The Never-Ending Stöckli Discussion

[LindseyB]

Hmm, a lady of a certain age, 160cm 50kg, walks a lot and fast, not a gym rat. Skis groomers fast, meanders through trees, fine in light boot-deep powder but struggles in off-piste crud. Daily driver is a 154 Volkl Yumi; off-piste a 153 Salomon Rockette 90, which is showing its age. Skis mostly at Niseko/Furano and Nozawa Onsen.
She really like the Stöcklis she skied two seasons ago In Engleberg & Davos, but I don't remember exactly what she was on. I think she was an SC and a Stormrider 85, and one or two others.
Appreciate any suggestions you have.

Either would work in this case. My wife sounds similar and skis the 96 for powder and the SC for cruiser days. She also likes the 88 for in between days. If she can only get one I would go for the 88.

 

[Henry]

I liked the video. On my trip to Austria in January I may rent the Laser SC. (Lufthansa has the most expensive ski baggage rates!)

Lindsey, when will the incremental improvements in the Laser AX get to the point where I want to replace my great 2017 AX for more WOW factor? Technology marches on.

My appreciation for Swiss technology started in 1988 when I trained in Winterthur (near Zurich) for Sulzer's 57,500 hp diesel engines. It was great. We toured parts of Switzerland that summer, and I skied Zermatt and Davos a few years ago. They were wonderful--Zermatt is special. As soon as this virus is in the rear view mirror I want to take my wife on a summer trip to the Wengen region.

 

[Jim McDonald]

Thanks @LindseyB

 

[AmyPJ]

Either would work in this case. My wife sounds similar and skis the 96 for powder and the SC for cruiser days. She also likes the 88 for in between days. If she can only get one I would go for the 88.

Your wife and I should ski together this season. It’s easy to get pushed out of one’s comfort zone at Snowbasin and it gets deflating when you ski with upper advanced to expert skiers all the time.

 

[James]

I liked the video. On my trip to Austria in January I may rent the Laser SC. (Lufthansa has the most expensive ski baggage rates!)

Lindsey, when will the incremental improvements in the Laser AX get to the point where I want to replace my great 2017 AX for more WOW factor? Technology marches on.

My appreciation for Swiss technology started in 1988 when I trained in Winterthur (near Zurich) for Sulzer's 57,500 hp diesel engines. It was great. We toured parts of Switzerland that summer, and I skied Zermatt and Davos a few years ago. They were wonderful--Zermatt is special. As soon as this virus is in the rear view mirror I want to take my wife on a summer trip to the Wengen region.

There’s a section in this book (non fiction) you’d like. It’s about a place in Switzerland where ship captains and pilots go to train on ship handling, especially in confined waterways. They use large scale models on a big pond. Plus inside I think. It’s very interesting. It’s to avoid debacles like happened in the Suez canal .

 

[Paul Lutes]

I

I bought some this year via order. Can't wait to try them! Will post a review when I do.

Yah; got mine last week, after 10 days of "severe weather delay"

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Nicely done!
Heh, drones make Rt 100 to Stowe, or Cochran’s, look exotic.
Graphics are looking good.
Still my favorite graphic, from like 2015, Motion 85-

View attachment 142781

Amazing skis with great graphics. Plan on buying a 2020 to replace my current pair which are the 2016s with this topsheet. I'm going to miss these graphics.

 

[Berend]

eup in it. Are there any major changes to the SX (and AX), or did they just get new topsheets. I picked up AR's this season and love them, looking to complete the quiver with something narrow as well and the SX is definitely a contender. I'll be in Davos next week with plenty of places to demo the entire Stöckli lineup, which ones would you suggest i'll demo?

The base bevels on the SR for the past 5 years has moved around a bit. The current ones are below. I give out the tune specs relunctantly, because what the factory says is 1.3 may be a half degreee different on someone else's machines. Also, the base bevels have been changing for the past few years. Base bevels are up for debate on what works best. Also the texture on the base edge can have a bigger effect that bevel sometimes and people might blame a hanging burr or a heavily structured base edge for being flat when it may not be. Even crazier, having a rough base edge sometimes works better in certain snow textures.

View attachment 89174 This is what the factory says the angles are. Some of the skis I think do really well with the factory bevels, Some I prefer flatter. For instance, I like an AX with a 1/2. I like an SR105 with a 1.4/2. Also, I checked a factory AR the other day and while it says 1.4. It looked closer to a 1 to me. So this may not be as definitive as many would like.

For this reason, when I find a base bevel and edge texture that I like, I try my best to keep it and reproduce it. I think this is one of the biggest challenges in skiing and one of the greatest rewards when it goes right. Different mountains need different base edges because they have differing snow structures. Anyone can do a decent side edge, if you find a tuner that can produce base bevels you love, treat them like gold.

