To BOA or not to BOA (we have real world insight)

[CascadeConcrete]

Personally I still think that Zay has more potential because of the way in which the closure is attached to the cuff so that when the boot is flexed the cables 'shorten', wrapping the shell more tightly around the foot.

I haven't used these, so obviously can't speak from experience. But I'm not convinced I'd want the tightness/fit to change as I'm skiing. Once I get my boots set up the way I want, I just want them to stay that way.

 

[Philpug]

That bubble gum pink on women's K2 boot is horrid.

Horridly good.

 

[nay]

I wonder if this ultimately becomes more about the lower clog design than the cable system itself. One of my “I love it so it had to go away” life experiences was Salomon introducing the “endofit“ tongue and then abandoning it. The idea behind that design was to mimic how the tongue works as a fixed component of the shell (something of a hybrid cabrio/overlap design) in Salomon’s trail running shoes, which while not a trail runner I have found are ideal for my feet. I bought that boot sight unseen purely because of how much those shoes had done for me in basic activities like hiking.

On that boot, which I still ski because I bought a second set to forestall the inevitable ”progress” in design, the lower clog is much more anatomical to the slope of the foot, and at least for me, when dialed in I have consistent pressure from top of toes to ankle. Notably, because the boot is not an overlap roof, but rather a fixed tongue, tightening the lower buckles mostly pulls the sides up and over the tongue, sorta like when you BOA (verb) up a running shoe.

Using a softer material above the instep with the BOA system seems to be designed to accomplish something similar, without needing any special design. While people here are used to punch this and pound that to tweak boots, most people really just want stuff to fit off the shelf, at least to the extent you have feet within some standard deviation to ‘normal’.

If, and I think this is the big if, you value light equipment for resort use, there should be presumed value to getting a ski boot clog more anatomical not just in things like 6th toe, but even modestly looking like the shape of an actual foot in a lightweight design this is focused on wrapping under lacing rather than rigid with punchout work. Can you imagine having any other shoe that looks nothing like the shape of your foot but supposedly doesn’t create pressure points or fit gaps?

Anyway, this is the dearly departed endofit. It’s easy to see how the second buckle snugs the boot into the midfoot without crushing the instep. If Salomon had put BOA on this design, I’d be first in line to get my foot in one, noting the boot always needed a bit more rearward support.

 

[Tony S]

ummm you've ridden enough bikes to know which way pedals tighten. Top towards the back wheel to undo not internal yet?

I totally have ridden enough bikes to know this. And I do. But it's still a conscious prices every time.

(I've never stripped pedal threads in the crank arm, but I DID - when I was like 16 - strip the threads where the crank puller goes, on an old alloy square taper crank set. Took off the dust cover but forgot to remove the actual nut holding the arm into the axle. Then I went to town with the puller and destroyed the threads.)

 

[Stephen]

First off I think boot testing should only be done above 10 degrees. Now that we’ve covered that let’s talk about the actual boots. BOA is the main question I guess but I feel like it can sidetrack from the rest of the boot. I currently ski the Fischer RC4 podium 140 and at first impressions this new Fischer RC4 MV130 boot felt very soft. Start of the day was the same as normal for my boots. Same heated boot bag. Same low setting. Same time in the bag. The new Fischer went on like an old worn out slipper after coming out of my boot bag. That felt nice. Once I was buckled(and BOA’d) I found the flex to be extremely squishy. The flex did firm up after a few runs and seemed to be a fairly standard 130 flex although maybe on the soft side. The ease of which I got them off later helped make me lean towards the opinion of them being a bit soft. The power strap as per usual leaves a lot to be desired. It is a basic strap with no elasticity and no real way to cinch it down. It’s my understanding that it is almost expected that it will be replaced with a different strap so why bother with a good strap. Case in point, the first thing I would do if I was getting this boot as my own would be to change out the power strap.
The night before when trying them on, I tried them with my old liners. The old liners helped me feel where some of the hot spots were inside the boot. I could only feel some of them with the new liners due the the new cushy padding however it wouldn’t take long to start feeling it with the new liners as well. The boot fit normal with no new hot spots other than my usual. My biggest concern for this boot is one of the spots I usually need a decent punch on a boot is right at the base of the BOA dial. The Fischer rep had explained that the boot is designed specifically for BOA. “They didn’t just stick BOA on the old shell.” The rep explained that the boot is reinforced with thicker plastic under the dial to account for the tension. My concern lies in trying to make adjustments to the boot in that specific spot without compromising the integrity of the BOA.
If those concerns can be mitigated, I’m actually a fan of the BOA. It’s quick and efficient. I like the uniformity of it as it’s tightened down. Being able to adjust so easily based on sodium intake seems to be a plus as well. No more micro adjust twisting buckles just to need to tighten them down again later. It’s also easier to adjust with mittens on than the buckles are. It’s all minor improvements to something I don’t necessarily think was “broken” but improvements are improvements. Whether BOA becomes a long term thing is yet to be seen. I’m sure time will tell on the possibility of other drawbacks but for now, I’m team BOA

