Looking to find the Lowest Volume 100-110 Flex Race Boot

[Andy Mink]

days like yesterday and today haven't happened in several years.

That's what makes it hard. You don't get to practice like groomers or bumps. Powder like this year isn't as prevalent as ski ads would have one think!

 

[KingGrump]

It's getting them on a powder day that's hard. Which, truthfully, days like yesterday and today haven't happened in several years.

Ski bumps with them. Skiing a flowy line in the bumps is very similar to powder skiing. Keeps the legs soft and supple.

 

[AmyPJ]

That's what makes it hard. You don't get to practice like groomers or bumps. Powder like this year isn't as prevalent as ski ads would have one think!

Ski bumps with them. Skiing a flowy line in the bumps is very similar to powder skiing. Keeps the legs soft and supple.

Ski bumps with them. Skiing a flowy line in the bumps is very similar to powder skiing. Keeps the legs soft and supple.

Don’t know what happened to the quotes but anyhoo, the powder has been getting pounded into oblivion so fast, it’s hard to find any untracked after one run.

And bumps—been doing more and more but oof, those old defensive habits are hard to kick. I have been doing a lot more short radius turns though. I forgot to put the bounce into my skiing today in the powder.

 

[Tony S]

untracked

So spoiled.

 

[ScottB]

Makes total sense about the lack of platform to push against. The visual does not work for my brain but most of Deb’s videos do so I’ll watch that. I was pretty frustrated today!

I personally agree with everything @KingGrump says, but I think there is more to consider. I am in the Redster CS130, which I would guess is slightly softer than your STI boot Amy, although are you in the 130 or 110? Anyway, my initial runs in moguls were not good due to boot stiffness and having them really tight around my shins/calves. Just loosening the two calf buckles (maybe just the top one and the power strap) to give me a little play really helped. The boots were restricting my natural movements. I am quite comfortable in bumps, so I knew it was the arrow, not the Indian. So lesson 1. don't restrict movement too much when in stiff boots. There is a video on the web about skiing in 150 flex boots, and he advises what I did. (loosen fit around calf to allow some play) When I got in powder, found my COM and stance to be funky. I couldn't shift weight from toes to heel very well without kicking my butt out and feeling weird. Changed forward lean from 18 deg to 16 deg and voila, everything felt good again and butt came back in, legs said "thank you" as well. At some point I also cut the saddle of my boots to soften them a bit as well, probably dropped 10 in stiffness. 140 to 130. All is happy and working well with my skiing technique(s). The 18 deg lean felt great on groomers, especially with carving skis. As KG says, in powder the snow doesn't push back the same, so adjustments are needed. I was doing 3D turns in powder, but it wasn't enough to counteract my boots putting too much force on my tips, unless I shifted the load to my thighs, which made them start complaining after a few runs. All is back in balance now with some tweaks.

In terms of flex stiffness, I think for most people, there is a range that will work for them. But add stiffness, forward lean, and reduced cuff play from snug boots and it can all add up to restricting the movements that are needed. It can also be, as KG suggests, not doing the proper movements for the snow conditions (the Indian) which is where a knowledgeable observer really helps you to sort it out. Back to flex stiffness, I tend to just bounce or flex my boots in the store (or at home) and make a judgement. I know what feels good, so I soften till it feels right (by grinding the saddle). I have never been in too soft a boot, that screams at me right away. They do stiffen with temp, so sometimes what feels right in the store gets too stiff in the cold, but I wait till spring to make any grinding judgements. (don't want them too soft when spring comes)

My CS are the first boot I have owned where I can over tighten the cuff, or restrict my shin/ankle flex too much. All previous boots had play there not matter how tight. Its a new "adjustment" I have to pay attention to now. And its not just cutting off blood flow (did that and feet got really cold) its actually a combination of powerstrap tightness and top buckle tightness that dictates my ankle flex allowed by the boot (without even flexing the shell). I need a little play in the fit (maybe more now that the shell is stiff and I can't flex it quite as much as previous boots) or I can't get the max flex point that I need for my body mechanics.