As discussed earlier, a progressive base bevel can be a thing of beauty.

I am planning to buy the AX 2015 version, a bit older but I guess it's still a pretty good choice anno 2021. Found a guy who only used them for two weeks and the skies are therefore visually and technically in perfect shape. Will see the guy in a week or two to check the ski's out. Two questions:

1. Do you guys think this its worth spending €350,- to €400 on a pair of (barely) used laser AX? Or spend that amout on something newer/else?

2. How do the specs and behaviour of the AX2015 model (some say that is the followup from the 2014 AR model) differ from the 2020 AX model?

2a. Is the edge tuning similar to the AX stats posted earlier by @LindseyB?

Reviews of the 2015 model are great in my opinion.. but sometimes people refer to these ski as if only die 'hard experts' could enjoy these on 'rocket speed'... on the other hand I read about versitality.. what do you think?

I have spend +-15 weeks (over 15 years) skiing in my life, 194 cm tall, 90kg, and looking into the 175cm AX model from 2015. I would like a ski that facilitates the most smooth and playfull ride possible, maximum ease of use/turning and a lots of control/stability, actually on all speed levels. longer than 180 cm can make ski's feel big/heavy therefore I am planning to go for 175 CM. You think the AX 175cm from 2015 is a good match?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

 

[Tony Storaro]

Do you guys think this its worth spending €300,- to €400 on a pair of (barely) used laser AX?

Well, for what it's worth I spent 1000+ euros on my AX and never regretted it. Not once.

 

[James]

Do you guys think this its worth spending €350,- to €400 on a pair of (barely) used laser AX? Or spend that amout on something newer/else?

Yes.

Is the edge tuning similar to the AX stats posted earlier by

We consider that tuning an abomination.

Have them tuned at 1deg base, 2 deg side.
If you are into a quicker response go 0.75 base, 2 side
Want more grip, sharp feel, go 3 side.
You can’t lessen a base bevel, just increase. Lessening requires re-grinding the base. So you could start out at 0.75.

 

[LindseyB]

I am planning to buy the AX 2015 version, a bit older but I guess it's still a pretty good choice anno 2021. Found a guy who only used them for two weeks and the skies are therefore visually and technically in perfect shape. Will see the guy in a week or two to check the ski's out. Two questions:

1. Do you guys think this its worth spending €350,- to €400 on a pair of (barely) used laser AX? Or spend that amout on something newer/else?

2. How do the specs and behaviour of the AX2015 model (some say that is the followup from the 2014 AR model) differ from the 2020 AX model?

2a. Is the edge tuning similar to the AX stats posted earlier by @LindseyB?

Reviews of the 2015 model are great in my opinion.. but sometimes people refer to these ski as if only die 'hard experts' could enjoy these on 'rocket speed'... on the other hand I read about versitality.. what do you think?

I have spend +-15 weeks (over 15 years) skiing in my life, 194 cm tall, 90kg, and looking into the 175cm AX model from 2015. I would like a ski that facilitates the most smooth and playfull ride possible, maximum ease of use/turning and a lots of control/stability, actually on all speed levels. longer than 180 cm can make ski's feel big/heavy therefore I am planning to go for 175 CM. You think the AX 175cm from 2015 is a good match?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

For that price, just get them and enjoy. Don't overthink it. You will love them. The edges on that ski stock spec should be 1 base, 2 side.

 

[Jeronimo]

East coast groomer, edge to edge turner: Between the Laser SC and the WRT ST, which one and why? I see more love for the WRT ST but I worry its too stiff and requires too much attention to spend a whole day on.

 

[Tony Storaro]

East coast groomer, edge to edge turner: Between the Laser SC and the WRT ST, which one and why? I see more love for the WRT ST but I worry its too stiff and requires too much attention to spend a whole day on.

Depends. Do you want to smile happily and quietly or laugh hysterically due to the adrenaline rush?
Do you want a fire-breathing BMW M5 or will be happy with a tamer, standard 5 series?
Only you can know these things.

 

[Peter P]

Park City Ski Swap is coming up Nov 5-7th ... I wonder if there will be a good selection of Stockli's there?
I will be selling my brand new 2020 WRT SX (FIS) skis with WRT 19 bindings + WRT plate. These skis have never touched snow. No base grinding or prep either - straight from factory. I got them to use in the Masters program but never got around to it because of Covid. I am going to stick with NASTER so don't need these skis anymore. Asking $1,000. I would like to get 2021/22 Laser GS instead.

 

[switters]

Hi Stöckli fans, I am selling my 2021 Stormrider 88s (184 cm) with Tyroilia Attack2 13 bindings. They're in great condition, other than some cosmetic scuffs and scratches on the top sheets. I probably skied about 6-8 days total on them last year.

