Richi Berger. Just good skiing.

[Chris V.]

Sheesh... @Chris V. says Richie and Reilly are short turn twins and apparently Reilly reckons shorts are heel push, hip dump! (20:42 below).

'Twas mike_m actually. The level of detail of analysis to make such a statement would be beyond my knowledge.

 

[geepers]

'Twas mike_m actually.

So it was.

 

[James]

Not disagreeing.

The tempo of the short turns in the OP vid is very high and translation across the hill is minimal - makes it difficult to see anything happening with shoulders and hips. It's clearer at 2:25 on the 1st few turns on the steeper pitch - where the tempo is slower and the translation across the hill is larger. As is the ski redirection.

Plus I'm not sure how much blasphemy I can absorb in one day life:

• Pushing
• Extending off the up hill leg (your long turn vid post on cross-over)
• Upper body rotating
• Sheesh... @Chris V. says Richie and Reilly are short turn twins and apparently Reilly reckons shorts are heel push, hip dump! (20:42 below).

(This vid has some interesting discussion on Richie as a skiing mentor - around 1:01:50. There's also a brief discussion on Alice Robinson's technique a couple of minutes before that.)

I know. Somewhere in his vids he’s basically saying not to counter. Then in the printed interview with Gellie he’s talking about pressuring the inside ski.

He really could use someone to make a video instruction production with him. 1 minute segments don’t really get it across. That’s just not his thing. I’ve heard he does have some Japanese language dvd’s.

 

[mike_m]

When I've been coached by Reilly, he has mentioned that as his skis approach the fall line, he presses in on the inside edge of his outside ski from the strongest part of that foot, the calcaneus bone at the front of the heel. This engages the tail of the outside ski to grip the snow and shape the end of the turn. He also inclines his pelvis down toward the snow as he diagonally lifts and rotates it opposite the direction of the ski tips. As mentioned before, terminology can be misinterpreted ("heel push," hip dump"). That's why he hesitates to describe these moves.

 

[geepers]

I know. Somewhere in his vids he’s basically saying not to counter. Then in the printed interview with Gellie he’s talking about pressuring the inside ski.

He really could use someone to make a video instruction production with him. 1 minute segments don’t really get it across. That’s just not his thing. I’ve heard he does have some Japanese language dvd’s.

Projected Productions - Legacy vids.

This is 2016...




Couple of points:
1. Even though it is filmed party in an alpine meadow it's much better than The Sound of Music
2. That Richie stem drill at 0:30 is a real hip flexor workout as the snow gets heavier. Like starting working out in the gym last March.

 

[geepers]

When I've been coached by Reilly

Wow, you've scored some good trainers!

That's why he hesitates to describe these moves.

Yep. Folk should listen to that TG/JDS section on RM. It's not the same thing as a intermediate's heel push but it's how he described the feelings to TG.

Funnily RM's "push/dump" description came straight to mind listening to Richie's vid #22. His wording is clear and we are all admiring his skiing. Whatever, I'm going to try some of this p/d next on snow.

 

[Plai]

How does one stay balanced if the knees are slightly in front?!?

In front of what?

I'll take my interpretation of Richi's stance was incorrect and leave it there. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Challenge accepted. I saw this video yesterday and figured I'd give it a shot while I was teaching. My first thought is that that tempo is so fast. It feels like Bishop's knife trick in Aliens. I'm gonna try and get some video and make this happen. That said, I don't really love the way it looks. I'd still rather be skiing like Patrick Batz. I guess it's because Bishop is a robot and I want to ski like a human.

 

[Noodler]

Challenge accepted. I saw this video yesterday and figured I'd give it a shot while I was teaching. My first thought is that that tempo is so fast. It feels like Bishop's knife trick in Aliens. I'm gonna try and get some video and make this happen. That said, I don't really love the way it looks. I'd still rather be skiing like Patrick Batz. I guess it's because Bishop is a robot and I want to ski like a human.

Yeah, that's kind of how I felt when I watched his latest video. The super high tempo with consistent rhythm is insane. My body parts don't move that fast; over and over and over.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Anybody know what skis he’s on? More importantly how long are his poles?

 

[jimtransition]

Anybody know what skis he’s on? More importantly how long are his poles?

Definitely the key to emulating these turns is pole length He skis for Head, I guess those are slaloms.

 

[mike_m]

Glad you noticed the poles. If you look at his, and most of the top skiers we've been watching lately, you'll notice that the poles are much longer than was the style a few years ago. They are held at a diagonal angle away from the body, very still, and, often, the tips are in the snow most of the way through the turn (particularly the pole next to the outside foot). This prevents upper-body rotation, where the pole touch crosses around to the front of the body and actually closes your upper body to the fall line. The pole touch, if used at all, is actually more of a pole push, that aids the transition and helps the upper body cross over the skis (Tom Gellie's "toppling").

 

[Sanity]

Glad you noticed the poles. If you look at his, and most of the top skiers we've been watching lately, you'll notice that the poles are much longer than was the style a few years ago. They are held at a diagonal angle away from the body, very still, and, often, the tips are in the snow most of the way through the turn (particularly the pole next to the outside foot). This prevents upper-body rotation, where the pole touch crosses around to the front of the body and actually closes your upper body to the fall line. The pole touch, if used at all, is actually more of a pole push, that aids the transition and helps the upper body cross over the skis (Tom Gellie's "toppling").

