All North American official organizations will tell you you don't want to do this - which is why they can't teach this skiing...
C'mon... anyone?
Tell us we don't want to do what?
All North American official organizations will tell you you don't want to do this - which is why they can't teach this skiing...
C'mon... anyone?
Strangely to me the turns in this video look more interesting, fun and worthy as an outcome worth shooting for than basically any other video linked here which are purported to be technically superior skiing. This looks fun, most of the other look like they are doing a job of work... Which they probably are....only posting this here, because I was doing exactly just that in the orange pants run, first runs on a brand new Fischer WC SL thinking just "fast offset". The thing is mean, love it.
But doing that without any prior significant training in those precise movements? Not useful... not that any amount of said work guarantees any kind of good outcome (proof above, heh), but still, not useful.
Again before you discuss what Richie is or is not doing, please watch his demo’s. He focuses on his technique in great detail and describes his distinctive techniques in short and longer turns. In one of his skate demo’s he talks about “screwing into a turn”. That is exactly what you see in the skiboot skiing demo. There is more active turning in his skiing that “simply” following the skis on edge or tipping the inside/outside foot.
I like that "screwing into the turn" - it resonates a lot. Up here a similar term is/was used a lot in race coaching, "coiling". Same sort of idea. Applies to most/all turns, especially of course shorts and slalom.Again before you discuss what Richie is or is not doing, please watch his demo’s. He focuses on his technique in great detail and describes his distinctive techniques in short and longer turns. In one of his skate demo’s he talks about “screwing into a turn”. That is exactly what you see in the skiboot skiing demo. There is more active turning in his skiing that “simply” following the skis on edge or tipping the inside/outside foot.
I like that "screwing into the turn" - it resonates a lot. Up here a similar term is/was used a lot in race coaching, "coiling". Same sort of idea. Applies to most/all turns, especially of course shorts and slalom.
Of course, not much is passive in this fast skiing! My objection along this entire thread was against the "dogma" of "it's active rotary" or "pivoting" as if that describes this skiing at all. For me, it doesn't... and if for 5% or 10% of the turn, the carving is not obvious but also no pivoting is obvious, I cannot call that "active rotary".
To give you an example, take this, since I already made it and you brought up screwing/coiling:
View attachment 152743
He has screwed himself into the right footer turn / coiled himself. He maintains that coiling through skis flat, in the middle frames. That is not easy and takes a lot of "coiling" or "coiled" effort. His feet are nothing but relaxed, in fact his feet are working hard to keep the skis from unwinding and pivoting as they change edges through flat, his feet are still activated to turn the other way, up the hill - that's how you keep the flat ski from rotating. This is the part where most skiers would let go and rotate or pivot. His feet are working hard to keep the skis from rotating into the turn even as the angles increase. This is 100% carving technique, the exact opposite of pivoting a flat ski.
At some point, you need to stop the coiling, in the last frame - obviously, the skis must turn the other way eventually. As you transition from strong coiling effort to carve "the other way", what happens? The obvious will happen: if the ski was not on high enough edge angles to stay in place, it may rotate. So, as he transitions from coiling / the feet from turning up the hill (keep the skis from unwinding) to carving the turn, the ski may redirect slightly, especially given that insane rythm. Duh. Is there an "active shaping phase" going on at the same time? Meh, not really. The extension that happens during the same time is the right timing for a carved turn, so I don't see an active shaping there, via foot rotation. Is the foot rotating some? Of course - it has to stop resisting (turn uphill) and complete the turn. Is there enough time to passively follow the ski shape along? At that rythm? Nope.
But we cannot have that discussion when some see just "ah, he's pivoting". Or "that skiing, it's active rotary, you see". Or that transition is a steering transition. Go back and see the comments and it's either "it's active rotary" or "he pivoted the flat skis" when it is exactly the contrary, as these frames show.
Here, we're simply lacking the vocabulary to have that discussion... the dictionary and the models used are too coarse to be useful to discuss this skiing. There's tons of other skiing, including of Berger, that this may be applicable to, but not this.
p.s. His drills are great. I do a ton of pivot slips, almost daily. Do my turns look like pivots or would describing my turns as "pivoting" capture the wrong part of the drill?
p.s.2 Tech detail: if to the uncoiling effort, when he stops the feet from torquing up the hill and starts activating them into the turn, if at that point he'd add any kind of steering from extra active foot rotation, he'd blow way past the fall line and not engage the ski to get that turn shape. This is why this skiing does not result from "pivot into an edge set" but from "carve into a short turn", which is training it from the other end of the spectrum, although it obviously requires many skills.