I'm in Park City, so if anyone is planning to come to the ski swap we can meet there. Otherwise, I'm happy to ship. Check out the listing here.

 

[CascadeLuke]

Greetings. You all don't know me but I've been lurking - and you're partly responsible for my recent Stockli obsession. Started out with some '20 SR 95s and had a blast using them in the PNW on relevant days- then added some bargain '16 SR 88s. My enthusiasm of SR 95 and the spring action of 2020 led to SR105s and ARs but both are still in the wrapper. Have been doing a lot of gear (over) analysis this off season and think I'm going to do my brother-in-law a solid and put him on the 105s to get him back in the ski spirit, full force again. He started obsessing over them in my gear room and wants to buy them. Plus he's a big guy who can work em.
Which has led to my recent grab.. new SR 95s. Boy are the topsheets beautiful! Couple notes and perhaps a question for Lindsey; I noticed the new tip has less early rise that the outgoing model? Also they weigh about 80-90gs less per ski in 184. Are these design goals or fluctuation in manufacturing? While I need to reserve judgement for the snow - these are not tweaks I am particularly jazzed about.

Let the countdown to the season begin. Cheers

 

[Tony Storaro]

these are not tweaks I am particularly jazzed about.

Reading into your concerns and while we wait for the opinion of someone who is really heavily into the matter like Lindsay....can I suggest something...as I was worried by exactly the same things you are-I just went out, searched the hell out of the Interwebs and found an excellent deal on pair of the tartan SR95s. That'll make them 18/19 season I believe.

You know, just an idea...just to be on the safe side...

 

[dcoral]

Thoughts to help me decide between Laser AX, WRT SX, WRT SX FIS, WRT ST, and GS? I'm 5'9" 190 lbs and been skiing on 205cm Rossignol Dualtec Generation GS racing skis (95/62/82) for the past 20 years. I did a little bit of GS ski racing back in college and kept them as my recreational skis, as I love the stability and feeling the G's, and just being a bit different than everyone else by skiing on really long "vintage" race skis. Now that our toddler kids are learning and will be doing more family skiing, I need something that I can also have fun with when I'm going slower. I just bought the 184cm Mantra M6 for all-mountain days, and now looking to add a Stockli carver for the hard packed icy days. Ideally I hope to have a similar high stability on rails feeling that I get from the 205cm Rossignol, but with a wider variety of turn radius at slower speeds. I would like to avoid the squirrely feeling that I get from shorter and/or large sidecut skis that I've demo'd in the past. I'm kinda leaning toward the AX because it sounds like a GS ski with some added versatility in all speeds, all conditions. Although I feel like I should have something in the narrower category for the 2nd new pair of skis so it's tricky to decide.

 

[KingGrump]

Thoughts to help me decide between Laser AX, WRT SX, WRT SX FIS, WRT ST, and GS? I'm 5'9" 190 lbs and been skiing on 205cm Rossignol Dualtec Generation GS racing skis (95/62/82) for the past 20 years. I did a little bit of GS ski racing back in college and kept them as my recreational skis, as I love the stability and feeling the G's, and just being a bit different than everyone else by skiing on really long "vintage" race skis. Now that our toddler kids are learning and will be doing more family skiing, I need something that I can also have fun with when I'm going slower. I just bought the 184cm Mantra M6 for all-mountain days, and now looking to add a Stöckli carver for the hard packed icy days. Ideally I hope to have a similar high stability on rails feeling that I get from the 205cm Rossignol, but with a wider variety of turn radius at slower speeds. I would like to avoid the squirrely feeling that I get from shorter and/or large sidecut skis that I've demo'd in the past. I'm kinda leaning toward the AX because it sounds like a GS ski with some added versatility in all speeds, all conditions. Although I feel like I should have something in the narrower category for the 2nd new pair of skis so it's tricky to decide.

First of all, if you are looking for a GS ski. Regardless what have been said. The AX ain't it.

Not to be rude, but lots of the rambling in your post just don't jive. Straight ski experience does not translate well into the current gen of skis.
Used to be on 205 SL skis in the last century. Now, I am perfectly happy on a pair of 157/165 FIS SL and everything in between. go figure. Don't get hung up on size.
20 Years is a long time. Best to leave the memories and baggage be and start anew.

 

[Tony S]

First of all, if you are looking for a GS ski. Regardless what have been said. The AX ain't it.

Not to be rude, but lots of the rambling in your post just don't jive. Straight ski experience does not translate well into the current gen of skis.
Used to be on 205 SL skis in the last century. Now, I am perfectly happy on a pair of 157/165 FIS SL and everything in between. go figure. Don't get hung up on size.
20 Years is a long time. Best to leave the memories and baggage be and start anew.

No one can do tough love like the Grump.