eBike USFS Designates E-Bikes “Motorized Vehicles”

[Rod9301]

Beyond the usual NIMBY arguments (which amount to variants of local or old-timer privilege) this. If there is a problem with eBikes it's likely because of US "supersize" attitudes which has led manufacturers to overpower spec them. A bike which is ridden (and only capable of being ridden) at "trad" speeds is not much more of a threat than any new biker (and I hear the moans from the trad riders and think - yeah straight skis, plus give up your suspension and 29er wheels and droppers and trick rubber and long geometry etc).

A bike ridden more like a moto - sure should be limited in locations, a bike which gives a rider a small boost enabling them to ride more safely or more often or to get to the places they used to be able to go? Feels more than a little elitist and non diverse to shut those people out.

Most mtn e bikes are class1

 

[Rod9301]

eBikes only really help with climbing. They do not really help with handling and if anything the extra weight degrades the handling of the bike. New users will quickly find out that it is not as easy as driving/riding a car and will move on or ride on easy trails. MTB trails are and will be MTB trails regardless. The only objection I really have is the added noise from the mechanism but again, a lot of analog MTBs are not exactly quiet but the hub noise is accepted I guess. The weight of the eBikes and the costs are limiters in their own right. Specially in the MTB eBike world.

Keep in mind, I ride and will keep riding an analog MTB. But I can see how eMTBs can make the sport a bit more accessible to those recovering from injury, training and getting in shape. Those are all positive things. To be clear I am only talking about Class 1 eBikes. All eBikes should not be treated equal, there is a reason for the class differentiation.

Actually, for downhill oriented trails an ebike is faster, and handles better. the weight of down low.

 

[Wilhelmson]

The modern thing to do is ask Elon Musk to buy out the NFS and reform it.

 

[Philpug]

The modern thing to do is ask Elon Musk to buy out the NFS and reform it.

He is still only one man.

 

[chilehed]

So basically anyone remotely clever will make absolutely certain their ebike rides are private and off leaderboards.

Ummm... what?

If you can't brag about your ride on Strava, you haven't ridden!

What's Strava? I've ridden countless miles and it's totally irrelavant to me. Always will be, I reckon.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Just thought I'd put this here.

 

[Tom K.]

^^^ I believe it's time for Mrs. K and I to que up our every-five-years-or-so viewing of The Holy Grail.

Thanks @Erik Timmerman!

 

[tromano]

It probably depends a LOT on whether or not there are actual people being paid to enforce such laws at the place where folks are riding. If not, I'd totally just do it anyway if it's really something most people are fine with.. which this seems to be where the Puglises and Minks ride. It sounds like the local MTB community appreciates their efforts there more than frowning on what they use to enjoy the goods.. I doubt anyone would stitch on them there and it sounds like there aren't enforcement authorities there.

As for places where you do encounter rangers fairly frequently.. Just go ride something else there or go somewhere else if they're not allowing that now. Lobby the authorities to reconsider.. I'd think the bike vendors have the most to lose if they can't sell as many bikes. Let's see how it plays out.

Up to $5000 fine or 6 months imprisonment. https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd931414.pdf

 

[crgildart]

Up to $5000 fine or 6 months imprisonment. https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd931414.pdf

Let's see some examples of convictions and sentences.

 

[Hankj]

I've had a class 1 pedal only eMTB bike and a regular mountain bike for years. I think the pro eMTB crowd understates the speed of emtb's up hill. I can absolutely haul ass up steady steep terrain on the eMTB, like 3 times as fast. It's much, much easier to climb. And the eMTB weighs twice as much. It creates more torque and as such is harder on the trails, although nothing remotely close to a dirt bike. The eMTB also creates a danger imo in that there are more users traveling at higher speeds uphill on two way single track. It's easy to have a head on collision.

eMTBs have been banned from nearly all singletrack in my area for a while now. People poach with them though. In the i-90 corridor you'll see large groups of moto-type guys burning up cross country big elevation singletrack like the Ollalie trail, and hauling ass down. The goal is to get up easy and pin it like a downhill course on the return. 8 big guys in a row. They would never be up that trail without the pedal assist. The segment of the eMTB culture in my area that revolves around sled-head types on big bikes is a bummer.

If I was to argue against, I'd say that while many eMTB's are ridden responsibly, the lowering of the effort-tax to get to the downhill parts attracts to more remote trails people who are less likely to behave. They'd be shuttling designated tracks from the backs of pick ups if they didn't have a motor. In the same way that tree-carving disappears a mile in from trailheads, there just aren't many cyclists who aren't going to yield to uphill traffic after a lowest gear 2500' analog climb.