It's not this skiing, which is more on the other side of the spectrum (in this case more heel push than foot rotation, still - too many mechanisms at play, i do see why it's tempting to just say "it's just rotary"):
View attachment 152747
It is closer to this:
View attachment 152748
...which is not "all active rotary", pivoted...
Anyways, maybe this gives you a better insight into how I see things. Cheers.
Yea -Let me do the math for you: the ski tips 40 degrees and redirects uhh 3? That must be a lot of pivoting effort there...
View attachment 152757
I like that "screwing into the turn" - it resonates a lot. Up here a similar term is/was used a lot in race coaching, "coiling". Same sort of idea. Applies to most/all turns, especially of course shorts and slalom.
Of course, not much is passive in this fast skiing! My objection along this entire thread was against the "dogma" of "it's active rotary" or "pivoting" as if that describes this skiing at all. For me, it doesn't... and if for 5% or 10% of the turn, the carving is not obvious but also no pivoting is obvious, I cannot call that "active rotary".
To give you an example, take this, since I already made it and you brought up screwing/coiling:
View attachment 152743
He has screwed himself into the right footer turn / coiled himself. He maintains that coiling through skis flat, in the middle frames. That is not easy and takes a lot of "coiling" or "coiled" effort. His feet are nothing but relaxed, in fact his feet are working hard to keep the skis from unwinding and pivoting as they change edges through flat, his feet are still activated to turn the other way, up the hill - that's how you keep the flat ski from rotating. This is the part where most skiers would let go and rotate or pivot. His feet are working hard to keep the skis from rotating into the turn even as the angles increase. This is 100% carving technique, the exact opposite of pivoting a flat ski.
At some point, you need to stop the coiling, in the last frame - obviously, the skis must turn the other way eventually. As you transition from strong coiling effort to carve "the other way", what happens? The obvious will happen: if the ski was not on high enough edge angles to stay in place, it may rotate. So, as he transitions from coiling / the feet from turning up the hill (keep the skis from unwinding) to carving the turn, the ski may redirect slightly, especially given that insane rythm. Duh. Is there an "active shaping phase" going on at the same time? Meh, not really, I see the tips engaged and tracking, not redirecting - although the tails may slip some, but is it the extension with the ski on edge that slips the tails or active "rotary"? The extension that happens during the same time is the right timing for a carved turn, so I don't see an active shaping there, via foot rotation. Is the foot rotating some? Of course - it has to stop resisting (turn uphill) and complete the turn. Is there enough time to passively follow the ski shape along? At that rythm? Nope.
But we cannot have that discussion when some see just "ah, he's pivoting". Or "that skiing, it's active rotary, you see". Or that transition is a steering transition. Go back and see the comments and it's either "it's active rotary" or "he pivoted the flat skis" when it is exactly the contrary, as these frames show.
Here, we're simply lacking the vocabulary to have that discussion... the dictionary and the models used are too coarse to be useful to discuss this skiing. There's tons of other skiing, including of Berger, that this may be applicable to, but not this.
p.s. His drills are great. I do a ton of pivot slips, almost daily. Do my turns look like pivots or would describing my turns as "pivoting" capture the wrong part of the drill?
p.s.2 Tech detail: if to the uncoiling effort, when he stops the feet from torquing up the hill and starts activating them into the turn, if at that point he'd add any kind of steering from extra active foot rotation, he'd blow way past the fall line and not engage the ski to get that turn shape. This is why this skiing does not result from "pivot into an edge set" but from "carve into a short turn", which is training it from the other end of the spectrum, although it obviously requires many skills.
It's not this skiing, which is more on the other side of the spectrum (in this case more heel push than foot rotation, still - too many mechanisms at play, i do see why it's tempting to just say "it's just rotary"):
View attachment 152747
It is closer to this:
View attachment 152748
...which is not "all active rotary", pivoted...
Anyways, maybe this gives you a better insight into how I see things. Cheers.