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Exploring third vehicle options: bigger and badder
- Thread starter Monique
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What about the Excursion? That's bigger than the expedition right?
We go through this every few years, or more frequently, and it gets more frustrating as the available car inventory changes.
A 2008 Outback XT has 65 cubic feet of volume, with the rear seatbacks down. Daughter owns one, and our family has had others of that generation. I can absolutely understand what @Monique loves the XT. Great car for Denver/Boulder, and the mountains. The turbo makes a big difference at altitude.
Great car in the snow. Very functional. Nice size. Fun to drive. Now, having owned a couple with that engine, I wouldn't be planning on it being very reliable and "reasonable" much past 150-160K miles. Every one of ours has needed a turbo well before her current 144K, and I think she might be lucky in that respect. Now having said that, somebody with an Outback XT with 350K will probably weigh in that they have the original turbo. There is a point at which they need a lot of care, and much is not inexpensive. If you are on the original Turbo at 150K miles, most techs would say that you are lucky and would be selling you on the need to replace it.
So, I would be keeping that mileage in mind with the Outback. You may drive it into the ground after a longer life, and sell it to a shop in Denver to have them rebuild it and resell it. The good news.....there will be a market for a manual XT, even if it needs a new engine, and who knows what else. So driving it until death is not a terrible plan, particularly considering where you live.
If you just love the car, and want to get a new{er} replacement, I would look at a new, maybe a CPO, maybe lightly used Forester XT. You can't get it with a manual, but the transmission is a good one. And it has the 2.5L turbo. They are a pretty neat car. My wife swore that she would never be caught dead driving a Forester, but has flipped a bit on that one, based on the current design. It's still bigger and taller than a 2008 Outback.
I'm assuming that her husband will keep the 330xi. Is that car a stick? There are a gazillion 330 and 328 BMW's on the market. They don't hold their value terribly well. If she {or he} were contemplating selling it, or trading it, they might be disappointed in the numbers. We have somebody in our family who bought a 2009 328xi wagon, in perfect condition for less money that she sold a 2006 Outback with almost 100K more miles. Hmmm. Sold the Outback in ski land. I'd keep the 330xi, and let him love it, while she keeps her wrappers, etc. out of it. I eased up on that at about the time that I met my wife, 40 years ago. I can't obsess over trash, and coffee spills. But I "get" that some guys do.
Now, as far as big beasts go, we have owned three Land Cruisers. For us, they work. Two drivers, three vehicles. That is the ski vehicle, tows a boat, etc. We buy them used, and load on a ton of miles.
We have NEVER had the third row of seats in the vehicle. I fact, I sold the first two sets {the third row is two seats in a LC.}
We have also owned two Suburbans. A close friend drives a GMC Yukon Denali. The short wheelbase, not the XL. I think this is her fourth one. It's a great vehicle. I'm impressed with ALL of the Yukon/Suburban family. We only moved into a LC when the quality of the Chevy Suburban was at it's all time lowest. Late nineties. WE had a great 1995, then a lemon of a 1998, and a not good replacement. Our next door neighbor was our dealer. We probably blew it by trading the 1995.
I recently rented one, a Yukon XL, and it was really nice. In every way. Our Suburbans had the "barn doors" in the rear, which I'm 99.9% sure is no longer an option. Loved those, but I like the current tailgate. When we had ours, the third row seat was out of it quite a lot. The "truck" had great cargo room for a three seat vehicle and was just cavernous with the seat out.
We also have a friend who always has a Suburban as his company vehicle. When it's two years old, it moves to his wife, and her Suburban then becomes their third vehicle, for their teenage and college age drivers. They have been doing that for years.
I think those vehicles are darn good, and they can be bought "right." From what I'm told, they are pretty reasonable to operate, repair wise. Gas mileage? Not great, but better than they once were. And maybe as good as the XT, on cheaper gas. Plus, you can pretty much double your 300 mile target range per tank.
I personally would never buy the short wheelbase model. It takes about two weeks to get used to the overall length of the XL, and it drives the exact same, IMO, as the short wheelbase model. They drive very well. For me, no downside to the bigger model.
My hunch is that if you have not taken one for a drive, you might be impressed. Might think that it would be great to own one? And if you're like my friends, you might even put on an aftermarket exhaust to enjoy a really nice American V8 rumble.
Both of the couples who I have mentioned have roof boxes on their Suburbans. Yeah, not so garage friendly. The carry a folding step to get into them.
Our son rented an Expedition a couple of years ago as one of the vehicles on a race trip {he's a coach}, and that was a very nice vehicle as well. They did a lot of driving {2000+ miles} and he was impressed. They were with us for a week, and I had a chance to drive it. And again, a lot of room.
