Moguls and foot pressure

[geepers]

Ski and snowboard Sport Education on zip lining moguls. There's a list of vid drills.

Some interesting ones:

The importance of having skiers learn to ski fall line in naturally formed moguls - Good view of comp bump skiing in some natural moguls.

The Mogul Traverse Drill - working on absorption/extension.

The Cross Rut-line Mogul Drill - working on line.

Slip and Tip - the evidence remains in the snow.

Corridor Wedge - after mastering the wedge.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Ski and snowboard Sport Education on zip lining moguls. There's a list of vid drills.

Some interesting ones:

The importance of having skiers learn to ski fall line in naturally formed moguls - Good view of comp bump skiing in some natural moguls.

The Mogul Traverse Drill - working on absorption/extension.

The Cross Rut-line Mogul Drill - working on line.

Slip and Tip - the evidence remains in the snow.

Corridor Wedge - after mastering the wedge.

Excellent timing. Yesterday was day one for me, spent on soft baby bumps. I'll take these drills onto the snow today. The bumps should be bigger, and maybe more firm.

 

[geepers]

Excellent timing. Yesterday was day one for me, spent on soft baby bumps. I'll take these drills onto the snow today. The bumps should be bigger, and maybe more firm.

 

[Sanity]

What I understand is happening here is that weight is forward causing the part of the ski in front of the bindings to be engaged with the snow and allowing the lightly loaded tails to displace. So the skis rotate around some point between the front of the binding and the tip depending on how much weight is forward. It's an effective way to redirect the skis whether flat or with some edge.

Even in the competition community there's a good bit of style variation from skier to skier. So, personal style, conditions, and equipment all affect how much redirection any given turn will have and also how much the lightly loaded tails will displace. In some circumstances forward pressure will cause the tails to displace, but other times the sharp turn is from the tip bending more, and this bent ski carves a tighter arc. I agree in that video of Deneen there's lots of displacement. I'd seen that video a while ago and had always thought that.

 

[Rod9301]

Gs skis typically have metal, and they might bend in moguls

 

[James]

Pretty-


He really deserves much higher video production quality.

 

[bmurray]

its really a lot about anticipation. you go into the bump and when you put your skiis into it it immediately tries to knock you back on your tails, and in the wrong position to set up next one. you have to anticipate this and counteract this with hands nice and in front of you and even leaning a little into the bump so when you hit it knocks you back to neutral. Have to keep those tips into the snow or your screwed. obviously lots more to it but thats what has worked for me. big soft bumps best to learn on. hardest part is starting. haha, lots of folks stop at top of bump rum and look down into the run. better to just get on in there and mix it up. and as always, head up...

 

[Chris V.]

its really a lot about anticipation. you go into the bump and when you put your skiis into it it immediately tries to knock you back on your tails, and in the wrong position to set up next one. you have to anticipate this and counteract this with hands nice and in front of you and even leaning a little into the bump so when you hit it knocks you back to neutral. Have to keep those tips into the snow or your screwed. obviously lots more to it but thats what has worked for me. big soft bumps best to learn on. hardest part is starting. haha, lots of folks stop at top of bump rum and look down into the run. better to just get on in there and mix it up. and as always, head up...

The best frame of mind might be to think of moving through the bump. Granted, that's not actually possible, but it's all about overcoming the mental barriers that impede performance. I think the biggest issue I have with skiing bumps is just being late with everything. Late to initiate the transition, and especially late to move the center of mass forward. Everyone talks about moving forward after cresting a bump, but if that's when you initiate that forward move, it's already too late. While you're still climbing the bump, you may inevitably be getting a bit back--but focusing on movements rather than positions, that's the time to be starting moving forward. That motion will then reach fruition following the crest of the bump.

 

[SSSdave]

Just as there are a great variety of skier body shapes and weights, as well as different shapes, lengths, and characteristics of skis, there are bumps and there are bumps and then there are bumps. As I and others have pointed out in this thread and others, one size does not fit all, especially if one like the majority on slopes and web boards does not have a successful style where given proper skis and familiar slopes, one can consistently ski down long fall lines. As Plake related, there is simply no way to fake it.

One does not have to use pure comp mogul technique to ski rec bump slopes and IMO, unless one is intent on mainly skiing those machine made competition mogul lines, such technique may be more difficult to learn than other styles. All mogul styles have some similarities, but they also vary more than typical canned over-simplified comp instruction relates. This senior doesn't get rocked back at all moving through hundreds of bumps reasonably smoothly because of my body position, ski attack position, and where I ski on such surfaces, the result of 4 decades of skiing bumps each winter that is now wired via neural plasticity into my brain to do so without much thinking by my "pilot". Can I explain what I do in bio-mechanical words? No beyond a few bits and pieces, am no instructor haha. In other words, there are different ways to efficiently ski down such fall lines fluidly though it is true just like it was 4 decades ago on Squaw's totally pimpled slopes, that most such rec bump styles have not been analyzed and written up into instructions.

