Tahoe Spring Wax

[jt10000]

If I'm doing a fluoro hot wax just for spring (over a paraffin base coat), is it really necessary to have a separate brush for fluoro wax?

It's not.

 

[jt10000]

Adding - separate brushes help avoid "contamination" of the wax via dust of another wax left on the brush. This is important if you've added a thin later of fluoro or fluorinated wax and don't to reduce its effectiveness by mixing in HC wax from a previous brushing. But it's not that big a deal, especially if you keep your brushes fairly clearly, including rubbing them along a scraper or clear hard edge somewhere to get most dust off.

 

[afadeev]

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Zardox Not Wax is killer for spring conditions. Might have to apply again during the day if you're skiing hard & fast, but makes spring/slush such a blast...

I tried the above at Killington this week - it may be good for 2-3 runs, at most. Then it wears off. Temps were in high 30s in the morning, climbing into low 50s by the afternoon.
Zardoz NOTwax definitely did NOT last all day, despite the marketing claims. Not even close!

Went home, properly hot-waxed the skis again that evening (with yellow wax, forgot the brand). The yellow hot-wax lasted for most of the next day. Huge difference during AM runs, way better glide than the Zordoz experience the morning prior.
But as temps rose into low 70s by mid-day (@Killington), the gliding level started to decrease. Either the hot wax wore off, or it just go way too warm, or riding over expanding dirt patches had an effect. Or all of the above.

HTH,
a

P.S.: For what's its worth - I wont be a repeat Zordoz customer.

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but Zardox Not Wax is killer for spring conditions. Might have to apply again during the day if you're skiing hard & fast, but makes spring/slush such a blast...

Yup. And it's better if you let it soak in ovenight. And it's better than that if you do it as an undercoat to a hot wax. And it works great to reject pollen. And it's awesome for under a harder wax for mountains that have cold snow at top, slush at base (Breck, Mammoth, Lake Louise).

 

[cantunamunch]

Adding - separate brushes help avoid "contamination" of the wax via dust of another wax left on the brush. This is important if you've added a thin later of fluoro or fluorinated wax and don't to reduce its effectiveness by mixing in HC wax from a previous brushing. But it's not that big a deal, especially if you keep your brushes fairly clearly, including rubbing them along a scraper or clear hard edge somewhere to get most dust off.

One of the nice things about soft waxes is that you can use white Fibertex to polish before brushing - reduced brush contamination, especially if you're concerned about fluoro or surfactants (spring waxes) or graphite/moly.

 

[4ster]

Zardoz NOTwax definitely did NOT last all day, despite the marketing claims. Not even close!

I had a couple of Zardoz kits years ago. It is definitely a re-apply every or every other run solution. I tend to do the same with Butter, rub a light coat on every couple of runs when the snow becomes Elmer’s glue.

 

[Stev]

I have had good results with Dakine Indy Hot Wax (Warm.)

 

[Paul Lutes]

My experience with race butter is that unless you can heat it en ought to really saturate the p-tex, it won't last more than a few runs - rubbing/corking doesn't cut it. After a good heat soak, however, it's good for hours, if not all day.

 

[snwbrdr]

I tried the above at Killington this week - it may be good for 2-3 runs, at most. Then it wears off. Temps were in high 30s in the morning, climbing into low 50s by the afternoon.
Zardoz NOTwax definitely did NOT last all day, despite the marketing claims. Not even close!

Went home, properly hot-waxed the skis again that evening (with yellow wax, forgot the brand). The yellow hot-wax lasted for most of the next day. Huge difference during AM runs, way better glide than the Zordoz experience the morning prior.
But as temps rose into low 70s by mid-day (@Killington), the gliding level started to decrease. Either the hot wax wore off, or it just go way too warm, or riding over expanding dirt patches had an effect. Or all of the above.

HTH,
a

P.S.: For what's its worth - I wont be a repeat Zordoz customer.

Dirty snow does have a way of dragging you. It's preferable to have some molybdenum or graphite in the wax for dirty snow.

I remember one time I was at Big Bear... every time I hit a dirty patch of snow, it felt like someone slammed on the "brakes" on me.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

Tried dominator ffc2 today at palisades and damn was the glide good. Our friends on toko liquid yellow also were very happy with the glide. Just refreshed our skis with toko yellow and will be at alpine tomorrow

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Tried dominator ffc2 today at palisades and damn was the glide good. Our friends on toko liquid yellow also were very happy with the glide. Just refreshed our skis with toko yellow and will be at alpine tomorrow

Curious to know FFC2 vs Toko Yellow.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Will be trying some Fast Wax HSF40 at either Palisades or Kirkwood on Tuesday.