Hope this is understandable and it helps.

 

[AmyPJ]

I personally agree with everything @KingGrump says, but I think there is more to consider. I am in the Redster CS130, which I would guess is slightly softer than your STI boot Amy, although are you in the 130 or 110? Anyway, my initial runs in moguls were not good due to boot stiffness and having them really tight around my shins/calves. Just loosening the two calf buckles (maybe just the top one and the power strap) to give me a little play really helped. The boots were restricting my natural movements. I am quite comfortable in bumps, so I knew it was the arrow, not the Indian. So lesson 1. don't restrict movement too much when in stiff boots. There is a video on the web about skiing in 150 flex boots, and he advises what I did. (loosen fit around calf to allow some play) When I got in powder, found my COM and stance to be funky. I couldn't shift weight from toes to heel very well without kicking my butt out and feeling weird. Changed forward lean from 18 deg to 16 deg and voila, everything felt good again and butt came back in, legs said "thank you" as well. At some point I also cut the saddle of my boots to soften them a bit as well, probably dropped 10 in stiffness. 140 to 130. All is happy and working well with my skiing technique(s). The 18 deg lean felt great on groomers, especially with carving skis. As KG says, in powder the snow doesn't push back the same, so adjustments are needed. I was doing 3D turns in powder, but it wasn't enough to counteract my boots putting too much force on my tips, unless I shifted the load to my thighs, which made them start complaining after a few runs. All is back in balance now with some tweaks.

In terms of flex stiffness, I think for most people, there is a range that will work for them. But add stiffness, forward lean, and reduced cuff play from snug boots and it can all add up to restricting the movements that are needed. It can also be, as KG suggests, not doing the proper movements for the snow conditions (the Indian) which is where a knowledgeable observer really helps you to sort it out. Back to flex stiffness, I tend to just bounce or flex my boots in the store (or at home) and make a judgement. I know what feels good, so I soften till it feels right (by grinding the saddle). I have never been in too soft a boot, that screams at me right away. They do stiffen with temp, so sometimes what feels right in the store gets too stiff in the cold, but I wait till spring to make any grinding judgements. (don't want them too soft when spring comes)

My CS are the first boot I have owned where I can over tighten the cuff, or restrict my shin/ankle flex too much. All previous boots had play there not matter how tight. Its a new "adjustment" I have to pay attention to now. And its not just cutting off blood flow (did that and feet got really cold) its actually a combination of powerstrap tightness and top buckle tightness that dictates my ankle flex allowed by the boot (without even flexing the shell). I need a little play in the fit (maybe more now that the shell is stiff and I can't flex it quite as much as previous boots) or I can't get the max flex point that I need for my body mechanics.

Hope this is understandable and it helps.

Totally understandable and helpful, thanks! I’m in the 110 flex and I believe the CS is actually a tad thicker?? Egads the thought of changing forward lean based on conditions is mind boggling but yeah, maybe a high performance boot makes those things even more crucial? Low-volume feet suck, I’ll say that for sure.

 

[Jerez]

I believe I have the same boots as @AmyPJ

I am a little old lady...less than 5'4" and weigh in at 117 lbs fully clothed. I do not claim to be a super skier. I do not find these boots to feel stiff. I do leave a little wiggle room at the top of the cuff, but very little. (Any thoughts on maybe working to adjust the liner to get the cuff tight to your shins may have backfired?)

No issues with the boots feeling too stiff in bumps/powder. They are, as Amy noted, very precise. Which can take some adjustment and that leads me to....

@KingGrump wrote something really important. Keep the legs soft and supple. Super important IMO and not easy to do, especially in bumps. My advice would be to make sure you don't over terrain yourself lest you reinforce the defensive ((bracing?) moves that happen to all of us when we do that. Hard to get "flow" going when survival takes precedence.

Tracked out powder is not powder BTW; it is crud. There are multiple threads on that.

 

[Tony S]

I do not claim to be a super skier.