All in all though, eMTB's are great, and I'm on the fence about whether the feds etc should be banning them from forest trails. They are such a nice tool in the hands of reasonable people. And I have no beef with using power to get up a hill per se - lifts and shuttling are really fun. I think the largest opposition is coming from hikers, who mostly still hate sharing with regular mtb's, let alone twice the mass going three times the speed up the hills now too ...

 

[Hankj]

I thought about enforcement as well - our local rangers and cops can't even keep up with the trailhead car prowl smash and grabbers - fat chance they post up on trails and ticket eMTB's.

 

[4ster]

I think the pro eMTB crowd understates they speed of emtb's up hill. I can absolutely haul ass up steady steep terrain on the eMTB, like 3 times as fast. It's much, much easier to climb. And the eMTB weighs twice as much.

^I agree!
My very limited experience on an E-mtb had me pinning it on the climb, it was the funnest thing about it! This was just after doing the same ride on my analog bike & yes, at least 3 times faster.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Why walk up a hill when you can throttle 900 watts?

 

[scott43]

I've had a class 1 pedal only eMTB bike and a regular mountain bike for years. I think the pro eMTB crowd understates the speed of emtb's up hill. I can absolutely haul ass up steady steep terrain on the eMTB, like 3 times as fast. It's much, much easier to climb. And the eMTB weighs twice as much. It creates more torque and as such is harder on the trails, although nothing remotely close to a dirt bike. The eMTB also creates a danger imo in that there are more users traveling at higher speeds uphill on two way single track. It's easy to have a head on collision.

eMTBs have been banned from nearly all singletrack in my area for a while now. People poach with them though. In the i-90 corridor you'll see large groups of moto-type guys burning up cross country big elevation singletrack like the Ollalie trail, and hauling ass down. The goal is to get up easy and pin it like a downhill course on the return. 8 big guys in a row. They would never be up that trail without the pedal assist. The segment of the eMTB culture in my area that revolves around sled-head types on big bikes is a bummer.

If I was to argue against, I'd say that while many eMTB's are ridden responsibly, the lowering of the effort-tax to get to the downhill parts attracts to more remote trails people who are less likely to behave. They'd be shuttling designated tracks from the backs of pick ups if they didn't have a motor. In the same way that tree-carving disappears a mile in from trailheads, there just aren't many cyclists who aren't going to yield to uphill traffic after a lowest gear 2500' analog climb.

All in all though, eMTB's are great, and I'm on the fence about whether the feds etc should be banning them from forest trails. They are such a nice tool in the hands of reasonable people. And I have no beef with using power to get up a hill per se - lifts and shuttling are really fun. I think the largest opposition is coming from hikers, who mostly still hate sharing with regular mtb's, let alone twice the mass going three times the speed up the hills now too ...

Couldn't agree more. 750 watts...think about that.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Or this

New Stark Varg revolutionizes electric dirt bikes with specs that crush gas bikes

A new Swedish electric dirt bike company known as Stark Future has just unveiled the most groundbreaking electric dirt bike...

electrek.co

 

[Andy Mink]

And here's me getting passed by a gravel biker. Not the arrow, the archer.

 

[dbostedo]

How will the existing backcountry skiers respond when there's a new electronic mode of uphill travel somewhere between analog skins and a snowmobile. Will the current backcountry skiers welcome the new e-skiers and gladly share the powder?

 

[4ster]

For instance, there is a huge growth in hunters using ebikes to easily gain 1000s of feel in elevation and much more easily get further from trail heads, futher into the BC than they were before. "You can ride through the woods on an eBike and get closer to your prey, giving you an advantage over other off-road vehicles. An electric bike’s size and agility allow you to stay on trails in dense forests for longer without having to hop off."

This ad just popped up when I opened this page…

 

[cantunamunch]

Couldn't agree more. 750 watts...think about that.

I'm thinking about it - put some fat tires on it and pull me and the skis up hill

 

[Wendy]

^I agree!
My very limited experience on an E-mtb had me pinning it on the climb, it was the funnest thing about it! This was just after doing the same ride on my analog bike & yes, at least 3 times faster.
View attachment 168299

Yeah, I experienced that too. It was fun.

But I’m one of those who enjoys the quad burn and searing lungs feeling on uphill climbs; that creates the endorphin rush at the end for me.