Narrow tele boots?

[Wendy]

Tele boots are very soft compared to alpine boots, so the liner play a huge role in how the boots fit and their performance. If you are into long back country tours, you want a liner that is light weight and gives a large range of backward motion when striding. If you are using the boots for downhill resort skiing, you really want a good stiff alpine liner. I had the chance to examine a boot used on the World Cup race tour, and the racer modified the heck out of it. Full alpine race liner, and they removed the walk mode lever and just bolted the shell and cuff together at the forward lean angle they wanted.

This makes a lot of sense. Martin Fey is sending me last year’s Crispi boot not only because it’s a great price, but he said the liner on that year’s boot was much better than the new boot. I still will try it with my lace up liner. When I told him that the last time I tele-ed, I was in a 26.5 Scarpa T1 that could’ve been a little big, he decided to send me the Crispi.

 

[Truberski]

This makes a lot of sense. Martin Fey is sending me last year’s Crispi boot not only because it’s a great price, but he said the liner on that year’s boot was much better than the new boot. I still will try it with my lace up liner. When I told him that the last time I tele-ed, I was in a 26.5 Scarpa T1 that could’ve been a little big, he decided to send me the Crispi.

My wife tele’s and the Fey Brothers have been our equipment source. I wouldn’t exactly call what they have in CT as “brick and mortar” store but I wouldn’t go anywhere else for tele stuff if you are relatively close. We moved from CT to VT but I’d still make the drive down to Fey’s when we need something. Good guys and they’ll bend over backwards to help you.

 

[Mark1975]

My wife tele’s and the Fey Brothers have been our equipment source. I wouldn’t exactly call what they have in CT as “brick and mortar” store but I wouldn’t go anywhere else for tele stuff if you are relatively close. We moved from CT to VT but I’d still make the drive down to Fey’s when we need something. Good guys and they’ll bend over backwards to help you.

That's true. Their stores are out buildings located at their homes, but that is not a bad thing. When you go there, you pretty much get their full attention. When I tried on boots, they told me if I decide to purchase, then decide to change boots once I have worn it at home, they would exchange no questions asked. Of course, as long as the boot is still in new condition. I believe both of them have a demo skis so you can try out different bindings.

 

[James]

Maybe @markojp has thoughts on narrow NTN boots.

 

[Wendy]

I tried on a 26.5 Crispi Evo Shiver. Last year’s model, the yellow one, not the green. Fit better than expected! My toes just brush the end until I flex the boot. Ankle hold is decent. Cuff height and boot flex seem very good for a newbie. Then I realized I didn’t have the insoles in the boot...they were in a separate bag in the box!

I will try with those tomorrow, and also will do a shell fit. Any tele boot for me is going to need some modification, but I’m surprised that they aren’t big wide clown feet. If the shell fit seems too big, I’ll get a smaller size. (My alpine boot mondo is 25.5).

Does anyone have some advice about fitting a tele boot vs an alpine boot?

 

[pais alto]

I tried on a 26.5 Crispi Evo Shiver. Last year’s model, the yellow one, not the green. Fit better than expected! My toes just brush the end until I flex the boot. Ankle hold is decent. Cuff height and boot flex seem very good for a newbie. Then I realized I didn’t have the insoles in the boot...they were in a separate bag in the box!

I will try with those tomorrow, and also will do a shell fit. Any tele boot for me is going to need some modification, but I’m surprised that they aren’t big wide clown feet. If the shell fit seems too big, I’ll get a smaller size. (My alpine boot mondo is 25.5).

Does anyone have some advice about fitting a tele boot vs an alpine boot?

Remember that when you flex the boot, your toes may cram into the front if the boot is too short. Wearing the boot, put it in a mounted binding and do a few flexes to be certain your toes don’t smash up against the front. And, of course, be sure to have your footbeds (you have decent footbeds, right?) in the liner so that your foot is stabilized and not just sliding forward because it lack support.

Look for heel lift, just like alpine boots but it can be more pronounced and more of a problem because of the motions of tele. There are tricks a bootfitter can use to control heel lift.

 

[Mark1975]

I tried on a 26.5 Crispi Evo Shiver. Last year’s model, the yellow one, not the green. Fit better than expected! My toes just brush the end until I flex the boot. Ankle hold is decent. Cuff height and boot flex seem very good for a newbie. Then I realized I didn’t have the insoles in the boot...they were in a separate bag in the box!

