Mid-Atlantic The Neverending Timberline, WV: Info, Weather, and Stoke

[pipestem]

I did not see any discouragement of off or cross trail skiing, despite some negative signage. A small remnant of Silver Streak remains behind old lift shack, just enough to see it was fun. I see they have also eliminated Thunderdraft, Lower White Lightning, and done some rerouting around those 'terrain parks - since I was last there in 2021. This is becoming alarming!

 

[dbostedo]

I see they have also eliminated Thunderdraft, Lower White Lightning

Thunderdraft hasn't been on the map since the the new lift went in. It's still signed on the mountain as of last season. Lower White Lightning was still there this past season, though not open the couple of days I was there. I didn't realize it wasn't on the map - that's interesting. Maybe they'll let some trees grow and consider it part of Glade Runner.

 

[pipestem]

Love these signs... iirc, they had turned Lower Whte into a terrain park, blocking off the normal entracle and providing a small portal through the trees futher down. Most people either missed it or crashed trying to make the sharp left. That was ok since there was only about one feature, so I don't think many people went twice. Or maybe that was the next slope over - Woods? - not sure.

Regardless, I woudld buy the old signs. Maybe I should make my own for the backyard.

 

[JohnL]

Thunderdraft hasn't been on the map since the the new lift went in. It's still signed on the mountain as of last season. Lower White Lightning was still there this past season, though not open the couple of days I was there. I didn't realize it wasn't on the map - that's interesting. Maybe they'll let some trees grow and consider it part of Glade Runner.

It seems that any non-glade trail that doesn't have snowmaking on it is no longer on the map. So they can claim the 100% open more often.

Thunderdraft (upper and middle) not being on the trail map may also have to do with insurance company/safety guys. They removed trees from Thunder to facilitate lift evacs, presumably requested by insurance company. With likely ski patrol input. Maybe a subtle difference between actively prohibiting (via ropes and barriers) versus permitting on occasion in a somewhat unofficial manner. If that makes sense.

 

[dbostedo]

If that makes sense.

Yeah, it does. Nothing wrong with "unofficial trails", IMO.

 

[cantunamunch]

What is the current mgmt's policy on uphill travel? Designated only? "Unofficial trails" only? None during open hours?

 

[Johnfmh]

What is the current mgmt's policy on uphill travel? Designated only? "Unofficial trails" only? None during open hours?

Happy 4th. I don’t think there is an official policy as of yet. I occasionally see them on Sally, but don’t know if there is an official policy. Sally seems to be the perfect uphill trail, but there are some issues. There is a lot of last minute grooming and snowmaking on that trail in the morning before the lifts start spinning. Once the lifts are spinning, uphill skiers run the risk of getting clobbered by out of control downhillers. The level of skiing at TM is a bit better than in the past but still not great. You have to be very cautious where you stop on any slope at TM, but especially Sally. Uphill skiers are more pins for a bowling alley.

 

[SCWVA]

What is the current mgmt's policy on uphill travel? Designated only? "Unofficial trails" only? None during open hours?

Interesting conversation last night with an individual from Indiana about tree skiing and bumps at PN and TLM. The individual said tree skiing and bumps is not a thing at PN, just parks and groomers. If tree skiing and bumps aren't on TLM's radar, I doubt uphill skiing is even a consideration.

I also heard that TLM has a new park manager and they plan on putting a huge emphasis on creating bigger and better parks this coming season.

 

[cantunamunch]

. If tree skiing and bumps aren't on TLM's radar, I doubt uphill skiing is even a consideration.

If it isn't, they're being deliberately deaf to the proximity to all-uphill all-the-time Whitegrass, and that all those uphill-traveling WG skiers come over to TLM when there isn't natural snow cover. (There's even a connector trail when there is enough natural snow).

 

[Johnfmh]

The uphill skiing piece has some appeal for people like me who rarely get to WG, but wouldn't mind making uphill skiing part of their exercise regime. Seems like a stair master on steroids.

BTW, Stuart Winchester's interview with GM Tom Price hopefully will drop next weekend on the Storm Skiing Podcast. Hopefully much will be revealed then.

The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast | Stuart Winchester | Substack

Everyone’s searching for skiing’s soul. I’m trying to find its brains. Click to read The Storm Skiing Journal and Podcast, by Stuart Winchester, a Substack publication with tens of thousands of subscribers.

www.stormskiing.com

 

[Cameron]

Interesting conversation last night with an individual from Indiana about tree skiing and bumps at PN and TLM. The individual said tree skiing and bumps is not a thing at PN, just parks and groomers. If tree skiing and bumps aren't on TLM's radar, I doubt uphill skiing is even a consideration.