Hmmmm. You're up there. The fact that you don't claim it means squat.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I had a Zipfit in 2003 with the same flimsy tongue issue. I even had a back and forth email with Sven at the time. There was some “manufacturing issues” with the liners during those coffee named liners. Cappucino, espresso, I forget. What they really were- macchiato.

Here we are, 20 years later, same thing. That’s not an amazing product.
Fwiw, Intuition had the same issue with their non race tongues. You can feel the thing bend over the cuff. Terrible.

It’s a joke when low intermediate cheap boots have better tongues than expensive aftermarket liners.

I’m not convinced fitting by mail is appropriate for her. More likely to be an angst spiral.
If everything was figured out, then maybe.

Dodge boots are made from a limited number of molds for the clog. They will not create a mold just for one customer. None of the molds they have are particularly narrow. But if you send them measurements, they certainly will send you a boot. It may or may not fit.

I have a close friend who needed a very narrow last and ordered from Dodge. A highly recommended bootfitter in VT took the measurements and served as the intermediary for this sale. The boot that Dodge sent was no where near narrow. My friend sent it back and did get a full refund.

My conclusion: measurements by mail just won't do it for someone with complex fit issues.

 

[Tony S]

Who names a bespoke custom gear company "Dodge?" It's like naming your gourmet restaurant "Oscar Mayer." In any case it sounds like they have a way with b o l o g n a.

 

[AmyPJ]

I believe I have the same boots as @AmyPJ

I am a little old lady...less than 5'4" and weigh in at 117 lbs fully clothed. I do not claim to be a super skier. I do not find these boots to feel stiff. I do leave a little wiggle room at the top of the cuff, but very little. (Any thoughts on maybe working to adjust the liner to get the cuff tight to your shins may have backfired?)

No issues with the boots feeling too stiff in bumps/powder. They are, as Amy noted, very precise. Which can take some adjustment and that leads me to....

@KingGrump wrote something really important. Keep the legs soft and supple. Super important IMO and not easy to do, especially in bumps. My advice would be to make sure you don't over terrain yourself lest you reinforce the defensive ((bracing?) moves that happen to all of us when we do that. Hard to get "flow" going when survival takes precedence.

Tracked out powder is not powder BTW; it is crud. There are multiple threads on that.

Yep, we are in the same boot so your feedback means a lot to me. I have not found them too stiff, either, although I did have one day when it was about 5 degrees that they kind of kicked my butt. I'm a tad heavier and am almost at AARP eligible age

I did think about the tongue being maybe pushing me back a bit, but there again, it hasn't bothered me anywhere else and it sure does snug my foot down nicely, so if I play with forward lean from that perspective, I'd be more inclined to go with a thicker spoiler for powder. I don't love loosening the cuff buckles especially since I think I've found a really perfect spot for them and for the first time, am not constantly fiddling with them throughout the day, BUT it might be worth trying in deep powder. Yesterday was crazy deep in spots, as in the deepest I've ever skied, and it really threw me for a loop and I probably would have been better served on my "cheater" 106s vs the 93s. I also realize now that I needed to be up-unweighting more. I want a do-over! It was skied out so fast, I didn't get a chance to have that do-over.

I'll definitely try to remind myself to stay soft. The defensive moves are really, really hard to kick. Nearly impossible in flat light.

 

[geepers]

 

[AmyPJ]

Someone shared this earlier and it’s a great watch for sure.

 

[geepers]

Someone shared this earlier and it’s a great watch for sure.

I shudda checked!

 

[Tony S]

Yep, we are in the same boot so your feedback means a lot to me. I have not found them too stiff, either, although I did have one day when it was about 5 degrees that they kind of kicked my butt. I'm a tad heavier and am almost at AARP eligible age

I did think about the tongue being maybe pushing me back a bit, but there again, it hasn't bothered me anywhere else and it sure does snug my foot down nicely, so if I play with forward lean from that perspective, I'd be more inclined to go with a thicker spoiler for powder. I don't love loosening the cuff buckles especially since I think I've found a really perfect spot for them and for the first time, am not constantly fiddling with them throughout the day, BUT it might be worth trying in deep powder. Yesterday was crazy deep in spots, as in the deepest I've ever skied, and it really threw me for a loop and I probably would have been better served on my "cheater" 106s vs the 93s. I also realize now that I needed to be up-unweighting more. I want a do-over! It was skied out so fast, I didn't get a chance to have that do-over.

