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Need technique/advice for skiing canyon/cliff type mogul formations in steep terrain
- Thread starter WildBillD
- Start date
Agree.
Remember: the OP stated he is competent in black and blue moguls. We haven't seen them ski so we only have their word for it. Skiing 20-30 degree slope mogul runs cut by good mogul skiers with lots of line choices is a different kettle of fish than a 50+ degree slope with chaotic Volkswagen sized bumps. Same technique maybe, but different tactics. A lot of skiing the latter is about confidence in that terrain. Perfect practice always makes perfect.
Totally not on board with that sentiment.
Skiing the more difficult terrains smoothly, softly with good technique will allow one to work more effectively on continual technical improvement when on less difficult terrains. The technical improvement gained from the work on less difficult terrains will foster improvements when back on the steep and gnarly. The process is cyclical.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Well, it seems like a foolish tautology, but different kinds of bumps are different. You have to practice on all variations. And cyclical is a good lesson plan.
Pretty sure the OP is talking about the type of moguls seen here on Superstar.
Today on that same drop the bumps were a little smaller as we skied in the fresh manmade. Skiing the tough technical lines everyday helps.
Those are nice bumps.
Those are ugly hacker bumps.
Improved tactic usually works with those ugly ones. Go few bumps further on the upper section to the skier right and hang a left down into the rounder bumps below. Bypassing all the ugliness. Just because they are there doesn't mean you have ski them.
It is quite difficult making sense of bump skiing technique without images, much less videos. I'm no ski instructor, often don't clearly understand biomechanical terms they use, so am limited in how I might describe whatever in ways professionals are used to.
I've often said, "There are bumps, and then there are bumps, and then there are bumps". Just as snow quality varies enormously depending on a list of reasons, so do recreational bumps (aka moguls) despite how skiers talk about them as though they are similar. Moguls vary in form, size, steepness, form regularity, snow softness to hardness, looseness, and surface visibility. That noted, it is also true that those characteristics vary like a Bell Curve, such that the majority share a degree of form similarities while a few can even be bizarre. Just as Plake has related, there is no way to fake skiing fall lines turning well through mogul fields regardless of how otherwise fit one might be. If one can ski long distances non-stop regardless of style, positive technique has to be occurring though it may not be similar to elite mogul skiers.
The above image shows characteristics of the majority of bumps I've added terms to since no one else seems to have bothered. Fields of such bump forms also tend to have characteristic forms as they create diagonal triangular rows. It is also true that where better skilled mogul skiers ski recreational bumps more, there will also tend to be more forms at the top of the Bell Curve. Additionally with all else equal, such forms change dependent on slope gradients with more challenging moguls where larger forces due to gravity are greater.
The dominant techniques to ski moguls revolves around competition mogul skiing troughs that has different judged goals versus free form recreational bump skiing skilled enthusiasts ski like a pinball game for visceral fun and enjoyment. The below shows some steeper bumps. If one looks at the different areas, there are more surfaces one might turn on than just troughs. In steeper moguls, using such other surfaces to turn on can be a strategy for speed control that given repetition one can become better at just as in troughs.
In the below GoPro8 POV video, I ski down in controlled slower step ladder mode through a section of intimidating mature steep bumps that have evolved into two bumps from what had been single bumps as good bump skiers made additional turns to control speed more. Can recall seeing in the 1980's these same forms on Headwall at Squaw. I can only ski down firm bump fields like that on given days after skiing lots of bumps earlier in the day to reach what I relate as "In the Zone". That is when my visual system has locked into the fast upcoming forms to a level that my inner motor control brain can react fast enough at just the right locations to cope with the required rapid movements. Early in a ski day, I won't even want to try haha. Recently I listened to a podcast Tom Gellie comment where he came to realize the value of sometimes needing to turn at the scariest place on bumps. Yes.
I now at age 74, can do that because I've skied Tahoe each winter now for over 4 decades that has through neural plasticity created robust brain neural pathways and chemical structures to do so. We are what we do and experience with repetition of correct movements key to retentive learning. The more one repeats movements, the more such becomes consistent, just like with World Cup skiers or Olympic gymnasts or tying one's shoe laces.
Regular bumps allow for multiple turning options. At any time the slier can choose between sliding down the backside, staying in the middle of the trough, or banking on the outside.
Monster, chaotic bumps such as @mdf perfectly displayed above, require the skier to ride the trough all the way around. Trying to scrub speed earlier will result in a turn directly into the near-vertical part of the bump. There's no option but to give it up to gravity until finally coming to the next fluffy flat spot. As mdf's photos show, almost every bump has a nice spot for a speed-killing hockey stop; you just need the confidence to keep your butterflies in check until you get there.
Keeping a good body position is necessary in nice bumps; in the really tough ones it's absolutely critical that the skier doesn't succumb to those natural - but disasterous - defensive upper body movements that we all know so well...
Monster, chaotic bumps such as @mdf perfectly displayed above, require the skier to ride the trough all the way around. Trying to scrub speed earlier will result in a turn directly into the near-vertical part of the bump. There's no option but to give it up to gravity until finally coming to the next fluffy flat spot. As mdf's photos show, almost every bump has a nice spot for a speed-killing hockey stop; you just need the confidence to keep your butterflies in check until you get there.
Keeping a good body position is necessary in nice bumps; in the really tough ones it's absolutely critical that the skier doesn't succumb to those natural - but disasterous - defensive upper body movements that we all know so well...
I'll disagree a bit - in those bumps shown above you can certainly skid your way around the turn, scrubbing speed the whole way, and use little edge on the flat spots or go back up the next bump to stop. I would never think "hockey stop" entirely in those - shoot for much subtler, although it's a similar edging I guess (two-footed)
The OP seems to be describing super "troughy" bumps - I.e. where there's pretty steep walls to the bumps on either side of the trough. That's always a struggle (and I'm not a great bump skier at all), but there's some good advice to try above depending on how severe it it.
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With good fundamentals, the path through moguls just starts to happen with miles.
And miles, and miles and miles.
I don't think I ever have a conscious thought when flowing through a mogul field, short of plotting what I'll call a macro path.
Admittedly, it's easier when you've been enjoying bumps for 59 years!
And miles, and miles and miles.
I don't think I ever have a conscious thought when flowing through a mogul field, short of plotting what I'll call a macro path.
Admittedly, it's easier when you've been enjoying bumps for 59 years!
This doesn't answer the OP's questions but no bump thread is complete without a link to the best, free, how to ski moguls instruction on the internet:
He isn’t recommending high edge angles; he’s speaking of engaging what will be the new outside ski (at whatever edge angle is appropriate) as early as possible. That means releasing the old turn earlier than one thinks one should. And he is right. This has always been a focus of good mogul skiers.
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So much more clearly articulated than my attempt. Thanks!
There is always other options. The Taos wide line comes to mind.
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Looks similar to Killington top of Super Star - the glacier. Nasty drop in but somehow everyone seems to get past it.
Those "Ugly, chaotic bumps..." are not what they may seem to be if one looks closer. If one looks at frame left to the left of the sunny zone, there is a diagonal slope coming from above at frame top that is obviously the main fall line that at two-thirds height mid frame has some obstacles. When snow was new, good skiers made normal turns around them that later skiers dug more out of exposing more till no one else skied a fall line therein. Skiers down the shadowed main fall line needed to move into the wider sunny zone at frame bottom so passed the obstacles by traverse through one of 4 traverse line gates that then mauled what had been a few normal looking bumps while some side slipped from higher traverse lines to lower ones, as they went wherever beyond frame right, all of which made them more ugly.