The Four Fundamentals

[LiquidFeet]

I keep most of my pressure at the back of the arch/front of the heel. And I hover my body weight over the tongue of the boot where contact is continuous. This last part, the hovering, presses the shovel down against the snow, using the tongue as a lever. The arch/heel focus of pressure/weight keeps the tail engaged. Fore-aft manipulation is done by how much body weight I allow to press downward against my shin and therefore against the tongue.

There is no movement of body weight to the ball-of-foot at all. I don't think I'm alone in doing it this way. So people move pressure along the ski fore-aft differently. Moving underfoot pressure to the ball-of-foot is not a universal. Nor is what I do .

@Steve, I was hoping you would be willing to include what I do in your system.

 

[TheApprentice]

Honestly I think there should only be 3.

In order of most to least important:
Tipping
- the most important due to it putting the skis on edge. Can't really ski without this one.
Separation
- If you want grip, better have this. Both coiling/ca and angulation/cb are incredibly important if you want your skis to not feel like a pair of 2x4s
Fore-Aft
- Self explanatory. Last not because it's not important, but that I just consider the above two to be more important, as a skier can still make decent turns without good fore-aft control.

 

[Noodler]

I’m not publishing anything. I don’t often think of tongue/shin pressure but of course it’s happening.

I just like to keep it simple. When you move to the ball of the foot of course there will be more pressure on the cuff.

May not be publishing, but I think it's worth the effort to develop a movement based structure that organizes skiing in a way that makes sense to you. That's something I often do when trying to really "own" subject matter when I want to attain expert level understanding.

 

[Steve]

The Four Fundamentals of Skiing

1. Fore/Aft movements
2. Lateral movements
3. Rotational movements
4. Vertical movements



1. Fore/Aft movements - Move pressure from the center of the skis to the tips and tails through fore/aft movements. Direct pressure to the balls or heels of the feet or modulate pressure to the boot cuffs. This is done by flexing and extending the ankles, knees and hips, as well as by using the core to move the ribcage forward.

2. Lateral movements - Move from ski to ski. Tip the skis. Pressure the outside ski through lateral movements. Release the edges through lateral movements. This is done with the subtalar joints, lower legs, upper legs, as well as by moving the ribcage and shoulders laterally. It can also come from separation movements (Counteracting and counterbalancing.)

3. Rotational movements - Create torque and separation through turning different body parts. Steer the skis. Lower and upper leg movements. Upper body movements.

4. Vertical movements - Shorten and lengthen the legs, absorb terrain, manage pressure. Articulation of ankles, knees and hips.

 

[François Pugh]

Honestly I think there should only be 3.

In order of most to least important:
Tipping
- the most important due to it putting the skis on edge. Can't really ski without this one.
Separation
- If you want grip, better have this. Both coiling/ca and angulation/cb are incredibly important if you want your skis to not feel like a pair of 2x4s
Fore-Aft
- Self explanatory. Last not because it's not important, but that I just consider the above two to be more important, as a skier can still make decent turns without good fore-aft control.

I used to think so too, but after much looking into short radius non-carved turns and the mechanics of some moves and how they can end up applying a rotational force to the skis (sometimes without you even intending to), I have a more refined opinion. While I now think you can ski without the 4th, and that an emphasis on teaching the 4th may have delayed many skiers development, having a good command of the 4th opens up more options and makes you a better skier. (and by 4th, I mean third in Steve's list)

 

[Noodler]

Honestly I think there should only be 3.

In order of most to least important:
Tipping
- the most important due to it putting the skis on edge. Can't really ski without this one.
Separation
- If you want grip, better have this. Both coiling/ca and angulation/cb are incredibly important if you want your skis to not feel like a pair of 2x4s
Fore-Aft
- Self explanatory. Last not because it's not important, but that I just consider the above two to be more important, as a skier can still make decent turns without good fore-aft control.

This is an interesting take and I am giving it some attention because your skiing is at a level higher than me/most. I have never put the emphasis on the CA portion because I see so many examples of really high level skiing that not only doesn't have much CA, but sometimes clear rotation of the torso into the turns (typically for longer turns, not the shorter). However, fore/aft management is crucial to have sufficient edge grip at the right points during the turn. I'm really surprised that you feel that fore/aft isn't as important for your turns. My suspicion is that you may have great natural fore/aft alignment that didn't require a ton of work, but maybe I'm totally wrong. Either way, I'd like to hear more about why you have prioritized the list in this way.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

2. Lateral movements - Move from ski to ski. Tip the skis. Pressure the outside ski through lateral movements. Release the edges through lateral movements. This is done with the subtalar joints, lower legs, upper legs, as well as by moving the ribcage and shoulders laterally. It can also come from separation movements (Counteracting and counterbalancing.)

