When I read the title of this subject, my immediate thought was because I'm wearing them. Further reading showed it didn't mean what I thought it did.Why can't your ski boots ...
Out with it, why what????
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Why Cant Your Ski Boots
- Thread starter coupdevill
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- canting cants ski boot canting
Noodler I have to disagree here a bit sorry. I do agree the goal is to provide EQUAL ACCESS TO BOTH INSIDE AND OUTSIDE EDGES with knees tracking straight. However; Some stances can be corrected while some must be accommodated. Some skiers while standing in boots on a flat surface present an "A" frame and some present an "O" frame look. Without getting into the weeds on this, suffice it to say in general, someone who presents a lot of tibial varum (bow legged) stance may also have very rigid joints making it not only uncomfortable but impossible to further tip their knees to an inside edge, if their whole range of motion was used up just to get their knee center over the boot center. This scenario requires accommodation rather than correction. So when we see this skier standing on a level bench on the outside edges of their boots and we roll them to flat then see how far they can roll further to engage an inside edge and we see there is little range of motion left available to further tip to an edge, this is an indicator we need to level the boot, or fill the void, so their is congruency between ability to roll to inside and outside edges. This skier will still look bow legged while skiing but will have equal access to both edges. Also, canting under boot should be the last adjustment done on the frontal plane with the first being a good footbed, later cuff adjustment and more extensive mods if needed. SBS or canting inside the boot under foot IS NOT the same as canting externally and don't let anyone tell you it is.
I would also clarify a complete balancing or alignment includes assessing and addressing the sagittal plane as well. This often ignored plane of motion is paramount to fore/aft balance over the skis. As I have mentioned many times before there are four parameters that need to be assessed and coordinated with good methodology to achieve solid fore/aft alignment. Internal ramp angle and forward lean angle need to match dorsiflexion needs, then binding delta and mount position need to be coordinated to optimize lower leg angle and positioning over the sweet spot of skis.
Proper alignment is paramount to optimal skiing performance. I tell skiers before you spend a bunch of money on lessons get your own equipment and get it properly aligned on all planes to minimize impediments to progress caused by equipment. Then you can enjoy and get the most out of any coaching you may seek. Dial in equipment, get your head in the right place "GO intent", improve your fitness, and get good coaching and your skiing will quickly progress! Technique, Equipment, Physiology, Psychology!! Every athlete in every sport focuses on these four areas to constantly improve performance! You should too. Identify your weak areas and focus there to improve this season.
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Thanks for posting this video, I have been a supporter of canting for years. Back when I was working in the business one of the shops I worked in had a machine that used two side by side plates like the one in the video with the level on it. The machine measured both feet at once. It was wired to lights that showed us if you needed a 1, 2, or 3 degree cant. We would then place the wedges between the boot and the plate and show the customer that their stance was flat. Back than we would place the cants between the ski and the bindings. It was a bit of a challenge when mounting the bindings to get longer screws when someone had a three cant. I still have a set of cants that I used with a pair of S 727 bindings and that should tell you how long I have supported canting. (I will try to find a photo of the cants) The binding manufacturers didn't like the wedges between the ski and binding they said it interferes with the operation of the bindings. I never had an issue with it but the manufacturers did, I guess that is why they now cant the boots. I wish I could remember the name of the machine that we used to measure the customers stance, it easy to use and worked well, I can speak from experience about it.
The big disadvantage of canting under the bindings is the skis are relegated to right and left and can't be switched if you burr an edge or like to equalize the wear on your edges and bases.
Or if you don’t want to fly with your skis. But under binding cants are all ya got if your current boots cannot be canted and you don’t want to buy new yet, or you use tech bindings. The later is a biggy.
Well said, Bud, in your reply to Noodler.
That is true, but back when I had cants we used a Left and a Right ski anyway. Today we don't do that so the boot cant is the way to go.
This is the photo I was referring to in this post.
Did we?
In @Tricia and my case, with as many skis as we have to demo, we need the boots canted, so under the binding is not an option.
Regardless what some manufacturers try to tell you, this is NOT canting....
It is cuff alignment...
And this is the worst offender:
It is cuff alignment...
And this is the worst offender:
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I understand, and yes we did, because all the bindings I mounted, I had to put a left ski decal on the left ski. But since I am a lot older than you and @Tricia I understand why you might question what was common practice back in the day.
I now believe that the alignment in the sagittal plane is even more important to achieve high performance skiing. Compensations for poor lateral alignment may not look great on video, but most skiers can usually still ski to a higher level even if their lateral canting is a bit screwed up. However, if their fore/aft is not correct, it makes it much more difficult to get the highest performance out of the skis. Of course this thread is about the lateral, so I'll leave it there.
I also remember before choosing a right and left ski to put the stickers on, we would set the skis up against a wall with tips and tails touching then measure the gap at waist then switch skis and measure again to see which gap was wider and make that our inside edges for a tighter radius.
We obviously believe in the benefits of sole canting (and it's cousin cuff alignment, which you rightly call out the difference above and how some brands STILL don't get it) and we continually incorporate it into our boots with replaceable soles- FYI, we offer canting shims from 0.5°-3.0°, every half degree. Upon joining Atomic (I was a boot-fitter for about 10 years before that), I quickly learned how few shops, globally, invest in proper boot-fitting, especially sole canting. It's less than 10% (probably closer to 5%) on a global scale that do sole canting and the English-speaking world dominates the conversation. Because of this, the vast, vast majority of buying decisions made at the retailer level do not concern themselves with such topics, instead more focusing on design and aesthetics. Creating a flat interface between the boot and grip pad introduces aesthetic limitations on the boot, especially with how much color or different colors can be seen from the side. This may sound trivial to many of you, but in the world of global retail, this is a very important thing. So, our decision to make our own canting shims allows us to offer complete sole canting solutions to the retailers who want to do it and also create boots with the aesthetics that we want.