Now, if you want me to sell you out of a Suburban, in into a Land Cruiser, I can easily do that. You can buy a LandCruiser for $25K, have it look brand new, and drive it almost forever. I think you'd be sick of it before you hit 400K or more miles. Thought I know of somebody with 550K on his, with no intention of selling. The LC holds a LOT of cargo, and it the most reliable bullet proof vehicle that I have ever come across. Between my wife and me, I think we have owned 50 plus cars.
Replacing that particular Outback will not be easy. If you want more of "a wagon" than a Forester, I'd be looking at an Alltrack to start.
If you husband's 330xi is an automatic, and he might consider a wagon, I would consider a used Audi A6 Avant, with the 3.0T {Turbo} engine. With minor modification that car can generate a ton of power, in a nice subtle way. It's Quattro for snow, it's a nice size, beautiful fit and finish. No stick. But a good auto trans. Another great car that Audi stopped producing. It's on our short list. But sounds like your husband might not like it getting too "gritty" on weekends.
Is that confusing enough??
A 2008 Outback XT has 65 cubic feet of volume, with the rear seatbacks down. Daughter owns one, and our family has had others of that generation. I can absolutely understand what @Monique loves the XT. Great car for Denver/Boulder, and the mountains. The turbo makes a big difference at altitude.
Great car in the snow. Very functional. Nice size. Fun to drive. Now, having owned a couple with that engine, I wouldn't be planning on it being very reliable and "reasonable" much past 150-160K miles. Every one of ours has needed a turbo well before her current 144K, and I think she might be lucky in that respect. Now having said that, somebody with an Outback XT with 350K will probably weigh in that they have the original turbo. There is a point at which they need a lot of care, and much is not inexpensive. If you are on the original Turbo at 150K miles, most techs would say that you are lucky and would be selling you on the need to replace it.
So, I would be keeping that mileage in mind with the Outback. You may drive it into the ground after a longer life, and sell it to a shop in Denver to have them rebuild it and resell it. The good news.....there will be a market for a manual XT, even if it needs a new engine, and who knows what else. So driving it until death is not a terrible plan, particularly considering where you live.
If you just love the car, and want to get a new{er} replacement, I would look at a new, maybe a CPO, maybe lightly used Forester XT. You can't get it with a manual, but the transmission is a good one. And it has the 2.5L turbo. They are a pretty neat car. My wife swore that she would never be caught dead driving a Forester, but has flipped a bit on that one, based on the current design. It's still bigger and taller than a 2008 Outback.
I'm assuming that her husband will keep the 330xi. Is that car a stick? There are a gazillion 330 and 328 BMW's on the market. They don't hold their value terribly well. If she {or he} were contemplating selling it, or trading it, they might be disappointed in the numbers. We have somebody in our family who bought a 2009 328xi wagon, in perfect condition for less money that she sold a 2006 Outback with almost 100K more miles. Hmmm. Sold the Outback in ski land. I'd keep the 330xi, and let him love it, while she keeps her wrappers, etc. out of it. I eased up on that at about the time that I met my wife, 40 years ago. I can't obsess over trash, and coffee spills. But I "get" that some guys do.
Now, as far as big beasts go, we have owned three Land Cruisers. For us, they work. Two drivers, three vehicles. That is the ski vehicle, tows a boat, etc. We buy them used, and load on a ton of miles.
We have NEVER had the third row of seats in the vehicle. I fact, I sold the first two sets {the third row is two seats in a LC.}
We have also owned two Suburbans. A close friend drives a GMC Yukon Denali. The short wheelbase, not the XL. I think this is her fourth one. It's a great vehicle. I'm impressed with ALL of the Yukon/Suburban family. We only moved into a LC when the quality of the Chevy Suburban was at it's all time lowest. Late nineties. WE had a great 1995, then a lemon of a 1998, and a not good replacement. Our next door neighbor was our dealer. We probably blew it by trading the 1995.
I recently rented one, a Yukon XL, and it was really nice. In every way. Our Suburbans had the "barn doors" in the rear, which I'm 99.9% sure is no longer an option. Loved those, but I like the current tailgate. When we had ours, the third row seat was out of it quite a lot. The "truck" had great cargo room for a three seat vehicle and was just cavernous with the seat out.
We also have a friend who always has a Suburban as his company vehicle. When it's two years old, it moves to his wife, and her Suburban then becomes their third vehicle, for their teenage and college age drivers. They have been doing that for years.