I will try with those tomorrow, and also will do a shell fit. Any tele boot for me is going to need some modification, but I’m surprised that they aren’t big wide clown feet. If the shell fit seems too big, I’ll get a smaller size. (My alpine boot mondo is 25.5).

Does anyone have some advice about fitting a tele boot vs an alpine boot?

Don't get caught up on comparing the mondo sizing between alpine and telemark boots.

Scarpa and Crispi telemark boots break shells differently than most alpine boots. For example, an alpine 25 and 25.5 are the same shell (and often the same exact liner). Doesn't matter if you choose the 25 or the 25.5, you are getting a 25.5. That is because it simply would cost too much money to have a injection mold for every half size. So most alpine boots shells are only made in the half size (23.5, 24.5, 25.5 etc). The whole sizes (23,24,25 etc) are just a marketing sticker placed on the boot box.

Scarpa and Crispi telemark boots are manufactured on the whole size. 26.5 and 27 are the same shell. So your 26.5 Shiver is really a 27 Crispi shell.

The boot sole length (BSL) is sometimes a better place to start , but it can also get "clear as mud" when looking at different boot companies. I would guess your 25.5 alpine boot has a BSL around 295 mm +/- a few mm. However, your 26.5 (really a 27.0 shell) Crispi Shiver NTN has a BSL of 207. Which is closer to a traditional alpine 26/26.5 shell (!). It gets even more "interesting" for 75mm norm boots, because the duckbill extension is added to the BSL. The Crispi XP, which is the 75mm norm version of the Shiver, has a BSL around 217 mm. However, 10 mm of that is the duckbill, so it would fit your foot exactly as the 207 mm BSL NTN Shiver.

To make things even more confusing, the Scott telemark boots are manufactured on the half size (just like most alpine boots) The 26/26.5 Scott Voodoo NTN has a BSL of 305mm. So the 26/26.5 shell Scott will fit lengthwise the same as a 26.5/27 Crispi or Scarpa shell. Internal boot volume is a different story between Scarpa, Crispi and Scott...

Oh, the sizing games boot companies play!

The best way is to do a shell fit for length to start. Remove the liner, slide your foot to the front of the boot so your toes are just brushing the front of the shell. Then look how much room is left between your heel and the back of the shell.

As far as a shell fit...do not attempt a full alpine race fit (basically as little room between you toes and heels and the shell as possible) with a telemark boot. You need to have some extra room when you flex the bellows. If not, you will totally crush the front of your foot. You should be looking for a performance fit, somewhere around 1 to 1.5 cm from your heel to the shell with the liner removed. Any larger than that and you are getting into the "comfort fit" zone. Your boots will feel as comfortable as a pair of bedroom slippers. They will also ski downhill just like a pair of slippers....

This is just to get you into the correct length of shell (for most people... there may be exceptions if you have some odd foot anatomy). Next you need to access the volume of the shell...having the correct length isn't going to do you any good if your foot is still swimming in them because the boot has too much volume for your foot...

 

[Wendy]

Don't get caught up on comparing the mondo sizing between alpine and telemark boots.

Scarpa and Crispi telemark boots break shells differently than most alpine boots. For example, an alpine 25 and 25.5 are the same shell (and often the same exact liner). Doesn't matter if you choose the 25 or the 25.5, you are getting a 25.5. That is because it simply would cost too much money to have a injection mold for every half size. So most alpine boots shells are only made in the half size (23.5, 24.5, 25.5 etc). The whole sizes (23,24,25 etc) are just a marketing sticker placed on the boot box.

Scarpa and Crispi telemark boots are manufactured on the whole size. 26.5 and 27 are the same shell. So your 26.5 Shiver is really a 27 Crispi shell.

The boot sole length (BSL) is sometimes a better place to start , but it can also get "clear as mud" when looking at different boot companies. I would guess your 25.5 alpine boot has a BSL around 295 mm +/- a few mm. However, your 26.5 (really a 27.0 shell) Crispi Shiver NTN has a BSL of 207. Which is closer to a traditional alpine 26/26.5 shell (!). It gets even more "interesting" for 75mm norm boots, because the duckbill extension is added to the BSL. The Crispi XP, which is the 75mm norm version of the Shiver, has a BSL around 217 mm. However, 10 mm of that is the duckbill, so it would fit your foot exactly as the 207 mm BSL NTN Shiver.