 

[jt10000]

Will be trying some Fast Wax HSF40 at either Palisades or Kirkwood on Tuesday.

I have used that in XC skiing some years ago - good stuff, especially for the price.

 

[4ster]

Dirty snow does have a way of dragging you.

Dirt is a killer, especially the stuff that comes off of trees. In my experience this is where most waxes can be a detriment as it seems to collect the dark sludge to the ski bases. Sometimes l think a clean, dry base with a coarse structure is the way to go & something like Zardoz reapplied frequently is your best bet. Again “no wax is better than the wrong wax”!
l’ll have to give the graphite idea a test sometime . Any particular brand name?

 

[jt10000]

Dirt is a killer, especially the stuff that comes off of trees. In my experience this is where most waxes can be a detriment as it seems to collect the dark sludge to the ski bases. Sometimes l think a clean, dry base with a coarse structure is the way to go & something like Zardoz reapplied frequently is your best bet. Again “no wax is better than the wrong wax”!
l’ll have to give the graphite idea a test sometime . Any particular brand name?

One of the issues with the "easy waxes" is people not actually cleaning their bases. Just putting liquid on top of dirty bases over and over. Not good.

In terms of graphite, in XC skiing I don't think I ever skied on graphite as a final coat, but at the advice of some very knowledgeable people would use it as an underlayer in dirty conditions. There may be differences among brands, but I'm not sure how big they are. So I've used Solda, Star and Toko (molybdenum, not graphite, but similar). Maybe Ski-Go. This was 10 or more years ago, so I'm not sure if the advice still holds.

 

[cantunamunch]

The stuff that comes off trees is where surfactants help. Also situations with a lot of free water in the snow.

Other than the obvious Ivory soap rub-on, plenty of spring waxes have them mixed in. Hertel Spring Solution coming to mind almost instantly. Quite a few silicones act as surfactants too (people usually think of them as purely water-rejecting but it isn't true) - and thus we get silicones in warm formulation waxes.

Graphite and MoS2 are meh for dirty+free water conditions. They're really meant for low-free-water conditions where there isn't much lubricity in the snow itself. The apparent benefit in dirt+free water is mostly from the small particulate size. In other words, you could do the same thing with rice bran starch.

To renew @jt10000 's point, clean your bases before you use surfactant waxes. Otherwise the surfactants clump around either the old wax or whatever dirt you have on there - because that's what they're designed to do.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

Curious to know FFC2 vs Toko Yellow.

Snow was wetter today at alpine but the toko yellow glide was still pretty good! If i had to pick, id say Ffc2 felt slicker but I could be happy with either. Will likely continue iron waxing ffc2 in before the weekend and refreshing with toko yellow liquid. Could probably use ffc2 paste but the toko spray is just too easy

 

[PMorenus]

Skied on Dominator FFC P2 paste on Wednesday at Saddleback in Maine. It held up most of the day. I had planned to try Fast Wax HSP40 there on Thursday but the tin I had in my bag was dried up. Ended up using an unopened free tin of Fast Wax HSX40 that came along in the order last year for the HSP40 on our skis for Thursday. The HSX didn't hold up beyond a few runs.

I'm planning for a few trips out to ski Superstar at Killington in May. I'm unsure about what I'll put on the skis for those trips.

I do have some Zardoz left over from a few seasons ago. Perhaps I could try putting that on under some other wax. In the bottom of a drawer in my shop I have a unopened pentagonal package of Maplus Universal Yellow that I have absolutely no recollection of ever purchasing. And a few bars of ignored Swix BP88 and Purl Yellow.

I feel as if I should use up some of the random stuff around the shop before ordering some more Dominator paste...

 

[Jacques]

Dirt is a killer, especially the stuff that comes off of trees. In my experience this is where most waxes can be a detriment as it seems to collect the dark sludge to the ski bases. Sometimes l think a clean, dry base with a coarse structure is the way to go & something like Zardoz reapplied frequently is your best bet. Again “no wax is better than the wrong wax”!
l’ll have to give the graphite idea a test sometime . Any particular brand name?

The wrong wax is not good, but not scraping and brushing out every last spec is just as bad.

 

[Jacques]

Snow was wetter today at alpine but the toko yellow glide was still pretty good! If i had to pick, id say Ffc2 felt slicker but I could be happy with either. Will likely continue iron waxing ffc2 in before the weekend and refreshing with toko yellow liquid. Could probably use ffc2 paste but the toko spray is just too easy

Put some Dominator Elite W on top of the FFC2. Because there is no cure time, you can do it on the Mt. when it's needed. This assumes you have a place, and the time to get it done. Where I ski, I can ski right by my car. Like 20 ft.