Expert ski pair / Groomers & Versatile

[Tony Storaro]

deacon 84/v-werks is a no holes barred ski as far as performance/stiffness/speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

Stiffness? You can't be serious. The VWerks are in that sense the most shocking ski I have been on. I mean when you hand flex them they are like bananas but the shocking part is that total lack of stiffness on hand flex does not translate to sloppiness on snow. At all! How did Volkl pull that off I will never know.

 

[Tony Storaro]

If too wide, guess the right range will be 76ish mm.

If your boots are too wide/big there is no ski on earth that will be right.

 

[Balsh]

Stiffness? You can't be serious. The VWerks are in that sense the most shocking ski I have been on. I mean when you hand flex them they are like bananas but the shocking part is that total lack of stiffness on hand flex does not translate to sloppiness on snow. At all! How did Volkl pull that off I will never know.

Shocking in a good way I hope !

 

[Tony Storaro]

Shocking in a good way I hope !

Yes

 

[Balsh]

Full day spent trying on ski boots in 110 to 130 flex, and it seems I have much more complex feet than expected. Most of them were perfect on the left and horrible on the right, much stronger foot. What a pleasure.

Main short listed one being the Atomic Hawx Prime S110, pending for them to arrive in 27/27.5 to see if it fits.
Pending for some Head Edge Lyt 110 as well, not the most sporty model but was wider for the foot while thiner for the calves which is great for me.
Salomon S Alpha 110 were fine as well, but needed thermo-forming from day 1 to lower a high compression point, let us see, still on the list as well.

The move from my highly comfortable 28.5 to 27/27.5 will be painful I am afraid. Hopefully rewarded on the pistes. Last option would be to go to a boot fitter so that we go for race models but with higher investment into comfort by making it more "tailor made" thanks to boot fitting.

 

[Quandary]

Go with a 130 boot. Better shell, better liner, better buckles. The shop can always soften the boots up if you need that.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Last option would be to go to a boot fitter

No. That’s the first option. Always was and always will be. Last option is to pick boots yourself.
And if you have no previous experience and don’t know what you are doing the chance of success is about 1%.

 

[Balsh]

No. That’s the first option. Always was and always will be. Last option is to pick boots yourself.
And if you have no previous experience and don’t know what you are doing the chance of success is about 1%.

I meant going through the process of boot fitting, not selecting the boots under full control and expertise of experienced specialist.

 

[Balsh]

Go with a 130 boot. Better shell, better liner, better buckles. The shop can always soften the boots up if you need that.

Strong difference between 110 and 130? Would the 130 remain versatile?

I only tried 110 and 120 at this stage, all the 120 felt garbage due to my feet. Will go to expert boot fitter next week end and try on some 130.

 

[Quandary]

The flex rating has nothing to do with how your foot feels in the boot. The shell structure drives that. First thing is you find the best boot you can afford that fits your foot. Then have the shell worked on to get the rest of the fit right. You can not get a truly great fitting boot without using a boot fitter that knows what they are doing. That starts with using them to find the best shell for you.

 

[markojp]

I was comfy and I assume less good skier in the past, now living close by the mountains I spend much more time on the pistes and my level and dedication importantly increased in less than two years. So this became a priority as this is pure non ....

For sure great skis, something I may adore on groomers, but the <70mm waist may be limiting the use on the full season. Or may need to be followed by another acquisition to have both skis, better on different more specialized conditions. Which is an alternative as well.

Ski boots are like driving gloves, not baseball mitts.

The eSpeed Pro would NOT be a good choice for you at your current level of skill and understanding. . Stick with your Deacon 84 thoughts.

 

[markojp]

Strong difference between 110 and 130? Would the 130 remain versatile?

I only tried 110 and 120 at this stage, all the 120 felt garbage due to my feet. Will go to expert boot fitter next week end and try on some 130.

See. A. Boot. Fitter.

You don't know what you don't know. There are lies, damn lies, and numbers on boot boxes. A good fitter will be an important part of your education.

 

[Balsh]

See. A. Boot. Fitter.

You don't know what you don't know. There are lies, damn lies, and numbers on boot boxes. A good fitter will be an important part of your education.

That is the plan - Already visited great shops last weekend but need more expertise there. So will invest time and money with the right professional to make the right choice.

 

[cloudymind]

i have no advices about boots, just buy the ones you feel better with.
as for the skis, if you are planning to do some 40 days/year i would definitively look for a pair of proper GS. i don't know the models you mentioned but i doubt they can come close to the performance of proper piste skis. also consider:
-snow in recent years has often been hard, i had to do the edges so many times. skis won't last too long
-variable conditions so having just 1 pair simply isn't enough
would say 1 GS + 1 for ruined snow or side-of-piste and also rent a SL for exercising.

i had a pair of head gs in 25 meters and loved them, super precise and confortable, they are a joy on steeper runs, good grip on ice. i tested some mid-level RC and they are simply something different.
if you plan to have a "do it all" ski and you don't go off piste then try something like rossignol LT, it's super easy and also quite good on ruined snow, or head speed, they allready are very agile.
if you prefer something carving-oriented try a proper high level one 65-70mm like atomic x9

