Ski school staffing: '21/'22

[jimtransition]

I accepted a job in the US for this winter, seems like a few schools are restarting their H2B visa programs to meet the staffing needs with foreign instructors. Wages are much less than I am used to, and accommodation seems terrible and overpriced, but with Covid and Brexit happening at the same time I don't have loads of options.

 

[James]

Well, here's the thing. If you are good, then you should be able to build a book of clients who come back and book you year after year. Good ski instructors don't depend on the resort to supply them with a stable book of business; great ski instructors virtually never are available to accept bookings from the resort.

So the group lessons are just with the bad instructors and new hires?

 

[HardDaysNight]

^^^Heaven forfend, how could you suggest such a thing? Even to make a point.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

So the group lessons are just with the bad instructors and new hires?

I believe that some resorts undervalue the value of the group lesson consumer. I have skied with many guests who have the financial ability to pay for private lessons but choose the group environment for the social aspect, to learn from others etc. Many times mom is one lesson, dad in another lesson and children in lessons. These guests are spending the same or money than they would spend on a private. I love teaching group lessons. Get the group excited about skiing and watch people interact and encourage each other is amazing. Most of the people that come to group lessons want to learn. I have taught some private lessons where I question why they booked a lesson. Critical to have good instructors for groups.

 

[Disinterested]

So the group lessons are just with the bad instructors and new hires?

Not necessarily. For one thing, I think what Mike is describing is a bit exaggerated by the experience of Aspen - a resort where the number of pros with whole seasons booked through with privates is greater than any other by a long way.

For another, there are some pros who like to work in group lessons, and go there because they want to.

But mostly I think the time of year and the resort matter most.

Your chance of getting a new hire teaching you in a group lesson goes through the roof if you book one Xmas or a holiday week. Even people who are still only in the building phase with clients are going to be booked in the major holiday periods.

They are also a lot higher if you take a lesson at, say, Breck, where the school turns over half its staff every year.

 

[Jack skis]

I accepted a job in the US for this winter, seems like a few schools are restarting their H2B visa programs to meet the staffing needs with foreign instructors. Wages are much less than I am used to, and accommodation seems terrible and overpriced, but with Covid and Brexit happening at the same time I don't have loads of options.

Where will you be teaching? Have enjoyed your posts from Japan through the years here on SKI TALK, and look forward to your views on skiing and teaching in the US. Sorry about the wages and accommodations, but that's the situation for many in the US, especially those who are in the ski business. This is not meant as a flippant comment

 

[HDSkiing]

At Timberline Lodge (Mt Hood, Oregon) they are hiring new ski instructors this year. I don't know if they are hiring more than usual. I do know that they will be hiring one old slow man who has never instructed before: ME ! (That's right, after 54 years of skiing I'm going to try instructing this year).

Welcome to the industry! I think you will have a blast, and remember all we’re really doing is helping people have fun while they slide on snow, it’ll only get complicated if you let it.

 

[markojp]

^^^Heaven forfend, how could you suggest such a thing? Even to make a point.

Because it's specious.

 

[4ster]

For another, there are some pros who like to work in group lessons, and go there because they want to.

I mostly preferred teaching & coaching groups especially when some synergy & camaraderie was created. Didn’t make much difference what age or level as long as we could feel like a team exploring new movements, terrain & sensations.

 

[markojp]

I mostly preferred teaching & coaching groups especially when some synergy & camaraderie was created. Didn’t make much difference what age or level as long as we could feel like a team exploring new movements, terrain & sensations.
View attachment 142666

Spot on! Even the private clients that regularly book me are usually at least 2 people, sometimes 3 per session. The group dynamic is always fun!

 

[Rich McP]

They are also a lot higher if you take a lesson at, say, Breck, where the school turns over half its staff every year.

Where’d that nonsense claim come from? You got anything at all to support it?

 

[Mike King]

So the group lessons are just with the bad instructors and new hires?

I've seen a lot of returns in group lessons. Someone else in this thread and I used to manipulate the system to get the instructor we wanted every week. Bring them back is the key component, whether it is private lessons or groups.

 

[Disinterested]

Where’d that nonsense claim come from? You got anything at all to support it?

Just talking to people who have worked in management for Vail Resorts. If you have another perspective on what retention rates are like, by all means.

It's pretty hard to find by department reporting, but Breck as a whole seems to report turning over 1/3 staff across the entire resort annually.

 

[AmyPJ]

I was taught to stem 20 years ago by a younger instructor. I have never been able to kick that horrific habit. It haunts me to this day. So yes, a less experienced instructor can teach some incorrect things that carry big implications. Having an instructor with a great personality who "makes the lesson fun" is all fine and dandy, but if that person lacks the knowledge to teach effective movement patterns, it absolutely can have impactful negative effects.

 

[Jilly]

I was taught to stem 20 years ago by a younger instructor. I have never been able to kick that horrific habit. It haunts me to this day. So yes, a less experienced instructor can teach some incorrect things that carry big implications. Having an instructor with a great personality who "makes the lesson fun" is all fine and dandy, but if that person lacks the knowledge to teach effective movement patterns, it absolutely can have impactful negative effects.

That's why I like our CSIA system. Unless the school has special insurance, you can't teach without a CSIA certification. And every 3 years you must take a refresher course (1 day seminar) into order to keep your certification up to date.

But many instructors get their L1 and don't go any further. That is not good for the skiing public as they are not usually as up to date as someone that takes a next level course, or the convention. I've even had a L4 that was about 2 years behind giving us the refresher. I decided it wasn't worth questioning him about it. The higher level cert instructors knew he wasn't up to date.

 

[HDSkiing]

I was taught to stem 20 years ago by a younger instructor. I have never been able to kick that horrific habit.

Stem Christie? A whole generation of us learned to do that, and it’s found it’s way back into contemporary skiing, I think it’s a required task at L2/3 now.

In any event, something was ingrained that you are not happy with. Hopefully you are working through it.

Having an instructor with a great personality who "makes the lesson fun" is all fine and dandy, but if that person lacks the knowledge to teach effective movement patterns, it absolutely can have impactful negative effects.

True statement. It’s a balance of being good with people, knowing how (and what) to teach and having the technical skills to Demo it properly. The second two are considerably easier to train than the first. You need all of those for a successful lesson. It’s been my impression that most ski schools hit that mark far more than they miss it as you experienced.

 

[James]

I was taught to stem 20 years ago by a younger instructor. I have never been able to kick that horrific habit.

Useful in trees.
As H/D said, many learned that way. I did. Then there was being able to wedel, which pretty nuch meant you were an “expert”
A framing at one time was cool.

Try reversing the stem. Every time you go to stem, at least the next turn reverse it-instead of pushing the outside ski out, shorten the inside leg and tip it inside. If you gave 100% focus to the inside ski, eventually it should go away.

 

[James]

I've seen a lot of returns in group lessons. Someone else in this thread and I used to manipulate the system to get the instructor we wanted every week. Bring them back is the key component, whether it is private lessons or groups.

I get it, but your other post reads as one is woefully inept if they’re not booked most of the season. Since you can’t choose your group lesson instructor, that means privates. I still doubt they’re teaching many random groups since that would likely be a serious pay reduction.

 

[LiquidFeet]

....I still doubt they’re teaching many random groups since that would likely be a serious pay reduction.

Plus less tips. Random people bunched into groups rarely tip. At least around here they don't.

 

[Rich McP]

Plus less tips. Random people bunched into groups rarely tip.

Out here, tips in group lessons are not uncommon (but it's not uncommon to get stiffed too). You just need that first person to go for their wallet then the flood gates open.