Atomic's canting kit for their boots that have an articulated sole design is actually very good, as @onenerdykid says, it offers a range from .5-3.0* and what is very interesting is that because say a flat shim like Cantology can be flipped over or reversed for left or right, the Atomic shim is a specific left or right shim. Much time and investment went into this design to have to create not just a mold for each half degree, but two of them, one for left and one for right...all for why they, and most feel is for less than 5% of the shops. I imagine to get that kit green lighted was not an easy process.
How do you all feel about ski width in relation to canting 
Do you have any shops in NJ that are Cantology trained or certified?
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I think canting is a critical part of the alignment process. My own boots have Cantology plates, for example. The video is good and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series, we need more information to keep the process moving forward.
The "moving the ski" versus the "moving the knee" paradox goes way, way back, and as noted above, continues today. Warren Witherell himself reversed his original 1970's approach in the early 90's.
For good reason. Each human body is unique, and the variables of anatomy, equipment type, and snow conditions make it impossible for one approach to be correct.
As Bud observes, correcting (moving the knee) when anatomically impractical might be counterproductive.
Consider that when standing on the hard surface of a ski shop floor, test shims can affect stance, but on soft snow corresponding cants may not. The Eastern skier, or hard snow (ice!) racer, will be affected in different ways than a soft snow skier on 120 mm fats.
Canting is important, but it is the last thing you want to do to a boot, and I've seen plenty of canted boots done polar opposite, likely the static evaluation methods in a shop environment led to erroneous conclusions, or the bootfitter ignored the proper sequencing of alignment and went straight to canting as a solution. Most of the mis-canted boots I've encountered were a result of improper or non existent cuff alignment, which may have led to unequal distribution of pressure during balance evaluations. Also, many bootfiters believe that cuff alignment is used correctivly, which is often problematic in developing skiers.
My analogy comes from a door or window that won't close properly in a house.
From the day excavation starts, if the concrete footing is set on soft or substandard soils, the concrete walls might be poured level, but as soon as the forms are stripped settlement occurs. The framer arrives, notes the slight discrepancy and properly shims each floor to level, but by the time the windows and doors are installed, the openings are slightly off. The door installer shims the door jambs plumb and level, but by the time the painter arrives there are small cracks and gaps. Out comes the sander and some caulk, and voila! All good. For now. But over time, carpenters and painters must continue making constant adjustments to keep the doors closing smoothly.
My opinion is, by the time you've arrived at canting a boot, a skier should have already dialed in ther footbeds, leg length, ramp angle, forward lean, and cuff alignment. And cant ideally after on snow tape strip testing, using video, to avoid erroneous corrections.
Otherwise, you may be looking at a door that won't close properly and thinking the solution is a painter with a power sander and some caulk.
The "moving the ski" versus the "moving the knee" paradox goes way, way back, and as noted above, continues today. Warren Witherell himself reversed his original 1970's approach in the early 90's.
For good reason. Each human body is unique, and the variables of anatomy, equipment type, and snow conditions make it impossible for one approach to be correct.
As Bud observes, correcting (moving the knee) when anatomically impractical might be counterproductive.
Consider that when standing on the hard surface of a ski shop floor, test shims can affect stance, but on soft snow corresponding cants may not. The Eastern skier, or hard snow (ice!) racer, will be affected in different ways than a soft snow skier on 120 mm fats.
Canting is important, but it is the last thing you want to do to a boot, and I've seen plenty of canted boots done polar opposite, likely the static evaluation methods in a shop environment led to erroneous conclusions, or the bootfitter ignored the proper sequencing of alignment and went straight to canting as a solution. Most of the mis-canted boots I've encountered were a result of improper or non existent cuff alignment, which may have led to unequal distribution of pressure during balance evaluations. Also, many bootfiters believe that cuff alignment is used correctivly, which is often problematic in developing skiers.
My analogy comes from a door or window that won't close properly in a house.
From the day excavation starts, if the concrete footing is set on soft or substandard soils, the concrete walls might be poured level, but as soon as the forms are stripped settlement occurs. The framer arrives, notes the slight discrepancy and properly shims each floor to level, but by the time the windows and doors are installed, the openings are slightly off. The door installer shims the door jambs plumb and level, but by the time the painter arrives there are small cracks and gaps. Out comes the sander and some caulk, and voila! All good. For now. But over time, carpenters and painters must continue making constant adjustments to keep the doors closing smoothly.
My opinion is, by the time you've arrived at canting a boot, a skier should have already dialed in ther footbeds, leg length, ramp angle, forward lean, and cuff alignment. And cant ideally after on snow tape strip testing, using video, to avoid erroneous corrections.
Otherwise, you may be looking at a door that won't close properly and thinking the solution is a painter with a power sander and some caulk.
Our products have been part of the MasterFit curriculum for the last 10 years. So look for bootfitters with their cert. As for NJ, Ski Barn shops in Paramus and Wayne (aka Heino’s) buy from us. With shop employee turnover (and now COVID), the only way we can tell that a shop is active is by our sales records.
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