This sounds like two fundamentals.

 

[Steve]

How so?

Front back
Side to side
Up and down
Rotation

 

[TheApprentice]

This is an interesting take and I am giving it some attention because your skiing is at a level higher than me/most. I have never put the emphasis on the CA portion because I see so many examples of really high level skiing that not only doesn't have much CA, but sometimes clear rotation of the torso into the turns (typically for longer turns, not the shorter). However, fore/aft management is crucial to have sufficient edge grip at the right points during the turn. I'm really surprised that you feel that fore/aft isn't as important for your turns. My suspicion is that you may have great natural fore/aft alignment that didn't require a ton of work, but maybe I'm totally wrong. Either way, I'd like to hear more about why you have prioritized the list in this way.

Both kinds of counter come from the hip, rather than the shoulders. You'll find that world cup skiers don't really ca in freeskiing because they can get away with it. They're far from human. Though if you take some clips from their race runs you'll see a lot of counter. As for more freeski people such as Reilly and Paul, I see it as they're trying to make their turns look good. The kinds of turns that they like to do (I like to call them demo turns) are generally pretty long and often they're grinding towards the end. No matter how much counter you start with or try to keep throughout the turn you'll always lose it if you try to keep the turn for as long as they do.

As for fore-aft I've always been pretty central in my turns, and instead have focused a lot on counter, as it allows me to grip where I otherwise would not, such as icy steeps.
I've found that counter is more important for grip, and that fore-aft is more for bending the ski at specific points in the turn.

 

[TheApprentice]

I used to think so too, but after much looking into short radius non-carved turns and the mechanics of some moves and how they can end up applying a rotational force to the skis (sometimes without you even intending to), I have a more refined opinion. While I now think you can ski without the 4th, and that an emphasis on teaching the 4th may have delayed many skiers development, having a good command of the 4th opens up more options and makes you a better skier. (and by 4th, I mean third in Steve's list)

True that it is a good tool for teaching beginner skiers to give them some control, I think that it is something that should eventually be phased entirely out of a developing skier's technique. It may help in places such as glades or maybe moguls (though pretty sure mogul skiers don't like pushing/steering either) In a piste context it's usually best to completely forget that it exists, outside of some rare situational cases like a stivot. Though more often than not if you have to use a stivot you're either avoiding someone on the hill or you have made a mistake in your speed control.

 

[jimtransition]

The four movements described in the original post are how the NZSIA describes their system.

The manual is available online if anyone wants to learn more http://www.nzsia.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/54756-NZSIA-Ski-Instructors-Manual-2019-Inside.pdf

 

[Steve]

No wonder I like kiwi so much!

 

[Scruffy]

As for fore-aft I've always been pretty central in my turns, and instead have focused a lot on counter, as it allows me to grip where I otherwise would not, such as icy steeps.
I've found that counter is more important for grip, and that fore-aft is more for bending the ski at specific points in the turn.

Counter is king for grip.

I think you'd have to work really hard to counter/angulate in isolation from fore/aft. Remember, the average human head weighs ~11lbs. Angulation, as defined in a carved ski turn, moves the COM fore and down the fall line. That's not to say you can't have for/aft movements outside of counter/angulation.

 

[JESinstr]

Counter "Happens"

 

[Noodler]

For "some" of us, it's incomplete to just say "counter". Are we talking about counterbalancing or counter-action? They are distinctly separate skills, however, the movements to fully execute both in a turn are blended.

 

[markojp]

Counter is king for grip.

Platform angle is king, queen, president, poohbah, and dictator for life of grip.

 

[LiquidFeet]

There's counter. And there's angulation.
Yes, these are old terms, but they are not confusing.

Everytime I hear counteracting and counterbalancing I have to untangle the two and translate them back to counter and angulation.

Counter and angulation happen together, or should. And they both increase and decrease in a progressive manner, or they should. And their purpose when used together is to get grip though platform angle manipulation, which we don't teach often enough. That grip contributes to the skier's ability to stay on the intended line.

 

[markojp]

Counter "Happens"

Yep. It's a resultant of allowing one's CoM to move toward and over one's BoS.

 

[markojp]

I’m not publishing anything. I don’t often think of tongue/shin pressure but of course it’s happening.

I just like to keep it simple. When you move to the ball of the foot of course there will be more pressure on the cuff.

Why ski on the ball of the foot? (Yes, I understand levering at the ball vs. closing the ankle.)

 

[Scruffy]

Platform angle is king, queen, president, poohbah, and dictator for life of grip.

No argument there.