I also heard that TLM has a new park manager and they plan on putting a huge emphasis on creating bigger and better parks this coming season.

They’ve had tree runs at PNS but they have proven difficult to maintain with the wild swings in winter weather. They do let runs bump up, particularly during stretches of extensive snowmaking but again with frequent freeze/thaw cycles it’s difficult to maintain a decent experience for customers. There is also the volume of skiers/boarders that PNS sees. Od guess that on a busy Saturday the hill can probably see upwards of 8-10k people.

 

[RickH]

Pod cast with Tom Price GM Timberline available Tuesday, unless you pay

 

[RickH]

Podcast #136: Timberline, West Virginia General Manager Tom Price

“Snowmaking, snowmaking, snowmaking”

substack.com

Good listen to the thoughts of what Timberline is doing this year and into the future. Fixing the unloading on the quad is a great idea, it can be a disaster with the beginners, but also they need to move people out of the way. Skiers mostly beginners I guess just seem to stand there in the way.

 

[pipestem]

That fixed grip quad seems to run veerryyy slowly, like an homage to the prior facilities. We only rode it once for the novelty! Might be more useful if they moved the terrain park to that area.

 

[Johnfmh]

Just listened to it. Here are my main takeways:

• Focus now is on improving the snowmaking with the goal of fixed guns on most of the main trails and the ability to open the mountain with 48-72 hours of favorable weather. 9:11 “It is more about limiting downtime and getting up to full capacity . . . It’s about brute force in the early season and making as much snow as we can.” They hope that they can blow 80% of the mountain all at once next season. Currently it’s 60%. But a lot depends on wet bulb temperature, wind, time of day, etc.
• No new chairlifts for now but maybe in the future.
• Unload platform for the quad is being re-done to make unloading easier for beginners. It will not run at full speed because of the beginner issue.
• No lighting from the top this year but the Wintersett trail will be lit. They want to grow the night skiiing over time and see potential in it.
• No terrain expansion for now. They own 200 acres on the west side of the mountain but the western exposure is not optimal for snow preservation. They would rather focus terrain expansion on the main face. HOWEVER, making snow faster on the main trails is the current focus.
• They are aiming for a season running from Thanksgiving to St. Patrick’s day..
• They have no interest for now in joining the Indy Pass or any other national pass. They also are not currently interested in a new Ski the Valley ticket. He said PNS‘s business model is selling day tickets and not passes. It’s the opposite of Vail’s pass based business model.
• Price talked about expanding day lodge capacity but there was no mention of a base village or expanding overnight accommodations.
• Possible rope tow for one or both terrain parks.
• Price wants to somehow expand beginner terrain.
• No plans to improve the Cherry Bowl because some of it sits on Forrest Service land. However, he does want to improve other gladed areas of the mountain.
• All told, PNS has invested $20 million in the mountain with more investments to come. They are pleased with the business being generated and want to grow Timberline organically. This is not a pump and dump group. They are not interested in selling to Vail or Altera. They are farmers who understand that some years will produce bumper crops and others will be less fruitful.

Great discussion overall. Price seemed very relaxed and earnest. His clear focus is on the ski experience and how to improve it. I feel fortunate that he is managing the mountain but more fortunate for the PNS ownership. I wish more resorts were run the same way with the focus on skiing and snowboarding and to heck with everything else.

 

[Cameron]

I just hope someone brings some more affordable lodging options to the valley because the current market has just about priced my family of 3 out.

 

[dbostedo]

I just hope someone brings some more affordable lodging options to the valley because the current market has just about priced my family of 3 out.

I'd guess the answer is just more lodging options. More competition will mean lower prices. If everything is booked on winter weekends, it will mean high prices.

 

[JohnL]

I just hope someone brings some more affordable lodging options to the valley because the current market has just about priced my family of 3 out.

Wouldn't count on that happening in near future. Lots of land is state or federally protected up there. Affordable housing for workers is an even bigger issue.

 

[RickH]

There are plans and building underway to add rental places where the old stable was and the cleared land on timberline road just past the winterset entrance.

 

[jimmy]

That fixed grip quad seems to run veerryyy slowly, like an homage to the prior facilities. We only rode it once for the novelty! Might be more useful if they moved the terrain park to that area.

Move the terrain park and put the a beginner lift back into Woods Hole. That would solve the we need more space for beginners problem.