 

[dovski]

As far as BOA on the cuff... I think getting the cable open enough to get in and out of the shell is the main issue.

You know they also have Boa Pants

Now just imagine one of these on a pair of ski pants for that Thanksgiving Ski trip ... you could unwind that Boa one click with each course during Thanksgiving dinner lol

 

[markojp]

View attachment 191544

Report back at 100.

 

[Tricia]

This is a very big selling point for me. I already mentioned in the other threat that I'm very interested and this just increases it. I have some flexibility and mobility issues and I really struggle with getting my boot gloves on my boot after the boot is on but with buckles, there's no way to do it before. With the boa, it sounds like you could have the boot glove on the boot, slide in, then adjust with no issue.

The other part is that I rarely buckle the buckles on the foot so the BOA with no tension on it would be less annoying than buckles flapping around.

I have two days in the boot. Reach out to me directly if you want to take a closer look.

 

[Tricia]

First off I think boot testing should only be done above 10 degrees. Now that we’ve covered that let’s talk about the actual boots. BOA is the main question I guess but I feel like it can sidetrack from the rest of the boot. I currently ski the Fischer RC4 podium 140 and at first impressions this new Fischer RC4 MV130 boot felt very soft. Start of the day was the same as normal for my boots. Same heated boot bag. Same low setting. Same time in the bag. The new Fischer went on like an old worn out slipper after coming out of my boot bag. That felt nice. Once I was buckled(and BOA’d) I found the flex to be extremely squishy. The flex did firm up after a few runs and seemed to be a fairly standard 130 flex although maybe on the soft side. The ease of which I got them off later helped make me lean towards the opinion of them being a bit soft. The power strap as per usual leaves a lot to be desired. It is a basic strap with no elasticity and no real way to cinch it down. It’s my understanding that it is almost expected that it will be replaced with a different strap so why bother with a good strap. Case in point, the first thing I would do if I was getting this boot as my own would be to change out the power strap.
The night before when trying them on, I tried them with my old liners. The old liners helped me feel where some of the hot spots were inside the boot. I could only feel some of them with the new liners due the the new cushy padding however it wouldn’t take long to start feeling it with the new liners as well. The boot fit normal with no new hot spots other than my usual. My biggest concern for this boot is one of the spots I usually need a decent punch on a boot is right at the base of the BOA dial. The Fischer rep had explained that the boot is designed specifically for BOA. “They didn’t just stick BOA on the old shell.” The rep explained that the boot is reinforced with thicker plastic under the dial to account for the tension. My concern lies in trying to make adjustments to the boot in that specific spot without compromising the integrity of the BOA.
If those concerns can be mitigated, I’m actually a fan of the BOA. It’s quick and efficient. I like the uniformity of it as it’s tightened down. Being able to adjust so easily based on sodium intake seems to be a plus as well. No more micro adjust twisting buckles just to need to tighten them down again later. It’s also easier to adjust with mittens on than the buckles are. It’s all minor improvements to something I don’t necessarily think was “broken” but improvements are improvements. Whether BOA becomes a long term thing is yet to be seen. I’m sure time will tell on the possibility of other drawbacks but for now, I’m team BOA

I'm with you on this.
I'm not saying that BOA is the saving grace of ski boots but I've got two full days in my Salomon Supra boots and I really like how the area over the instep is uniform.
I hope to try a few other brands as they become available to me.
Maybe its not the "be all, end all", but its an option that will likely work for many.

 

[skipress]

I haven't used these, so obviously can't speak from experience. But I'm not convinced I'd want the tightness/fit to change as I'm skiing. Once I get my boots set up the way I want, I just want them to stay that way.

It's not so much that it changes as is constant; many boots as you flex squish out, the clog widens mid foot. The zay as you flex it simply counters that

 

[Tom K.]

