehow useless / not optimized on groomers (all snow, all shapes, all conditions not only perfectly lean groomed snow) and moguls?

 

[anders_nor]

The French Alpes are the same this wear, still closed in many resorts and potentially getting opened in coming days is the weather is kind enough to make it last for more than few days.


What would you say are the main difference between the Kendo88 and V-Werks in term of feeling? The Kendo seems really to handle all type of snow with 0 limit, but harder to maneuver and more demanding on all day when you want to relax.

While the Master 76 seems not so much a must have when aiming for having only one pair?

kendo you need to use more input/angle to make them turn, much larger radius, less torsional stiffness, better offpistE/woods ski, less good onpiste ski, and you have to put in work to make it fun, very mellow ski and also suitable for beginners, but to get the kendo to work good, you need to be a good skier, and ski fast. all in all the kendo is less demanding than the deacon 84 for everything, but also less rewarding for what I use them for. its a more universal ski with less onpiste focus.

v-werks is fun and engageing and you can go fast on the, and lots of angle and go SHORT turns, very relaxing ski when you want, doesnt try to kill you

76 master = keeps you more on your toes, wants angle and ice, works good in some chop as well due to rocker, larger turn radius makes it wanna go a bit faster than the deacon 84 v-werks, works much better on ice, almost as good as a camberd ski.

the deacon 84 v-werks "feels" skinnier as its pretty nimble and fast edge to edge, but works great in skied out conditions due to width. it's the ski I ski most on piste, and I have 40-50 pairs of skis.

when I travel to alps and can only bring 1, its the deacon 84, same when I hit the slopes here. sometimes GF has this 1 ski maximum for short trips to slope
(I rent powskis, since if I bring powskis its never pow)

 

[Tony S]

I mainly skied mid-tier ski, like the Rossignol Pursuit 14x (170cm) with 72mm waist.

Do you feel that 84mm waist is somehow useless / not optimized on groomers (all snow, all shapes, all conditions not only perfectly lean groomed snow) and moguls?

Sure, 84 is great if you're skiing a lot of "(all snow, all shapes, all conditions not only perfectly lean groomed snow) and moguls". (I don't think of moguls as "groomers," btw.)

I guess you probably know the answer to the what the tradeoffs are between a narrower and a wider ski if you've spent time on both. However, if you've ONLY skied narrow skis like the Rossi and the Fischer you mention, in my view it would be good to try an ~85mm ski before you commit to it as your one-ski quiver. All other things being roughly equal, there is a big difference in agility and edge hold between a 70mm ski and an 85mm ski.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Do you feel that 84mm waist is somehow useless / not optimized on groomers (all snow, all shapes, all conditions not only perfectly lean groomed snow) and moguls?

Useless? Absolutely not. The VWerks are very good in almost all conditions. it is just that if you want a ski that will rip on groomers sub 80 is probably the better choice.
The Rossis mentioned here are excellent choice and there are great many other ski to choose from.

 

[martyg]

Stockli Montero AX if versatility is sought. SCs if truly groomer oriented.

 

[Ivan]

Fischer RC One GT, either 82 or 86 (depending on your needs and preferences), is a very solid option.

 

[Philpug]

Sooo.. you are looking for a wide narrow ski, a carver that is versatile.

• Völkl Deacon V-Werks (is 84 waist fine for full day frontside / groomers?)
• Völkl Deacon 76 Masters (the longer turn radius scares me a bit here)
• Atomic Q9 or 9.8 (not too heavy to turn? Red some mixed reviews here)

I think you are on track with these skis.

 

[Balsh]

the deacon 84 v-werks "feels" skinnier as its pretty nimble and fast edge to edge, but works great in skied out conditions due to width. it's the ski I ski most on piste, and I have 40-50 pairs of skis.

when I travel to alps and can only bring 1, its the deacon 84, same when I hit the slopes here. sometimes GF has this 1 ski maximum for short trips to slope
(I rent powskis, since if I bring powskis its never pow)

Thank you for the feedback, great to see that these ski really do the job on groomers and all type of snow. High performing versatile skis that can play this role of one pair fits all.

Sure, 84 is great if you're skiing a lot of "(all snow, all shapes, all conditions not only perfectly lean groomed snow) and moguls". (I don't think of moguls as "groomers," btw.)

I guess you probably know the answer to the what the tradeoffs are between a narrower and a wider ski if you've spent time on both. However, if you've ONLY skied narrow skis like the Rossi and the Fischer you mention, in my view it would be good to try an ~85mm ski before you commit to it as your one-ski quiver. All other things being roughly equal, there is a big difference in agility and edge hold between a 70mm ski and an 85mm ski.

Like the proposal with the Rossi and the thinking process you describe; to have a feeling about the brands to be opened to other products as there are plenty of robust options on this range. These Rossi you flagged have strong characteristics on top, so happy to have an additional suggestion.

Useless? Absolutely not. The VWerks are very good in almost all conditions. it is just that if you want a ski that will rip on groomers sub 80 is probably the better choice.
The Rossis mentioned here are excellent choice and there are great many other ski to choose from.

I see the point, making sure to bring the best out of the specifications chosen against our needs, can only make sense.

Stockli Montero AX if versatility is sought. SCs if truly groomer oriented.

Fischer RC One GT, either 82 or 86 (depending on your needs and preferences), is a very solid option.

Will have a closer look at the proposal and take good note if find any ski testing day in a shop that propose these ones.

 

[Balsh]

The VWerks are sweet ski. Only downside is they are quite noisy on very hard snow. Other than that they fit the bill well.

But first get the boots, this is the most important.

Indeed, boots are my main priority as my old Rossignol 90 Synergy Sensors 2 feel like wide comfortable flowers pots. Could spend 3 days straight in them thanks to the comfort, while not getting so much rigidity / response out of it which is the negative aspect.

Game changer could be here in what I am looking for, with more dynamic and best fitted boots in 110 or 120 flex. Maybe Rossi Race boots as liked the experience in Rossi boots comfort wise, will see directly in a relevant shop to try.