I'll definitely try to remind myself to stay soft. The defensive moves are really, really hard to kick. Nearly impossible in flat light.

There are a lot of non-analytical people out there who could definitely benefit from the fine-toothed comb treatment when it comes to their skiing. I'm not sure you are one of them (he said with a little understatement).

Powder is the snow equivalent of Champagne. Yes, it can be nuanced and complicated, if it's good. But mostly it's there to snort first and think about later.

Correspondingly, often the best "one thing to keep in mind" for powder is simply "point 'em!" If you're getting bogged down, point 'em more. And yes, the 106s would be a better choice. When you gonna bust 'em out if not at a time like this? Are they in the china hutch with your family's heirloom dishes?

 

[AmyPJ]

There are a lot of non-analytical people out there who could definitely benefit from the fine-toothed comb treatment when it comes to their skiing. I'm not sure you are one of them (he said with a little understatement).

Powder is the snow equivalent of Champagne. Yes, it can be nuanced and complicated, if it's good. But mostly it's there to snort first and think about later.

Correspondingly, often the best "one thing to keep in mind" for powder is simply "point 'em!" If you're getting bogged down, point 'em more. And yes, the 106s would be a better choice. When you gonna bust 'em out if not at a time like this? Are they in the china hutch with your family's heirloom dishes?

But champagne gives me a headache!
I don't like the fatter skis once things get tracked out, PLUS they grossly under-reported how much snow had actually fallen overnight. I had anticipated sloppy seconds and there was plenty of that, but also some incredible fresh stuff (likely due to the wind filling in the tracks from the prior day, then fresh falling on top.)

 

[Tony S]

But champagne gives me a headache!

This explains so much.

 

[ScottB]

Totally understandable and helpful, thanks! I’m in the 110 flex and I believe the CS is actually a tad thicker?? Egads the thought of changing forward lean based on conditions is mind boggling but yeah, maybe a high performance boot makes those things even more crucial? Low-volume feet suck, I’ll say that for sure.

I didn't mean to imply boot forward lean should be changed based on conditions. I just found that 18 deg was to much for me in powder, so now I use 16 for everything. 16 works fine too for non powder. The latest Blister review of the Atomic Hawx Ultra does talk about changing forward lean based on conditions, but I guess it's a simple change on that not. not on the CS boot I am in.

 

[WadeHoliday]

hum,
I agree, don't change forward lean for conditions, boots should be the constant imo, skis and snow can change.. both for better and worse.

maybe your 106 is the wrong one if you don't like them in the "sloppy seconds".
I think wider skis make the biggest difference in allowing more "freedom" in the chop than the untracked itself, also, so much of the components that make a ski fun in deep chop are attributes besides width..
is your ski length the same on your 93 and 106? longer skis also make chopped snow more entertaining, imo.

I'm glad you found a great boot fit, now you can move toward where it's movements and the moment, not the shoe...
cheers!
W

 

[AmyPJ]

hum,
I agree, don't change forward lean for conditions, boots should be the constant imo, skis and snow can change.. both for better and worse.

maybe your 106 is the wrong one if you don't like them in the "sloppy seconds".
I think wider skis make the biggest difference in allowing more "freedom" in the chop than the untracked itself, also, so much of the components that make a ski fun in deep chop are attributes besides width..
is your ski length the same on your 93 and 106? longer skis also make chopped snow more entertaining, imo.

I'm glad you found a great boot fit, now you can move toward where it's movements and the moment, not the shoe...
cheers!
W

Thanks, Wade! So the Stella 106s I've only skied twice, and I absolutely loved them in untracked. But that width, oof, it just wears me out after awhile. They are a 165--same length as my 93s. I had fun in the chop for awhile, then was really wishing for narrower. I am demoing some Black Crows Atris Birdie tomorrow--105 under foot in a 166.