At fast speeds if you rely on the pole plant for anything other than sensory input, then you risk it slipping which will trip you up, especially if it's at an angle. When I look at that Berger video, I just see a light touch. From a physics perspective, a light touch can't accomplish anything other than provide sensory input.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

He’s basically skiing a twenty gate flush. If there were really gates there he’d probably block the whole thing with one hand.

 

[razie]

Wow! Yeah. That's the technical skiing that some of us aspire to!

Zero redirection or steering the ski or rotary pivoting, full carving, zero extension, full flexing, zero upper body, full foot action, zero hip rotation, full hip counter and OMG fore/aft control. And all at that rythm . It's all pushed to an extreme that few will reach within a few lifetimes...

It's amazing that some will see the opposite in that skiing - it goes to show the understanding of what it takes to ski like that, even after all their instructional videos...

 

[Sanity]

Wow! Yeah. That's the technical skiing that some of us aspire to!

Zero redirection or steering the ski or rotary pivoting, full carving, zero extension, full flexing, zero upper body, full foot action, zero hip rotation, full hip counter and OMG fore/aft control. And all at that rythm . It's all pushed to an extreme that few will reach within a few lifetimes...

It's amazing that some will see the opposite in that skiing - it goes to show the understanding of what it takes to ski like that, even after all their instructional videos...

It is amazing. That's not edge to edge carving. There's a ton of steering through transition. The actual rotation from carving is only a small bit in time when you can see the ski up on edge. If you break it down frame by frame you'll see rotation of the ski while the ski is flat. A flat ski does not turn on it's own. The ski has to be up on it's edge to turn by carving. The ski must travel straight through transition until a fair amount of edge angle is established before the ski can turn at those speeds if there's no steering. Most short turns that you see have steering in transition. Physically, edge to edge carving typically results in wider arcs, because the ski just can't turn that sharply with such low edge angles in the beginning of the turn.

We can distinguish between steering after the ski is up on edge vs. steering through transition. Once the ski is up on edge he's letting the ski turn on it's own, and that's what you guys see and enjoy, but there's lots of steering before it's up on edge. I think a number of you just think of that as tipping the ski, but it's different. You can tip the ski without any steering or you can tip with steering. These turns use steering while tipping the skis.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

You guys have all failed at watching the first video. He says "Don't zink about anysing". How many of you have tried it yet? Let's watch and then do. Can you guys really think about so much stuff while skiing at anywhere close to that tempo? Over the next couple of days when I get a chance I am just going to try and DO. OK, I have thought a little about it. How steep is that pitch. It doesn't look like much. What radius is that ski? There may be a Fischer slalom in my new future. But when I try it I'm going to think one thing and one thing only and that is tempo. Just try and get there and let the rest sort itself out.

 

[Henry]

Wow, that's just beautiful His upper body just doesn't seem to move laterally.

Do I have this right? His knees appear to be slightly in front, and that allows the legs to move so freely. How does one stay balanced if the knees are slightly in front?!?

During the retraction phase when he pulls his feet up his hips go behind his feet. It works because there is very little weight on the skis at that moment.

Counting from the earliest image, #4 has his legs retracted and he's sitting back due to the stiff boots. #5 has his outside leg extending, and #6 shows his outside leg extended and he's properly balanced.

Look at his video running at .25 speed. He's over on his new inside edges very early in the process of starting the new turn. Tip--turn the sound off. Music at .25 speed sounds like a cat ready to go home from the vet.

 

[geepers]

I'll take my interpretation of Richi's stance was incorrect and leave it there. Thanks for the correction.

Was a good question. And well answered by @Henry.

Hard planet to learn from if we don't allow ourselves to ask questions.

That said, I don't really love the way it looks. I'd still rather be skiing like Patrick Batz. I guess it's because Bishop is a robot and I want to ski like a human.

The critique is the skiing is too good?

Wow! Yeah. That's the technical skiing that some of us aspire to!

Admire, yes. Aspire to? Sadly, no - need another lifetime. What can happen when some-one reaches the pinnacle of their profession at a young age and stays there for 3 or more decades.

Zero redirection or steering the ski or rotary pivoting, full carving, zero extension, full flexing, zero upper body, full foot action, zero hip rotation, full hip counter and OMG fore/aft control. And all at that rythm . It's all pushed to an extreme that few will reach within a few lifetimes...

It's amazing that some will see the opposite in that skiing - it goes to show the understanding of what it takes to ski like that, even after all their instructional videos...

A question for you... in his vid #22 (which looks like it was filmed the same day) would you agree that he's redirecting given that he says he is. Sure, they are at a slower tempo, he's travelling further back and forth across the hill and the speed is likely more controlled.



Now look at the OP vid and the turns on the steeper terrain when he's skiing away from the tower. Are they different or the same? (Just the upper few turns.)

Can you guys really think about so much stuff while skiing at anywhere close to that tempo?

Nah. But we can think about one thing at a time and try to make our skiing a little better in the process.

 

[razie]

There may be a Fischer slalom in my new future. But when I try it I'm going to think one thing and one thing only and that is tempo. Just try and get there and let the rest sort itself out.

...only posting this here, because I was doing exactly just that in the orange pants run, first runs on a brand new Fischer WC SL thinking just "fast offset". The thing is mean, love it.



But doing that without any prior significant training in those precise movements? Not useful... not that any amount of said work guarantees any kind of good outcome (proof above, heh), but still, not useful.