To make things even more confusing, the Scott telemark boots are manufactured on the half size (just like most alpine boots) The 26/26.5 Scott Voodoo NTN has a BSL of 305mm. So the 26/26.5 shell Scott will fit lengthwise the same as a 26.5/27 Crispi or Scarpa shell. Internal boot volume is a different story between Scarpa, Crispi and Scott...

Oh, the sizing games boot companies play!

The best way is to do a shell fit for length to start. Remove the liner, slide your foot to the front of the boot so your toes are just brushing the front of the shell. Then look how much room is left between your heel and the back of the shell.

As far as a shell fit...do not attempt a full alpine race fit (basically as little room between you toes and heels and the shell as possible) with a telemark boot. You need to have some extra room when you flex the bellows. If not, you will totally crush the front of your foot. You should be looking for a performance fit, somewhere around 1 to 1.5 cm from your heel to the shell with the liner removed. Any larger than that and you are getting into the "comfort fit" zone. Your boots will feel as comfortable as a pair of bedroom slippers. They will also ski downhill just like a pair of slippers....

This is just to get you into the correct length of shell (for most people... there may be exceptions if you have some odd foot anatomy). Next you need to access the volume of the shell...having the correct length isn't going to do you any good if your foot is still swimming in them because the boot has too much volume for your foot...

Thanks for this. Yeah, I had read about the size breaks in Scarpa and Crispi boots. I had about 10 minutes of time before going back to work yesterday so I just put them on my feet. I plan on doing a shell fit this afternoon when I’ve got more time to play around. I also have a custom footbed made by a pedorthist. I was surprised by the Crispi stock footbeds...they’re really decent for a stock footbed, and I didn’t realize when I had the boots on that there were no footbeds in them until I saw them still in the box!

Yes, I thought that I need a bit more room than a trad alpine boot. I had a long conversation with Martin Fey, and he knew I was in a 25.5 Atomic (narrow) and at that point put me in the 26.5 Crispi.

I do like the shorter cuff of the Crispi (compared to the Scarpa T1 which I’ve worn before) and also the flex of the boot. It feels much more natural than the T1 did for me. Heel hold is always an issue for me, and I always need some sort of modification.

 

[Mark1975]

Just noticed I typed a 26.5/27 Shiver had a BSL of 207mm...I meant to type 307 mm...but I think you got the point how much variation can occur when boot companies assign sizes to boots. That is why it is always best to do a shell fit for length, then go from there.

 

[Wendy]

Just noticed I typed a 26.5/27 Shiver had a BSL of 207mm...I meant to type 307 mm...but I think you got the point how much variation can occur when boot companies assign sizes to boots. That is why it is always best to do a shell fit for length, then go from there.

I figured that was a typo and you meant 307. .
I did a shell fit and I’ve got close to but not quite 2 fingers in there. Martin is sending me the next shell size down to compare. He was telling me there’s no difference at all in liners between half sizes either (for Scarpa or Crispi). They just label them like that to please the customer. Crazy.

 

[Pequenita]

But i do get out west and we will be living in the West starting in 2023 so I hope to be able to venture off piste there.

Oooohhh!

 

[Wendy]

I‘ve got a pair of 25.5/26.0 and another pair of 26.5/27.0 Crispi Shivers. I did a shell fit on both pairs; it seemed that the smaller pair (green) had a better shell fit but....when my foot was in the boot and I flexed it, my toes jammed against the end of the boot. Weirdly, the larger (yellow) boot has a much better heel pocket in the unmolded liner and my toes are in a good position when I flex the boot. @Scruffy : do you have the yellow ones?

What’s really strange is that the instep of the green (smaller) boots looks higher than the yellow (larger) boots. I’m not sure if for some reason it’s the way I buckled the boot. It felt like the green boots were harder to buckle and adjust; as if my foot wasn’t seated properly. I removed the crappy stock insoles and put in a pair of mine.

I’m going to see Billy Kaplan, who is a pedorthist who also fits and works on ski boots. He’s familiar with tele boots, and he can do surgery/modifications on liners and boots. Hopefully I’ll see him soon; we are touching base tomorrow.

Since I’ve got a narrow foot, any tele boot is going to need modification or even an aftermarket liner. My forefoot isn’t really narrow; it’s my instep and heel.

 

[Mark1975]

Good to hear you have both shell sizes for Billy to evaluate. Since the liners are not cooked, the liner in the 25.5/26 may be giving you the issue vs. the actual shell. With any thermoform liner, you will not get a true sense on how they fit until molded to your feet.