I think those vehicles are darn good, and they can be bought "right." From what I'm told, they are pretty reasonable to operate, repair wise. Gas mileage? Not great, but better than they once were. And maybe as good as the XT, on cheaper gas. Plus, you can pretty much double your 300 mile target range per tank.
I personally would never buy the short wheelbase model. It takes about two weeks to get used to the overall length of the XL, and it drives the exact same, IMO, as the short wheelbase model. They drive very well. For me, no downside to the bigger model.
My hunch is that if you have not taken one for a drive, you might be impressed. Might think that it would be great to own one? And if you're like my friends, you might even put on an aftermarket exhaust to enjoy a really nice American V8 rumble.
Both of the couples who I have mentioned have roof boxes on their Suburbans. Yeah, not so garage friendly. The carry a folding step to get into them.
Our son rented an Expedition a couple of years ago as one of the vehicles on a race trip {he's a coach}, and that was a very nice vehicle as well. They did a lot of driving {2000+ miles} and he was impressed. They were with us for a week, and I had a chance to drive it. And again, a lot of room.
Now, if you want me to sell you out of a Suburban, in into a Land Cruiser, I can easily do that. You can buy a LandCruiser for $25K, have it look brand new, and drive it almost forever. I think you'd be sick of it before you hit 400K or more miles. Thought I know of somebody with 550K on his, with no intention of selling. The LC holds a LOT of cargo, and it the most reliable bullet proof vehicle that I have ever come across. Between my wife and me, I think we have owned 50 plus cars.
Replacing that particular Outback will not be easy. If you want more of "a wagon" than a Forester, I'd be looking at an Alltrack to start.
If you husband's 330xi is an automatic, and he might consider a wagon, I would consider a used Audi A6 Avant, with the 3.0T {Turbo} engine. With minor modification that car can generate a ton of power, in a nice subtle way. It's Quattro for snow, it's a nice size, beautiful fit and finish. No stick. But a good auto trans. Another great car that Audi stopped producing. It's on our short list. But sounds like your husband might not like it getting too "gritty" on weekends.
Is that confusing enough??
You're right, except for the higher centre of gravity, even worse handling, lack of sufficient luggage space when carrying six passengers (most of the SUVs) and worse gas milage (the ones with luggage space).
PS just noticed, that '84's for sale too!
I bought a used Yukon (not xl) for under 10k its an 01 but it only had 70k miles and in great shape! I love it but I only have 1 dog so it fits all my gear nicely. So I would recommend a Tahoe or Yukon reg. or XL Good luck!
They are licensed as passenger vehicles. The wife was mad when she had to get rid of her truck plates when she got the Explorer years ago and the dealer told her it was a station wagon. It isnt a truck, it is a station wagon. If you are going to tow, the Expedition is the last one as far as I know to come with a full frame. Makes the ride harder but you can tow like a truck.
They dont make it anymore.
Excursion, RIP 2005. That was one huge vehicle. We owned a Land Cruiser. Next door ski neighbor drove an Excursion. One night he said "You know, if I hit a moose in that thing it would be like you hitting a squirrel in your LC." They ONLY used it on ski weekends, as it was just too big for either of them to comfortably drive as a normal family vehicle. Theirs was a diesel. Not a particularly fun thing to drive, as I recall.
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That's correct but they also don't make xterras, yukons or elements any longer but i thought used vehicles were still on the table.
Yeah they were giant and their gas mileage made my wrangler look like a fuel efficient vehicle lol. I felt the suburban was huge though, can't imagine any bigger.
Yukon is still available in Canada??That's correct but they also don't make xterras, yukons or elements any longer but i thought used vehicles were still on the table.
Yukons are still made, and branded that way.
I think there may be some confusion between the Ford Excursion and the Expedition line.
The latest generation of the Expedition, with the longer wheel base, is a very big vehicle. Similar size to a full sized Suburban.
Excursion was basically a big F250 Truck with the passenger body. My brothers a F250 twin cab, full sized bed, with a cap on it. The fancy King Ranch Trim. Diesel.
Pretty huge, and basically the same size as the Excursion. Serious family or work crew hauler.
I think there may be some confusion between the Ford Excursion and the Expedition line.
The latest generation of the Expedition, with the longer wheel base, is a very big vehicle. Similar size to a full sized Suburban.
Excursion was basically a big F250 Truck with the passenger body. My brothers a F250 twin cab, full sized bed, with a cap on it. The fancy King Ranch Trim. Diesel.
Pretty huge, and basically the same size as the Excursion. Serious family or work crew hauler.
Oops when I said suburban I meant expedition which is comparable but a different manufacturer. Expeditions/suburbans are huge but very functional. I heard one of the hugest issues with the excursion was the ridiculously terrible gas mileage.