I'm not saying that BOA is the saving grace of ski boots

I was thinking of BOAs today. I don't need much or any lower clog buckle tension when I've got the fit I like, so I'm constantly twiddling those buckles throughout the day to keep just enough tension to keep moisture out.

Often, I look down when loading, and see one or two have popped out.......I'd love to just reach down and twiddle ONE knob.

 

[Philpug]

Often, I look down when loading, and see one or two have popped out.......I'd love to just reach down and twiddle ONE knob.

I agree. my bottom buckes tend to be finger tight and it was not uncommon to pop that second buckle. That won't be the case with the BOA.

 

[cantunamunch]

...I'd love to just reach down and twiddle ONE knob.

Still talking about ski boots, are we?

 

[Tony S]

Another angle: As someone with a smaller shell size, I consistently have an issue where the lower cuff buckle suffers interference from the upper clog buckle during flexing. I'm not totally sure exactly how this impacts the "user experience," but commonsensically it can't be good. Presumably the BOA would eliminate this problem.

 

[Tricia]

I was thinking of BOAs today. I don't need much or any lower clog buckle tension when I've got the fit I like, so I'm constantly twiddling those buckles throughout the day to keep just enough tension to keep moisture out.

Often, I look down when loading, and see one or two have popped out.......I'd love to just reach down and twiddle ONE knob.

IMHO this is the area where the BOA system is ideal.
I have a super high instep and deal with tension issues when I'm breaking in a new boot, and I regularly have to do some modifications to the tongue or boot board to make room for my instep. I've had one boot EVER that I didn't need to to these modifications which is the K2 Anthem Pro (120 flex).

This Salomon Supra has been good in the instep area with even pressure when I click the BOA.
The areas I'm having an issue are not related to the BOA but the overall volume of the boot that was available to me for now.

These are all things I'd have to deal with in any boot of this size/volume.

 

[Tricia]

Another angle: As someone with a smaller shell size, I consistently have an issue where the lower cuff buckle suffers interference from the upper clog buckle during flexing. I'm not totally sure exactly how this impacts the "user experience," but commonsensically it can't be good. Presumably the BOA would eliminate this problem.

The BOA is out of the way of any buckle issues in the scenario that you're describing.

 

[vtmecheng]

That bubble gum pink on women's K2 boot is horrid.

The thing my wife hates about woman’s specific items, the design is to “shrink it and pink it.”

 

[ted]

I wonder if this ultimately becomes more about the lower clog design than the cable system itself. One of my “I love it so it had to go away” life experiences was Salomon introducing the “endofit“ tongue and then abandoning it. The idea behind that design was to mimic how the tongue works as a fixed component of the shell (something of a hybrid cabrio/overlap design) in Salomon’s trail running shoes, which while not a trail runner I have found are ideal for my feet. I bought that boot sight unseen purely because of how much those shoes had done for me in basic activities like hiking.

On that boot, which I still ski because I bought a second set to forestall the inevitable ”progress” in design, the lower clog is much more anatomical to the slope of the foot, and at least for me, when dialed in I have consistent pressure from top of toes to ankle. Notably, because the boot is not an overlap roof, but rather a fixed tongue, tightening the lower buckles mostly pulls the sides up and over the tongue, sorta like when you BOA (verb) up a running shoe.

Using a softer material above the instep with the BOA system seems to be designed to accomplish something similar, without needing any special design. While people here are used to punch this and pound that to tweak boots, most people really just want stuff to fit off the shelf, at least to the extent you have feet within some standard deviation to ‘normal’.

If, and I think this is the big if, you value light equipment for resort use, there should be presumed value to getting a ski boot clog more anatomical not just in things like 6th toe, but even modestly looking like the shape of an actual foot in a lightweight design this is focused on wrapping under lacing rather than rigid with punchout work. Can you imagine having any other shoe that looks nothing like the shape of your foot but supposedly doesn’t create pressure points or fit gaps?

Anyway, this is the dearly departed endofit. It’s easy to see how the second buckle snugs the boot into the midfoot without crushing the instep. If Salomon had put BOA on this design, I’d be first in line to get my foot in one, noting the boot always needed a bit more rearward support.

View attachment 191576 View attachment 191577

Agree that this design had high potential. Too bad Salomon (actually the market) abandoned it.

 

[Dwight]

@Tricia How often have you skied other Salomon ski boots, to compare against current Salomon models?

 

[markojp]

Agree that this design had high potential. Too bad Salomon (actually the market) abandoned it.

If you only knew how many of these designs failed and were warranteed... they were also anything but progressive in flex.