 

[Michael V]

I'm always going to throw RENOUN (probably the Atlas 80) into the mix... Been skiing their skis for the last 6 years (Z90 and Endurance 88), and I love them. Versatile, great carving and awesomely skiable skis. The Atlas is on my list to try, but I suspect it is a Frontside killer at 80mm

 

[markojp]

i have no advices about boots, just buy the ones you feel better with.
as for the skis, if you are planning to do some 40 days/year i would definitively look for a pair of proper GS. i don't know the models you mentioned but i doubt they can come close to the performance of proper piste skis. also consider:
-snow in recent years has often been hard, i had to do the edges so many times. skis won't last too long
-variable conditions so having just 1 pair simply isn't enough
would say 1 GS + 1 for ruined snow or side-of-piste and also rent a SL for exercising.

i had a pair of head gs in 25 meters and loved them, super precise and confortable, they are a joy on steeper runs, good grip on ice. i tested some mid-level RC and they are simply something different.
if you plan to have a "do it all" ski and you don't go off piste then try something like rossignol LT, it's super easy and also quite good on ruined snow, or head speed, they allready are very agile.
if you prefer something carving-oriented try a proper high level one 65-70mm like atomic x9

You realize the OP isn't likely quite there skill set wise, no?

(Which 'Head Speed'? Super shape eSpeed? Rebels eSpeed, or eSpeed Pro? A head product for the OP to build skills? eRally.... maybe a V10. )

 

[Balsh]

i have no advices about boots, just buy the ones you feel better with.
as for the skis, if you are planning to do some 40 days/year i would definitively look for a pair of proper GS. i don't know the models you mentioned but i doubt they can come close to the performance of proper piste skis. also consider:
-snow in recent years has often been hard, i had to do the edges so many times. skis won't last too long
-variable conditions so having just 1 pair simply isn't enough
would say 1 GS + 1 for ruined snow or side-of-piste and also rent a SL for exercising.

i had a pair of head gs in 25 meters and loved them, super precise and confortable, they are a joy on steeper runs, good grip on ice. i tested some mid-level RC and they are simply something different.
if you plan to have a "do it all" ski and you don't go off piste then try something like rossignol LT, it's super easy and also quite good on ruined snow, or head speed, they allready are very agile.
if you prefer something carving-oriented try a proper high level one 65-70mm like atomic x9

For the boots will anyway go to a race oriented boot fitter, living close by the mountain so several strong relevant choices out there. Will solve the question in the most pragmatic manner.

For the skis I will simply test some before deciding, only personal feeling on real conditions will help to decide. I might over think it otherwise, as there are so many great choices and options in these ranges. Then for sure with time might acquire 2-3 pairs to adapt to the conditions if feel the need to, step by step. Thank you for the perspectives, appreciated.

Radius of 15-17m remains the main target for me at this stage. Realizing that all mountain skiis, even if groomers oriented, will never replace proper SL/GS skiis.

I'm always going to throw RENOUN (probably the Atlas 80) into the mix... Been skiing their skis for the last 6 years (Z90 and Endurance 88), and I love them. Versatile, great carving and awesomely skiable skis. The Atlas is on my list to try, but I suspect it is a Frontside killer at 80mm

First tome hearing about the brands, must say these are not common skiis to see in the Alps. Thanks for sharing.

You realize the OP isn't likely quite there skill set wise, no?

(Which 'Head Speed'? Super shape eSpeed? Rebels eSpeed, or eSpeed Pro? A head product for the OP to build skills? eRally.... maybe a V10. )

Dumb question, not being English native nor aware, what does OP stands for?

 

[François Pugh]

OP = original poster, i.e., the thread starter.

 

[cloudymind]

You realize the OP isn't likely quite there skill set wise, no?

(Which 'Head Speed'? Super shape eSpeed? Rebels eSpeed, or eSpeed Pro? A head product for the OP to build skills? eRally.... maybe a V10. )

he probably isn't now, but allready has experience. also 40 days is much more than average and with an instructor i think he will soon reach a level good enough.
here in europe snow is often lacking, so you find hard artificial, it later melts in moguls during the day, sometimes really iced. i had a pair of cheap rossi pursuit that used in semi-offpiste but i trashed them in 5 days and became uncontrollable, i also had elan allmountain and were simply not enough. i rented a few racecarve skis, ok-ish meh... not any better than the allmountain.
tried the rossignol LT ad are ok, head rebels speed also ok. but then i tested proper head GS and could finally feel really OK. SL are also useful for exercising, but i fear for my knees.

in my opinion with 40 days you must have some proper GS or SL, ok maybe you can start with a pair of allmountain but then buy a proper GS or "similarGS"
also consider that 40 days is probably near the average duration of a modern ski,

 

[The Retired Skier]

Don't leave out the the Rossignol Experience 82 Ti. Just about every ski reviewer out there rates it at or very near the near the top for a frontside ski.

The common denominators seem to be a bit of versatility along with basically no speed limit while carving to go along with a very user-friendly design. Even the most experienced racers seemed to not be able to find a speed limit while intermediates can even access it.