Glad the Yukon is still made, I loved my Denali.
Glad the Yukon is still made, I loved my Denali.
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A commercial work truck spec Ford Transit Connect, long wheel base and low roof, with 4x4 and the small diesel motor, along with a removable bench for the rare occasions where you need seating for more than 2 people, is the perfect functionality, price, utility, parking, roof box, and garage height solution to your question.
Alas, it does not exist from the manufacturer, and from what I can tell, does not exist in the aftermarket either.
Alas, it does not exist from the manufacturer, and from what I can tell, does not exist in the aftermarket either.
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In all candor, the question reminds me of the cycling conundrum, at least as regards recreational racers and above, of which I have some experience:
“You can have lightweight, durable, and inexpensive. Now pick two.”
You want utilitarian, adaptable space, sporty, fun to drive, relatively inexpensive, fun to drive, easy to maintain, readily available, easy to park, good for dogs, etc, etc, etc.
I want the same thing, but it does not exist. In the real world, pick 3 or 4 of those, and then be prepared to pay for the privilege ....
“You can have lightweight, durable, and inexpensive. Now pick two.”
You want utilitarian, adaptable space, sporty, fun to drive, relatively inexpensive, fun to drive, easy to maintain, readily available, easy to park, good for dogs, etc, etc, etc.
I want the same thing, but it does not exist. In the real world, pick 3 or 4 of those, and then be prepared to pay for the privilege ....
I have this conversation with a co-worker every now and again..wants the best of this, the more durable of that..but wants it for 20% of real cost.
Hey all, sorry, my master list will need to wait - I am dead tired for some reason after skiing like 5 runs today (but it *was* with the pugski crew ...)
Hmm. Maybe I drive it more sedately or something?
It's definitely the original turbo. Are there warning signs of impending implosion? I get all the prescribed maintenance, go to the dealership for service, and have never had anyone suggest that I need to do anything about the turbo.
And what are we talking for parts and labor for the dealership to replace that?
(I just looked up this acronym. How important is this in the real world?)
Yeah, it's a stick.
Boooo. I really like that feature. I'll have to do some research and find out whether I can get the combination of features I want on a used one that is not too pricy.
Hmmmmm. Somehow I thought I was just in my friend's LC and it only had two rows of seats and cargo. Am I confused?
Yeah, I dunno. It really depends on if I can sell the idea of a third vehicle to my husband. If I can do that, then if the Outback needs to be replaced, I have a lot more play with the parameters. I do like the wagon form. And that sexy scoop ....
Err .... did you read the part where I am looking for a THIRD vehicle so that I don't have to look for all of those in one vehicle? In particular, easy to park is where I threw up my hands and decided I would need to keep the Outback and get a supplemental vehicle for other needs.
As @Muleski suggested, my current vehicle actually does almost everything in that list. But it's stick and the seats are uncomfortable for my husband's broad shoulders, so as it ages, I'm looking for something to supplement, and I would like that something to basically be a tool shed on wheels, in terms of space.
Hmm. Maybe I drive it more sedately or something?
It's definitely the original turbo. Are there warning signs of impending implosion? I get all the prescribed maintenance, go to the dealership for service, and have never had anyone suggest that I need to do anything about the turbo.
And what are we talking for parts and labor for the dealership to replace that?
(I just looked up this acronym. How important is this in the real world?)
Yeah, it's a stick.
Boooo. I really like that feature. I'll have to do some research and find out whether I can get the combination of features I want on a used one that is not too pricy.
Hmmmmm. Somehow I thought I was just in my friend's LC and it only had two rows of seats and cargo. Am I confused?
Yeah, I dunno. It really depends on if I can sell the idea of a third vehicle to my husband. If I can do that, then if the Outback needs to be replaced, I have a lot more play with the parameters. I do like the wagon form. And that sexy scoop ....
Err .... did you read the part where I am looking for a THIRD vehicle so that I don't have to look for all of those in one vehicle? In particular, easy to park is where I threw up my hands and decided I would need to keep the Outback and get a supplemental vehicle for other needs.
As @Muleski suggested, my current vehicle actually does almost everything in that list. But it's stick and the seats are uncomfortable for my husband's broad shoulders, so as it ages, I'm looking for something to supplement, and I would like that something to basically be a tool shed on wheels, in terms of space.
I thought the son and I were built weird, but I cant do 3H in the daughters outback without being in pain and he said the same thing at 30+years younger. The seats suck. I think they are made for 5'7" 130lb people ONLY.
Maybe. My husband says the new ones are fine. Of course, he hasn't been in one for three hours that I know of. He can do it - I just get to hear about it. Every time.
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