 

[Sanity]

One does not have to use pure comp mogul technique to ski rec bump slopes and IMO, unless one is intent on mainly skiing those machine made competition mogul lines, such technique may be more difficult to learn than other styles.

There are natural modes of development that come from trial and error, i.e. just getting out and doing it, that don't often seem to end up as the comp style nor other instructed styles. So, it does seem to be naturally harder to settle into some styles without instruction, but I don't think it's harder to learn if you take lessons. It's just harder to end up that way without lessons. There are movement patterns that naturally develop that become traps that are hard to shake without focused effort through some sort of feedback, either video or coaching. Those movement patterns can be effective for getting someone down the mountain and having fun, but ultimately they are flawed and will limit performance on comp bumps and on recreational bumps.

 

[SSSdave]

Quite agree, well put. Those without mogul skiing skills are either not likely to succeed on their own or may take years longer to. The reality that is true is reflected on how few otherwise advanced skiers, can ski moguls well. Often they are content to generally avoid bump fields and when they do just ski through bumps at modest levels. In this era that can simply be due to incompatible skis for moguls that instead are for terrain they prefer. Even if one understands how, it also takes hours, days, weeks skiing so repetitively for a mind to form neural plasticity enabling so. Books, videos, and web discussions can also help but there are limitations in effectively applying such by oneself. An experienced instructor keenly watching a client ski can be familiar with ways to bring skiers beyond impediment plateaus.

 

[James]

Description-
Freestyle skiing by the K2 demonstration team in 1971. They include Charlie McWilliams, Pat Bauman, John Clendenin, Bob Griswold, and Jim Stelling. From the film "The Performers" by Dick Barrymore.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Love reading this thread in the morning before hitting the slopes. Back in 1971 I was working on mastering The Snurfer. Yesterday broke out the Mantra 102's for their first day seeking that big GS feeling. They are a ton harder to move thru the bumps but oh so much fun when you find the groove. Hitting the bumps with whatever is on your feet will make you a complete skier.

 

[geepers]

Josh Duncan-Smith is a pretty handy bump skier. More ski instructor style than WC but quite capable of dropping a direct line as well.



New how-to vid on SI style.

 

[Noodler]

Josh Duncan-Smith is a pretty handy bump skier. More ski instructor style than WC but quite capable of dropping a direct line as well.



New how-to vid on SI style.

JD-S clearly needs shorter poles...

 

[James]

JD-S clearly needs shorter poles...

Haha.

The long poles might help in some places as a blocking pole plant turning his body.

 

[Fuller]

Josh Duncan-Smith is a pretty handy bump skier. More ski instructor style than WC but quite capable of dropping a direct line as well.


New how-to vid on SI style.

This is as good a tutorial as any. Great quality video lets you really imagine how it feels.

 

[geepers]

JD-S clearly needs shorter poles...

110 poles. How tall? Wild guess - similar height to Lorenz based on vid of them sitting on a chairlift. Anyone actually know??

Then again, he has pretty impeccable credentials: NZSIA Demo team member at 2019 Interski; instructs at Rookie Academy; pretty good marks in the 2020 Hokkaido Tech Championship. A portfolio of good skiing vids. So, arguably, pretty good skier. There's also photos of him skiing with adjustable poles so presumably he's had a chance to experiment and decided what works.

What would shorter poles bring to his skiing? In terms of ski performance and/or better use of body mass?

 

[Noodler]

110 poles. How tall? Wild guess - similar height to Lorenz based on vid of them sitting on a chairlift. Anyone actually know??

Then again, he has pretty impeccable credentials: NZSIA Demo team member at 2019 Interski; instructs at Rookie Academy; pretty good marks in the 2020 Hokkaido Tech Championship. A portfolio of good skiing vids. So, arguably, pretty good skier. There's also photos of him skiing with adjustable poles so presumably he's had a chance to experiment and decided what works.

What would shorter poles bring to his skiing? In terms of ski performance and/or better use of body mass?

I think you missed the context of that comment. It was a joke that was pulling from the "Chaos" thread and all the insanity about pole length.

 

[James]

Josh Duncan-Smith is a pretty handy bump skier. More ski instructor style than WC but quite capable of dropping a direct line as well.
New how-to vid on SI style.

That looks a lot like it was shot on the Itinerary route Chassoure at Verbier. Is it? Don’t know, but lot of similarities.

When there hasn’t been snow for awhile, that and the other route to Tortin turn into a huge mogul run. The longest I’ve seen.

Entrance

Left side. It goes pretty far to the right. As I remember you can go around that rock left. This was early March 2019.
I thought I had some photos of it really bumped up but can’t find them.

Wider shot

From the vid. You can see the gondola.

Orange poles.