I am in the same boat as you right now. My 75 mm boots are on their last legs, and when I get a new setup I am going NTN. The Meidjo tech toe NTN binding really has me intrigued now. As much as I like the build of the Scarpa last, the instep is too low, and the forefoot too wide. Plus, the TX Comp doesn't have the Dynafit inserts in the toe. I am leaning toward the Crispi EVO World Cup that I have tried on locally. I am also going to order the Scott Voodoo NTN for a shell fit just to cover all the bases before I decide. It would be nice to walk into a shop that had all three brands, in the correct shell size, to try on. That is not the reality, so I think the best anyone can do is order what you think will work, then do a fitting and keep the best option.

Keep us posted on how things go with your fitter.

 

[markojp]

If it matters, the Crispi Evo and Evo WC's walk mode is pretty sad. They ski well though. I tossed the Crispi wrap liner and replaced it with an intuition power wrap, pulled the booster strap off my old Scarpa T-races, and put them on the Crispis.

 

[Mark1975]

If it matters, the Crispi Evo and Evo WC's walk mode is pretty sad. They ski well though. I tossed the Crispi wrap liner and replaced it with an intuition power wrap, pulled the booster strap off my old Scarpa T-races, and put them on the Crispis.

I noticed that too. The Scarpa walk mode lever seems more robust. Whatever I get, the stock liner is getting replaced with leather Zipfit Freeride Sidewinders. Since my intended use is resort skiing, I am more interested in downhill performance than saving weight.

Do you know anything about the Voodoo NTN? From what I have read, people either love them or hate them. The Crispi EVO WC is a more known item. As long as it fits your foot shape, it is a great skiing boot. Very popular in World Cup Telemark racing, so its performance on hardpack is at the top of the list.

 

[Wendy]

Last night, before reading these posts, I ordered a 25.5 and 26.5 in the Scarpa TX Pro Women’s boot. I went onto Scarpa’s website, and although it is a wide lasted boot, Scarpa claims that it fits a wide variety of feet due to the instep buckle and nice heel pocket. And they claim it’s a “woman’s last.” So, why not try them? I was able to find both sizes, both at a 25% discount. @James, the boots are coming from Outdoor Gear XChange in Burlington.

My concern with the Scott is the lack of the instep buckle. From experience, that won’t work for me.

The advantage with the Crispi, I think (correct me if I’m wrong here) is that they have the toe inserts so the heel can lock down with the Meidjo binding. But I need to get the fit right first. Martin Fey said he thought that the lower cuff height of the Crispi would also be good for me, as a beginner level tele skier. And I do like the flex of that cuff. It feels very comfortable and natural.

@Mark1975, Billy Kaplan also reminded me that the liners need to be cooked in order to determine what fits best. I’ll learn a bit more when I talk to him today, and I’ll also be making an appointment for the fitting today.

Here’s a goofy question: does the length of one’s toes affect fit? Because it seems that would be a factor in where the bellows sits.

 

[James]

This tele boot thing is maybe worse than alpine! Think I’ll stick to one horrible situation. Well two now with touring. Bleh.

 

[Wendy]

I noticed that too. The Scarpa walk mode lever seems more robust. Whatever I get, the stock liner is getting replaced with leather Zipfit Freeride Sidewinders. Since my intended use is resort skiing, I am more interested in downhill performance than saving weight.

Do you know anything about the Voodoo NTN? From what I have read, people either love them or hate them. The Crispi EVO WC is a more known item. As long as it fits your foot shape, it is a great skiing boot. Very popular in World Cup Telemark racing, so its performance on hardpack is at the top of the list.

The walk mode on the older yellow Crispis seems better than on the newer green ones. Same with the buckles and liner. And the insole. The yellow boots actually had decent insoles that were good enough to get an idea about how the boot fits, unlike the insoles in the green ones, which was basically a flat piece of felt.

 

[Wendy]

This tele boot thing is maybe worse than alpine! Think I’ll stick to one horrible situation. Well two now with touring. Bleh.

Haha. Yeah, you can suffer vicariously through this thread.

I figure maybe I’m doing a public service announcement for anyone else wanting to go this route.

 

[markojp]

Honestly though, all teley boots feel like slippers compared to an alpine boot. IMHO, it's an exercise in futility to even think about a direct comparison, especially as they do different things. The Scarpa bellows are great, but the wider last of the NTN models was a deal breaker.